klacr Strokes

[klacr]

Notice too that your right shoulder never changes it's level to where it is below the level of the left shoulder…particularly at impact.[/B] Very unHoganesque.

So in the end the swing becomes more of an arm swing which is much more dicey to time. The arm is rarely in perfect synch with the shoulders...in golf they say never let the arms get ahead of the shoulders. Hogan is also preaching that you should never let your shoulders get ahead of your hips.

I only meant this as an exercise in teaching tennis. I am not trying to tell you how to hit a forehand or anything else for that manner. It was a step by step approach in observing, identifying, analyzing and attempting to resolve an issue. This is only my way of sharing with others in the hope that something I say might trigger some thought in their noodle or inspire them with some particular student.

This is in no way meant to offend anybody…but if it helps just one person then it helps me. Thanks so much for posting your strokes. It's very, very generous of you. It was a great exercise for me. A great challenge. I have some ideas about each and every one of your strokes…some food for thought.

Still saying same advice initially. From front what I see is lack of gravity drop. On the forward swing your elbow is initially quite bent and changes drastically for contact. Love the contact don't love the forward swing. Racket face is slightly open approaching contact. Windshield wiper is slightly off need to use more internal rotation than what appears to be forearm pronation. Wrist needs to stay some what in extension thru wiper with some radial deviation or movement towards the thumb.

don_budge,

I hear your words loud and clear. This makes so much sense to me. I went out on the ball machine quickly and just tried it. What a difference. Can I replicate it naturally yet? Nope. But will I? Yes. I have the image of Federer ingrained in my head and will continue to work on it. I am a perfectionist. For so long people would always say I use to much arm on my forehand. Personally, I never felt like I was, it didn't seem that way and my arm never felt fatigued or overexerted. But seeing my strokes on camera I pick up on what it is you are saying.

This is a great tip and I appreciate you and everyone else sharing their knowledge. Geoff, stroke,
10splayer, Phil, Stotty, botttle and anyone I forget to mention I'm sorry.

This post has been up for less than 3 days and already received a boat load of views and replies. Most on just my forehand. Which is scary, but in a good way.

Your compliments and critiques of my strokes are humbling and a bit surprising for how many of you loved the quirkiness of my serve. I guess we are our own worst crtics of our own game.

don_budge, thanks for the lesson. No offense taken. You say you're not telling me how to hit a forehand, but clearly you are, and I love that. If you have opinions on my other shots, and I know you have opinions, let me hear them. Thats how we all learn and get better. It may help much more than just me. maybe some subscribers in the shadows are reading this and having an "a-ha" moment as well.

Stroke and 10splayer, Your input has not gone unnoticed. Thank you thank you thank you.
No one before you guys and this website have tried to figure out my forehand or other strokes. Just the vague comments that are obvious to see such as "you hit very flat" and "you need to hit more spin" and my personal favorite "just change your grip and swing higher". Uhhhh....Thanks but no thanks. The sign of a good teacher is being able to explain the the purpose for the adjustment and how "we" (Student and teacher are a team working on same goal) are going to accomplish it. My strokes came from watching TV and did what I saw my favorite players do but obviously with my own unique LaCroix twist.
Let's keep it up. You guys should do this for a living

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bobbyswift]

Still saying same advice initially. From front what I see is lack of gravity drop. On the forward swing your elbow is initially quite bent and changes drastically for contact. Love the contact don't love the forward swing. Racket face is slightly open approaching contact. Windshield wiper is slightly off need to use more internal rotation than what appears to be forearm pronation. Wrist needs to stay some what in extension thru wiper with some radial deviation or movement towards the thumb.

[klacr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXqLZJQ4Emg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OkITdLTSo

In nearly every one of the forehands that you posted your front foot never comes close to stepping over the line...the line from your back toe to the net. As a consequence you do not turn your hips more than superficially. As a consequence of this your swing is an over compensation with your shoulders without any turbo boosting from the hips. First the feet…then the hips…and then the shoulders.

It is sort of difficult to duplicate the stop at the 13 second mark that I was suggesting but when I did it it showed that your racquet was up in position and your shoulders had already prematurely rotated leaving your racquet and hand up in the air. Notice too that your right shoulder never changes it's level to where it is below the level of the left shoulder…particularly at impact. Very unHoganesque.

So in the end the swing becomes more of an arm swing which is much more dicey to time. The arm is rarely in perfect synch with the shoulders...in golf they say never let the arms get ahead of the shoulders. Hogan is also preaching that you should never let your shoulders get ahead of your hips.

Bingo!!!

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

Kyle, as I am sure you know, I am not a advocating a Sergi type forehand. I, like 10splayer was suggesting, think maybe that the wiping action(upper arm and forearm pronation at and through contact, similar to the upper arm rotation up and through the serve at contact) is more important to the spin component on the modern forehand than the steepness of the swing path. You may even already be doing this. It is hard to tell without high speed video. I would like to see some video of your kick serves. I love your motion. Do you ever play any USTA matches, and if you do, what level?

I gotcha stroke. Sergi Bruguera I'm not.

I don't play in USTA leagues but I do hit with various pros in my area and compete on a Friday pro league but that's only doubles so I don't get to show off my groundstrokes too much. The best playing member at my club (besides Aaron Krickstein) is a former Emory player that won a national title in college. We are same age and I can compete with him. The members that claim they are 5.0 I can beat comfortably in span of one hour, which makes for a tidy 60 minute tennis lesson. I'm not really looking to compete per se, but just wanted to get my forehand firing with a bit more spin, but not excessive where i will lose pace, depth and penetration.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

Kyle,
Your friend Vic Braden advocated the minimal toss. He recommended it in his book "Tennis 2000"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42STJgl2K4E

Vic Braden liked my serve when he saw it 10 years ago. It has changed aesthetically since then but the major points are still there.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

Ivo lead the tour in aces for six years. No one else for more than three. (Becker.) Sampras for only two years. This thread, with 635 views in a couple of days has set a record for the most views in the least amount of time! Your attacking style, and quick serving motion, is designed for a big man who enjoys net domination, and should not be changed much. The best thing about your serve, the quickness and fluid motion, (a double bow, one back, and one forwards), can be added to the ground strokes: more fluid rhythmic motion and fluid weight transfer, more "body fly" shots, more knee bend, more commitment into attacking the shot with a little higher margin of safety. More coil, not less coil. More forward wt. transfer, not less. A deeper knee bend on hitting foot, not less! More bow back, and more bow forwards. It's the flatter topspin that penetrates and stays lower for the net men.

When they try the spinny top, they get passed easily. (Raonic.)

[don_budge]

To Kyle…Food for Thought.

I only meant this as an exercise in teaching tennis. I am not trying to tell you how to hit a forehand or anything else for that manner. It was a step by step approach in observing, identifying, analyzing and attempting to resolve an issue. This is only my way of sharing with others in the hope that something I say might trigger some thought in their noodle or inspire them with some particular student.

This is in no way meant to offend anybody…but if it helps just one person then it helps me. Thanks so much for posting your strokes. It's very, very generous of you. It was a great exercise for me. A great challenge. I have some ideas about each and every one of your strokes…some food for thought.

[don_budge]

The Fix...don_budge style

Once you understand the position that Federer has assumed at the bounce of the ball...at click number 43...you realize that this is the position that you want to be at when you start your move to the ball.

I tell the student to say “bounce” at the precise instant that the ball bounces and I keep reminding them that they must have this position on the ball when the ball bounces. In my 6 step positions for hitting a forehand this is position number 3. Then you must visualize your position when you are making impact with the ball...in Roger’s case it is click 53 or so. For the student this is position number 5. Ball contact position.

When the ball bounces I have the student say “stuts” (bounce in Swedish) when the ball precisely makes contact with the court...and I have them say “fem” (five in Swedish) when they make contact with the ball. By verbal announcing where they are at in relationship with the ball while visualizing their proper position it helps them to “time” the swing.

Kyle...if you can come to the ball with your front foot in position just as the ball bounces and learn to rotate your hips into the ball...think pulling on a rope with both hands you can get your racquet below the ball and come up and through it very nicely.

Position three...feet in Federer position. Shoulders on the same line as the feet. Racquet face and strings facing the wall in front of them. The three lines…the three dots. Connecting the dots.

Stuts, fem...stuts, fem...stuts, fem...stuts, fem...

[don_budge]

The Kyle LaCroix Forehand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXqLZJQ4Emg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OkITdLTSo

In nearly every one of the forehands that you posted your front foot never comes close to stepping over the line...the line from your back toe to the net. As a consequence you do not turn your hips more than superficially. As a consequence of this your swing is an over compensation with your shoulders without any turbo boosting from the hips. First the feet…then the hips…and then the shoulders.

It is sort of difficult to duplicate the stop at the 13 second mark that I was suggesting but when I did it it showed that your racquet was up in position and your shoulders had already prematurely rotated leaving your racquet and hand up in the air. Notice too that your right shoulder never changes it's level to where it is below the level of the left shoulder…particularly at impact. Very unHoganesque.

So in the end the swing becomes more of an arm swing which is much more dicey to time. The arm is rarely in perfect synch with the shoulders...in golf they say never let the arms get ahead of the shoulders. Hogan is also preaching that you should never let your shoulders get ahead of your hips.

[don_budge]

Nobody says it better...than Ben Hogan. As Hogan said to Federer...

From Roger Federer...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

To Ben Hogan. Here...listen to this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0

“Well the most important thing in the golf swing to me is the movement from the lower body from the top of the swing...and if you don’t mind I’ll demonstrate.

First off you start down below with your knees and your hips. At the top of the swing you move the lower part of your body. Not your shoulders...the lower part of your body. Letting your arms and hands follow. Bringing you into position to hit. But this is the first movement...there (Hogan demonstrates). Then you release at the bottom.

Most people do it entirely opposite. They rotate their shoulders first instead of their lower body. As a result they come across the ball...and hit the outside of the ball instead of the back of it.

If you don’t mind...I will hit a ball and the first thing to watch is what starts first from the top of the swing.”

Look also at the beautiful footwork of Ben Hogan at the finish of his swing. Compare to the finish of Roger Federer. I love how Roger’s back foot is balanced and it is actually his front foot that is recovering.

[don_budge]

Foot Position...and the Hips

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

When Roger puts his weight on his left foot at 45 clicks with the arrow key in this video his racquet head is about level with his head. By placing his foot in this position and transferring his weight to this foot he is in the process of loading his hips to turn into the ball. He is effectively initiating his swing with his lower body…his hips.

At 51 clicks he has rotated his hips to something approximately 45 degrees to the net and in the process his racquet head and his hand are below the ball. Notice the angle of his shoulders as well. By placing his feet in the semi-closed stance and rotating his hips in said manner the right shoulder has dropped to a level below his left shoulder and here is where much of the power supply is going to come from as the shoulders will rotate here to catch up to the hips. The arm will more or less stay even with the shoulder for 3 or 4 more clicks until the shoulders have stopped turning and they have cleared the way for the arm to come swinging through.

Notice how at this point, at 53 clicks, that the racquet and the arm become virtually one line as an extension from the shoulders just before contact with the ball. The shoulders are out of the way and arm has a clear path in which to swing through uninhibited. Here you have total engagement of the body at the moment of impact. The head holds its mark on the ball and even after contact Roger holds his head position...in this way he avoids over rotating his shoulders and maintains his BALANCE after his swing.

[don_budge]

Problem Identified...Root Cause?

My approach to that ball is too far above to get a significant amount of topspin. I'm almost hitting down on the ball.

My extension is superb but my racquet head should be accelerating up and over the ball and instead my frame is still parallel with my hand on a flatter trajectory.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Good assessment…now what is the root cause? Hint…to begin with look at the footwork and more specifically the front foot positioning of Roger Federer compared to yours.

Your foot position...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OkITdLTSo

Federer's foot position…

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

[don_budge]

Compared to the Roger Federer Forehand...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

Compare to 43 through 51 clicks into this forehand.

Need any help Brother…I'm here if you need me.

[don_budge]

Here’s the Problem...with the Kyle LaCroix Forehand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXqLZJQ4Emg

Stop this clip at the 13 second mark…here is the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OkITdLTSo

Coincidentally…stop this clip at the 13 second mark also…another view of the problem.

Kyle…what do you see? Do you want to know what I see?

[don_budge]

The Question is How to drop the racquet head below the ball

Stotty, I agree on the forehand and have heard it before. I had my forehand analyzed on dartfish next to Federer's. Having had it slowed down, I saw that my racquet head is parallel with the ball and not below it. Eye opening for sure.

The question of course is how? How do I drop the racquet head below the ball. We can agree I need it, but what tip or visual aid can I receive to do it each and every time. I still have no problems from back of the court with consistency and I can roll the ball back high and deep but it is much more forced and not as free so it causes me to have to think about the execution as opposed to just doing it. How can I get it to be more natural?

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

How to drop the racquet head below the ball…that is the question.

It's a bit of a story…so here goes.