klacr Strokes

[don_budge]

Pancho Segura's two handed forehand…and the one hand forehand

I'm staying with one-hand on all strokes. Don't worry Geoff. No doubt I see what don_budge is saying with some elements of the shoulder turn and footwork on the two-hander. But yes, looking to maximize the forehand, take it to next level. All other shots get me my fair share of opportunities and points, despite their imperfections. But the forehand is certainly the pink elephant in my game.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

…and what it can teach us about forehand mechanics. Fundamentals. Good thinking…definitely some elements of shoulder turn and footwork. But what else could good old don_budge be getting at? 10splayer knows. So does tennis_chiro. Golfers understand. bottle does too.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

This is an exercise to get you to come to the ball from the "inside path"…instead of going "over the top". Roger is attacking this ball from the inside path…that is his hand is coming down the line of his feet and not over the top.

There is definitely method to my "madness".

[don_budge]

Pancho Segura's two handed forehand…and the one hand forehand

…and what it can teach us about forehand mechanics. Fundamentals. Good thinking…definitely some elements of shoulder turn and footwork. But what else could good old don_budge be getting at? 10splayer knows. So does tennis_chiro. Golfers understand. bottle does too.

This is an exercise to get you to come to the ball from the "inside path"…instead of going "over the top".

There is definitely method to my "madness".

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

As a teacher of tennis you are by proxy a student of the game. This is a little jewel of an article as I believe the author does a super job of describing what was once heralded as the best single stroke in tennis. It won't hurt to ponder this one a bit. I have found that getting students that are not very "engaged" with the left side of their bodies can prosper from the exercise of hitting two handed forehands. Two handed forehand volleys is another way to get the beginner to engage with the left handed side of their bodies.

Once you are in position to go forwards the initial action is a bit of a pull. As in bottle's recent video…there was some discussion of pulling the butt cap of the racquet to the ball. But the thing is that you should pull simultaneously with both sides of the body…as Roger Federer does. Even if your left hand is not actually on the racquet. When I look at that wondrous forehand of Roger…his Fedefore…I see him pulling with his whole entire being on that racquet handle and then just letting the rotation of his shoulders take care of the rest. The pull is as if someone is holding on to your racquet…then they let go and the swing comes swooshing through.

Another thing that the second hand on the racquet will do is limit the scope of the backswing. There is no reason for the racquet to be above the head on the backswing…again as Roger Federer demonstrates.

There is much to be gleaned from this little intellectual exercise if for nothing more than increasing the scope of you abilities as a teacher. I will bet that they don't teach this in the USTA certified teaching courses. Just an idea…a little food for thought. don_budge style.

[GeoffWilliams]

The real issue is that it's not a natural shot. That means, the wrist is not solid during contact, but broken forward too much usually. Not enough coil ala Tberd. Since the coil is not there, contact is too far out in front, and the wrist is already gone so the impact is puffy more often than not. More coil, a later contact, a solid wrist will impart more force into the string bed.

[klacr]

don_budge,

can't speak for USTA,

But they don't teach it in USPTA courses...or at least...not yet.

We're working on it.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...tanceFront.mov

As a teacher of tennis you are by proxy a student of the game. This is a little jewel of an article as I believe the author does a super job of describing what was once heralded as the best single stroke in tennis. It won't hurt to ponder this one a bit. I have found that getting students that are not very "engaged" with the left side of their bodies can prosper from the exercise of hitting two handed forehands. Two handed forehand volleys is another way to get the beginner to engage with the left handed side of their bodies.

Once you are in position to go forwards the initial action is a bit of a pull. As in bottle's recent video…there was some discussion of pulling the butt cap of the racquet to the ball. But the thing is that you should pull simultaneously with both sides of the body…as Roger Federer does. Even if your left hand is not actually on the racquet. When I look at that wondrous forehand of Roger…his Fedefore…I see him pulling with his whole entire being on that racquet handle and then just letting the rotation of his shoulders take care of the rest. The pull is as if someone is holding on to your racquet…then they let go and the swing comes swooshing through.

Another thing that the second hand on the racquet will do is limit the scope of the backswing. There is no reason for the racquet to be above the head on the backswing…again as Roger Federer demonstrates.

There is much to be gleaned from this little intellectual exercise if for nothing more than increasing the scope of you abilities as a teacher. I will bet that they don't teach this in the USTA certified teaching courses. Just an idea…a little food for thought. don_budge style.

More use of my left arm as I use it help pull my racquet head out and through the shot. In video of my forehand, my left arm is just left hanging with no purpose. In the Federer clip, he makes full use out of it.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[christwilliam]

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[doctorhl]

For a Measly Buckthe best Bang for the Buck



Forehand first. One thing at a time. More than likely you are trying to get yourself lined up like Roger Federer. This represents a huge change in the rhythm of your stroke and it sort of makes sense with the comment that you make about huge variance of shot quality.

In order to dial in on the "consistency" and rhythm of the stroke…that is, repeating the same motion over and over identically without variation please try the following.

In Sweden the word for bounce is "studs" and the word for five is "fem". So here is the six step process for hitting the "Federfore". Look at the Roger Federer video clip to verify the various positions of feet and body and racquet as you get your ducks in a row to move forwards into the shot and finish:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

1 Ready position…in your case you know it is a forehand so cheat to the side of forehand with your grip, your racquet and your body balance.

2 Set the racquet…turn with the shoulders so that the racquet face is facing the oncoming ball that has just left the face of your opponents racquet. The strings are the eyes of the racquet and they are searching for the ball just as your own eyes are.

3 Bounce position…turn your shoulders so that the racquet face is facing the wall or fence ninety degrees to the net. You already do this very nicely.

4 Get in position…this is the position where you are ready to go forwards. Merely sit a bit more into your seat and allow the racquet to come down from you high backswing…some say "pat the dog". I do not…I go with the Ben Hogan explanation for using the lower body. Pay attention to where you place your feet.

5 Racquet meets ball…there is one point in time and space where it will be perfect for all of your motion to meet the ball for that "sweet" shot feeling. Super important that you recognize this magic moment. Another issue that you have created by altering your swing…there is a new sweet spot. You might want to experiment with strengthening your grip here in order to find this new sweet spot. The old grip tends to encourage a less than forward ball impact position.

6 Follow through…Keep your eye on the ball for a count of one after you hit the ball so that your shoulder will stop turning and your arm and racquet will come swinging through the ball. Holding that back foot down or doing the Welby Van Horn Swivel.

The Nike Swoosh…you know the symbol. That symbolizes the swing in any sport. At the point just before your racquet meet the ball the racquet should be making that "swooshing" sound…that is where you want to meet the ball every single time. When the racquet has maximum acceleration through the path of the ball.

For the rhythm end of it you are going to say out loud or say to yourself if you feel self-conscious…but you don't and you are going to be passing on this great advice to every single student.

When the ball bounces you shall say "studs" and have your racquet at least back in position 3 where the racquet face and your shoulders (and hips) are perpendicular to the net. Then when you find the "magic moment" you are going to say "fem" every time your racquet comes into contact with the ball.

You will be surprised how this will help to train you to watch the ball. You want to say "studs" precisely at the moment when the ball strikes the court. You want to say "fem" precisely at the moment when the ball meets your racquet. The verbal confirmations will mark these beats in the swing and shortly you should find yourself with a nice repeating "swoosh" through the ball. You can further take this verbal reminder to another step with the student by having them say "split" when the opponents racquet meets the ball. This is a big challenge to the student to "keep their eye on the ball" during the entire flight and path of the ball. Also a higher level of concentration is reached when you try to be more and more precise with the timing of the audio and the timing of the impact of the ball on the ground and on your racquet. don_budges inner tennis.

I find that a very interesting aspect of this exercise is that it has really helped me to stay with the ball when it bounces and after that to my racquet. I tend to lose sight of the ball when it bounces…almost as if I flinch. Particularly on my backhand. But after doing this exercise it has helped me to train my eyes on the ball throughout the whole process.

People are different. For instance…for some reason I am able to make a swing change in my golf swing on the practice tee and able to take it directly to the course. Others have to practice a bit more. The key is to understanding what is to be accomplished before you begin to work on something. Visualization…imagination. This will enable you to find the goal quicker.

I have tried to explain as best I can…but often the words must be accompanied with demonstration in which case you might want to book a private lesson with me when you make it to Europe. Maybe you can make do with the Federer clip. Food for thought…Bro. It will cost you one American dollar.

I just happened upon this old post connected to this thread. I suggested the ” bounce” and “ hit” cues (instead of “ studs” “fem”) to friends as a way to QUICKLY adjust the rhythm from hard to soft courts( or vice versa). I just received that glazed look. This thread is good! I just can’t open the video links that were posted.

[klacr]

Crazy to see this thread regain some life.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

[don_budge]

I just happened upon this old post connected to this thread. I suggested the ” bounce” and “ hit” cues (instead of “ studs” “fem”) to friends as a way to QUICKLY adjust the rhythm from hard to soft courts( or vice versa). I just received that glazed look. This thread is good! I just can’t open the video links that were posted.

Crazy to see this thread regain some life.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

Yes...that was a great thread. Courtesy of klacr offering himself up as a sacrifice. Or was it? klacr got a whale of a conversation going and all the while he at least acted as if he was paying studious attention. He is either a great actor...or a fine student of the game of tennis. Willing to switch positions as a student.

We used to have a lot of really, really interesting threads and conversation. Not that we don't now. But look at the tallies on this thread..."klacr Strokes". 262 posts and 3,775 views. That's a lot of air. Some of it "hot air" but generally all in the interest of interesting conversation and genuine interest in our fair haired boy...klacr. It has been great to have you on board as of late doctorhl...too bad you weren't here somewhat earlier. Hard to believe that this thread was some six years ago. Almost to the day.

It's a great drill though. Focusing on the bounce and the hit. All points in between.

[klacr]

Yes...that was a great thread. Courtesy of klacr offering himself up as a sacrifice. Or was it? klacr got a whale of a conversation going and all the while he at least acted as if he was paying studious attention. He is either a great actor...or a fine student of the game of tennis. Willing to switch positions as a student.

We used to have a lot of really, really interesting threads and conversation. Not that we don't now. But look at the tallies on this thread..."klacr Strokes". 262 posts and 3,775 views. That's a lot of air. Some of it "hot air" but generally all in the interest of interesting conversation and genuine interest in our fair haired boy...klacr. It has been great to have you on board as of late doctorhl...too bad you weren't here somewhat earlier. Hard to believe that this thread was some six years ago. Almost to the day.

It's a great drill though. Focusing on the bounce and the hit. All points in between.

"Fair haired". Not much hair left!
It was a great thread and my forehand certainly improved from it. Grateful to everyone that chimed in.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

[glacierguy]

If I'm feeling a little "off" in my timing, I'll do the 1-2-3-4 drill in my head, or out loud, which seems similar to the studs-fern approach.
1 is my hit
2 is the bounce on opponent's side (by which time I should have recovered)
3 is opponent's hit (when I split)
4 is bounce on my side (when I should be behind the ball)
Repeat

Sometimes this can really help.

[J011yroger]

"Fair haired". Not much hair left!

I just tell myself it's one less thing to worry about!

J

[arturohernandez]

"Fair haired". Not much hair left!
It was a great thread and my forehand certainly improved from it. Grateful to everyone that chimed in.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

I tried opening up the videos but the links were did. I am a bit late to the party but can someone repost links so I can join in.

[don_budge]

I tried opening up the videos but the links were did. I am a bit late to the party but can someone repost links so I can join in.

Wouldn't that be something. This thread had a life of its own. Great to see arturohernandez and doctorhl breathing some life back into it. It was breathing for a month on its own and heavily trafficked. That is the way we rolled here...once upon a time.

[stroke]

Reading over this vintage thread, it comes to mind we miss 10splayer. He knew his stuff, no nonsense.