klacr Strokes

[gzhpcu]

What's the problem? I did it and I am no spring chicken. It is just to get to know each other. We aren't Federer, et al. We all enjoy tennis. Why should anyone jump on anyone else?

[stotty]

It would be interesting if all giving advice were to post videos of their strokes...

More than happy to do this. In fact, I have here and there in the past. The thing is I am not sure anyone would be interested or that there would be any point. Who wants to see and man in his 50s with an old fashioned game like me? I am in demise. Better I recruit the expertise on the forum to analyse my younger students who are going places. I will post one such any day now.

Kyle knew the deal before posting his strokes. He seems to have taken everything in his stride...rather admirably I think. The bottom line is it's fun, good fun. And we all get to learn something along the way.

Like I said I am happy to post my strokes. I have no shame whatsoever about my game. My game was very orthodox in its time. It's just I cannot see the point in someone my age posting his game...

[bottle]

So people could jump all over them and feel superior and make them feel bad. If one just had a video of the single time in one's life when one played the best-- that would be different. Me and Hepburn beating our brothers. Why should I settle for less? Instead of posting videos of the limping me, (which my partner Hope who is good with a camera is all in favor of by the way), I'd rather do a lot of self-feed and tennis introspection to try to get back to the short angles I hit that day when encouraged by Kate.

[don_budge]

?

It would be interesting if all giving advice were to post videos of their strokes...

Why is that?

[gzhpcu]

It would be interesting if all giving advice were to post videos of their strokes...

[klacr]

So I'm not sure. If the sacrificing seal is the hero, do we really want to be that hero? Don't think that analogy quite holds up. I don't think we've ripped anyone up here quite that harshly on the forum.

Anyway, ...
Kyle,
20 years ago, I was in your current neighborhood looking for a job somewhere in Florida. I ended up working for Palmer Tennis Academy in your neck of the woods back then. You were perhaps playing the 12's or 14's when I was chaperoning some kids from Palmer at tourneys in the Tampa area in the spring of 1995 during the 9 weeks I worked for them.

There was a drill the kids did that I previously had not paid much attention to, but I had to learn to execute it to work in occasionally on the drills with the academy students I was supervising. I probably didn't have as good a forehand as you do, but I also had a lifelong problem with hitting the forehand too flat (actually continental grip, in fact) and generally it was a major weakness my whole career and I didn't really know why. At that point, I had already been playing tennis over 30 years and had a gold ball and a couple of number one sectional rankings in doubles, but it was pretty common knowledge among my opponents that you just needed to get the ball to my forehand under pressure.

In retrospect, I now know that my big problem was not getting below the ball. And doing this drill was the best thing I ever found to get the feeling of getting below the ball and hitting up and through it properly, holding on to the ball as you impart the necessary spin and not just flicking around the ball with no pace or penetration on the shot.

So here is the drill:
Two players work the ball crosscourt, keeping the ball landing in the singles court, just hitting the ball smoothly with a calm stroke, with topspin of course,but not a reverse forehand. Doesn't sound like much. Oh, yeah, I have to add this... both players are standing as close to the net as possible and trying to get the ball to land as close to the net as possible. Obviously, the ball is not hit at full speed, but it is a full stroke. It's not a contest exactly, but the object of the drill is to keep your hitting partner closer to the net than you are. Both players will basically be standing outside the doubles court or at least in the alleys as the ball is hit back and forth in a path as close to parallel to the net as possible. You have to learn to lift the ball up and out over the net and let it fall into the court. It's murder for the mirror image of this drill on the backhand side, especially for a one-handed backhand. To be perfectly clear, when I do this with another right handed player, we go from deuce to deuce for the forehand and ad to ad for the backhand. If it is a righty and a lefty, then you have to do forehand to backhand - very tough!
Give it a try. I'm sure you have done this drill at some point, but you may not have realized how effective it is. I wish I had learned it while I was still young enough to move. I think it is a terrific drill to help a player like yourself (or me) get the feel of getting below the ball.

Please let me know how it works for you.

don

Not saying the seal is the hero or the shark is the villain. No one has ripped anyone up that badly. What I am saying is that sometimes opening yourself up and leaving yourself vulnerable can be of great benefit for not just you but everyone else and continues the learning process for days, weeks, months, years to come.

Ah yes, Palmer Academy. I know the place well. Great drill Don. I've played that before. I'm actually a big fan of this drill, mini-tennis games, and everything done inside the service boxes. Funny thing is, I can generate top spin during drills like this. It only becomes an issue when I move back to the baseline, pace quickens and my reaction is to drive through the ball to keep it deep and penetrating which I do. Only when the ball approaches me slowly do I feel comfortable hitting with heavy spin and therefore in a competitive rally I tend to flatten my shots out in a rush to send the ball back.

I'm doing this drill again today. No doubt it can help me. Just need to take that calmness and feel and translate it back to baseline

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[tennis_chiro]

Do we want to be the seal or the shark?

So I'm not sure. If the sacrificing seal is the hero, do we really want to be that hero? Don't think that analogy quite holds up. I don't think we've ripped anyone up here quite that harshly on the forum.

Anyway, ...
Kyle,
20 years ago, I was in your current neighborhood looking for a job somewhere in Florida. I ended up working for Palmer Tennis Academy in your neck of the woods back then. You were perhaps playing the 12's or 14's when I was chaperoning some kids from Palmer at tourneys in the Tampa area in the spring of 1995 during the 9 weeks I worked for them.

There was a drill the kids did that I previously had not paid much attention to, but I had to learn to execute it to work in occasionally on the drills with the academy students I was supervising. I probably didn't have as good a forehand as you do, but I also had a lifelong problem with hitting the forehand too flat (actually continental grip, in fact) and generally it was a major weakness my whole career and I didn't really know why. At that point, I had already been playing tennis over 30 years and had a gold ball and a couple of number one sectional rankings in doubles, but it was pretty common knowledge among my opponents that you just needed to get the ball to my forehand under pressure.

In retrospect, I now know that my big problem was not getting below the ball. And doing this drill was the best thing I ever found to get the feeling of getting below the ball and hitting up and through it properly, holding on to the ball as you impart the necessary spin and not just flicking around the ball with no pace or penetration on the shot.

So here is the drill:
Two players work the ball crosscourt, keeping the ball landing in the singles court, just hitting the ball smoothly with a calm stroke, with topspin of course,but not a reverse forehand. Doesn't sound like much. Oh, yeah, I have to add this... both players are standing as close to the net as possible and trying to get the ball to land as close to the net as possible. Obviously, the ball is not hit at full speed, but it is a full stroke. It's not a contest exactly, but the object of the drill is to keep your hitting partner closer to the net than you are. Both players will basically be standing outside the doubles court or at least in the alleys as the ball is hit back and forth in a path as close to parallel to the net as possible. You have to learn to lift the ball up and out over the net and let it fall into the court. It's murder for the mirror image of this drill on the backhand side, especially for a one-handed backhand. To be perfectly clear, when I do this with another right handed player, we go from deuce to deuce for the forehand and ad to ad for the backhand. If it is a righty and a lefty, then you have to do forehand to backhand - very tough!
Give it a try. I'm sure you have done this drill at some point, but you may not have realized how effective it is. I wish I had learned it while I was still young enough to move. I think it is a terrific drill to help a player like yourself (or me) get the feel of getting below the ball.

Please let me know how it works for you.

don

[klacr]

Doing my best. Maybe not for me, but for someone who could benefit

Not really about the ego. It's about learning, improving and maybe helping others along the way with their own game. No one on the forum has been slaughtering of my game. Surprisingly, just the opposite. Many have been complimentary. Relative to what I deal with in my day jobs, this forum is tame.

I love tennis and love learning. But above all else, As many compliments as I have received on my game, I'm still leaving a lot on the table in my forehand and serve. And I don't like to leave anything left on the table, ask those who have dined with me .

The goal is to improve shots that for all intensive purposes are better than the typical club hacker. Shots that many people would be grateful to have in their own arsenal does not mean I should settle. Am I satisfied? Not even close. Grateful? Absolutely. But underachieving for my capabilities, absolutely unacceptable. Time to improve a forehand and serve. What other alternative do we have?

I'm putting myself out there. Quick story...

A few years back I took a trip to Africa. South Africa to be specific. Cape Town. Why? So I could jump in the water...with great whites. Charter a boat, Put on a wet suit, throw out some chum, hop in the cage and see some really big hungry fish rattle the cage. A few miles off the coast of Cape Town, South Africa, where the Atlantic Ocean waters meet the Indian Ocean, there is a small dot of land called Seal Island. On this island, there are an enormous number of seals that inhabit it. Unfortunately for them, there are a large number of great whites circling the island. The Sharks know the seals are on the island are weighing their options. Seals either starve to death as a group or one or two gather the bravery to venture in waters to eat but most likely be eaten. The seals know the sharks are in the water, hungry and and nothing but time on their hands. Eventually, there is a seal that decides he's going in. But not to eat. He goes in knowing his fate will not be met with a peaceful ending. He goes in to submit himself to a shark so other seals may have a chance to grab a quick sardine or anchovy before its too late for them. The whole colony of seals can feast because of a few select seals willingness to do what has to be done. At the end of the day, everyone gets better and life continues on the island. The other seals learn, recognize and respect. The sharks feed, recognize and respect.

Make of that story what you will.

Now let's get back to tennis. I'm getting better. Because of you.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

Not many have tough enough egos for forum slaughterers.

[klacr]

yes. This is going to be a tougher and longer journey than I expected. Oh the joys of not knowing any better .

It's a process for sure. Frustrating but eye opening and learning experience. The more video I watch of myself the more I see how far I'm off. The more video I watch of other players, the more I know I can do it and I have something special. What that is I don't know yet. But it's something.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Potential equals Room for Improvement

don_budge,

thanks for seeing some potential.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

You got it Bro. My dear old coach used to preach that potential meant room for improvement and this is a blessing. The up side of this venture of yours is huge…like that sturdy frame of yours. This experience is going to enrich you as a teacher and as a student.

Again…thanks for sharing. For having the balls to demonstrate to the rest of us what it means to be a student of the game embarking on the path to be a true master. Reminding us that the longest journey begins with a single step. As 10splayer says…it takes humility and class. Both attributes that you have in abundance.

My old Aunt Gloria…the one who took tennis lessons from Vic Braden down in old Ottawa Park in Toledo, Ohio used to say something to me about PMA…positive mental attitude and how important it was. Good old Vic seemed to always be so positive…to the point of being sort of silly. Almost. At least that is how he appeared in those old television spots in the late 60's an early 70's.

Gloria used to emphasize the three D's also. Dedication, Desire and Determination.

The key is that step towards the ball. Getting that front foot into position enables you to get your weight forwards in the direction of the ball and then to hold it there throughout your swing. That's balance! Position three when the ball bounces sets you up for "get in position" to step towards the ball. Position four is where you make your move towards the ball. Bend your knees and sit down into your seat. Engage those muscles in your legs and thighs to drive into the ball. Go forwards to meet it. Get under it a bit…like Welby suggests. Get below it and drive up and through it.

This is going to be fun. Great work…you have gone that ONE STEP UP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkFQHScyti0

It's tough…but you are a tough guy.

[klacr]

don_buge,

thanks for seeing some potential.

To answer your eye question, I am left eye dominant.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Patience…One Step Up and Two Steps Back

Need some more reps. Forehand is taking one step back to take two steps forward. Just feels weird. Huge variance of shot quality today. Gotta keep at it.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkFQHScyti0

It's ok Kyle…I know how that feels. So does Bruce. Let's face it…we are all losers in some way or another. Bruce of course is singing about love. Come on…love means nothing to a tennis player. A little play on words.

Of course it matters. But you must be prepared to go one step up and two steps back. It's the nature of life. The give and take.

Forget about hope. It's a nebulous term. There is nothing to hang your hat on. Just remember the last joker who promised you "hope and change". Tell 'em the big lie…that's what he said. Campaign slogans are made of such drivel.

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

Have faith…there's magic in the night.

I see signs…that's what I see. I see them all of the time. Lately all I see are bad signs…and I am not talking about your tennis here. But...I'm waiting for johnyandell to come up with the translation to HD before I get started. There is some internal disconnect on your right side…something that isn't present on your left side. It all starts with the way that you place your feet. I want to ask which is you dominant eye…just for conversations sake. While we are waiting. It's cool Bro…I like the H&M outfit. It suits you…one of a kind in South Florida.

You said it…I have said it a million times. I don't get tired of repeating myself. It's about engagement. The fact of the matter is that right now you do not have the engagement on the right side that you naturally do on the left. But as I said…I see signs and you have definitely taken a step up, if not two steps back. That's ok…that's how it is. It's the nature of the beast. Perseverance…as opposed to hope. There is no hope…there is only what we can control. You can do it! That's what I tell the kids all of the time.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

As a matter of fact…it all begins with one step forwards just as Roger demonstrates. It's that step towards the ball with the left foot that gets the process going. Then it transfers into the legs, then hips and shoulders, working its way through your arm into the wrist and hand or racquet head (they are interchangeable as the racquet is an extension of the hand). Keeping that right foot down as John has eloquently expressed in his pair of articles regarding recovery steps.

Forehand Front slo mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S13SbXk2cA8

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

As I said earlier…you do take that one step up at times…see your slow motion front view…swings 4, 5 and 6 I think it is. With proper placement of the feet then we can address the actual swing…not before. If it's hope you are looking for…look at these three swings. This is the beginning of your evolution…your adaption. When that foot is down and in place the hips are lined up to do the work that Ben Hogan emphasizes as the "most important part of the golf swing".

Try a little ping pong while we are waiting…and work against the wall. Get that foot position against the wall…you won't have time for that back foot to come swinging through. You will be too busy and too hurried getting ready for that next ball. That will force you to abbreviate your motion a bit. Reduce the height of that backswing…afterall we are trying to get the racquet head below the ball. Why start out so high? This is another myth…particularly so for such a tall man. In the meantime…while we are waiting for the HD. Have patience young man. Patience is a virtue you know. There is so little virtue in the world these days.

I'm just thinking…poetically speaking.

[GeoffWilliams]

HOpe is a powerful thing. Short term form can damage a dependable shot. That is just short term adaptation. The form is not permanent, and the final form won't be either. Can't teach a middle aged dog a new forehand, especially if he has not inverted, neck wrapped, chest coiled, and snap backed since childhood. You cannot do it Kyle. The difference is in the rigid wrist at impact. If the wrist gets out in front of the shot, it is not firm at impact, and the shot has no pop. Tough to keep that wrist solid, but that's what the chest coil to the left net post is all about, forcing the contact to be a little later so the wrist is firmer and the angle at impact is 90 degrees at wrist, not 45.

[GeoffWilliams]

HOpe is a powerful thing. Short term form can damage a dependable shot. That is just short term adaptation. The form is not permanent, and the final form won't be either. Can't teach a middle aged dog a new forehand, especially if he has not inverted, neck wrapped, chest coiled, and snap backed.