klacr Strokes

[klacr]

From the "Interactive Forum December 2011: Roger Federer - Forehand Drop Shot"…

Salzy Federer… http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...federer&page=2



klacr's volleys… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QroRBamo_jE

That backhand volley is massive. One can really get the sense of a wall behind that shot. At times you have that Welby Van Hornesque "walk the racquet parallel to the net" aspect of it as well.

Hitting volleys from a standing position is always a little deceptive. In this case it gives Kyle just a little too much time on the forehand to do some things that I am certain he doesn't ordinarily do.

At 6' 5" inches tall those volleys get nothing but better in real time. Fantastic that you went to this length to put your game up for review. I like the licensedcoach's referral to a "workshop". Everyone benefits. Sort of like having a live cadaver to perform the practice autopsies that medical students do. It gives us a chance to play "Dr. House". Cause and effect…hopefully a cure. Analysis and diagnosis…prescription.



A thoughtful comment as well…by 10splayer. I like the image of Kyle coming in and blanketing the net…literally making a big wall of himself that neatly and decisively deflects the ball into the open court for winners or tantalizing teasers.

I believe that another rule of thumb is to not hit the ball any harder than you have to to win a given point. Control is power…especially when volleying. Sometimes I like to see my opponent chase one down only to see it dribbling back in the open court…again just out of reach.

Glad you like the backhand volleys. Again, a more natural shot and side for me.

Pancho Gonzales said much the same thing. His volleys were a superb example of the theory...

Volleys are a controlled shot. Not a power shot. I love beating my opponents with precision, not justt pure power, although that's in the stable if I need it.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[10splayer]

DB's point about control, and hitting only as good a shot as needed is so true....a placement emphasis...

With students, from a progression point of view, it's critical in my opinion...Typically when players start to try and access power on the volley, the hitting structure and proper form tend to start breaking down. The very nature of volleys are much more "catching/receiving" then "hitting".

[stotty]

DB's point about control, and hitting only as good a shot as needed is so true....a placement emphasis...

With students, from a progression point of view, it's critical in my opinion...Typically when players start to try and access power on the volley, the hitting structure and proper form tend to start breaking down. The very nature of volleys are much more "catching/receiving" then "hitting".

There are two schools of thought on that one.

I worked alongside John Lloyd’s father (Dennis) for many years. I started my coaching life as a hitter for his students during lessons. His view was the opposite. He would have students hitting way above their comfort zone to the point where technique would start to come undone. He would have them do this in additional hitting sessions with me for long periods of time. He wanted them to do it matches too. Dennis could captivate students (a great quality) and get them to buy into his philosophy hook, line and sinker.

Many of his students made high standards and had fine strokes. All three of his son’s played in the main draw at Wimbledon in the 70’s and 80’s. It was tough to argue with his philosophy on that basis.

He worked on the premise of making players fearless to hit the ball hard, so it would be second nature in matches. In a sense Dennis was before his time.

“Hit the ball as hard as you can because you will never learn that kind of racket speed later in your career”, was what he often preached. He would have them blast volleys too. Unacceptably strange to many coaches no doubt, but it worked for the many he taught.

[10splayer]

There are two schools of thought on that one.

I worked alongside John Lloyd’s father (Dennis) for many years. I started my coaching life as a hitter for his students during lessons. His view was the opposite. He would have students hitting way above their comfort zone to the point where technique would start to come undone. He would have them do this in additional hitting sessions with me for long periods of time. He wanted them to do it matches too. Dennis could captivate students (a great quality) and get them to buy into his philosophy hook, line and sinker.

Many of his students made high standards and had fine strokes. All three of his son’s played in the main draw at Wimbledon in the 70’s and 80’s. It was tough to argue with his philosophy on that basis.

He worked on the premise of making players fearless to hit the ball hard, so it would be second nature in matches. In a sense Dennis was before his time.

“Hit the ball as hard as you can because you will never learn that kind of racket speed later in your career”, was what he often preached. He would have them blast volleys too. Unacceptably strange to many coaches no doubt, but it worked for the many he taught.

Very interesting...I know many who share that philosophy in regards to learning serves and groundstrokes..but not so much with the volleys...Alas, there are many roads to Damascus..

[klacr]

Not a better feeling shot in tennis than a crisp, clean, well struck volley. In my humble opinion of course. The beautiful simplicity of the volley creates its complexity to many.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

The volley is the most complicated stroke of all, as the variety demanded is so extreme. The lack of the ground slowing the ball down.

[gzhpcu]

A well hit serve also gives a great feeling. This all adds up to playing a serve and volley point giving the best feeling.

[don_budge]

Richard "Crack Daddy" Krajicek…Kyle LaCroix

A well hit serve also gives a great feeling. This all adds up to playing a serve and volley point giving the best feeling.

Serves

Serve: Of all the shots I got on video, nothing surprised me more than my serve. This was the first time I served with a purpose in nearly 11 months since my neck surgery at end of 2013. Amazing what happens to a motion after that long in hibernation. There were some things that I had no idea I was doing to that degree. Some good, some bad. My back foot steps up way earlier in my motion than in years past and swings around to far to my right than I imagined. Before surgery, the model was always Krajicek. And I could get it close. Sadly, it's become a Ivanisevic/Roscoe Tanner love child. Krajicek on crack if you will. I'm not upset in my serve as I know it's still effective but am alarmed at what it morphed into. I look like an albatross trying to take off in an attempt to fly.
Here it is...(disregard the thumb)

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

The Ivanisevic/Tanner love child? Krajicek on crack? Great stuff…self deprecating humour. You laugh at yourself…the world laughs with you. You cry…you cry alone. What a great attitude.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_1st_serve/rk_1st_serve.html?RK1stSAdCourtLevelFront2.mov

Ah yes…the serve of one Kyle LaCroix. Let's do a make over Kyle. That motion has sort of gotten away from you somehow. But for every problem…I see at least one solution.

Regarding Richard "Crack Daddy" Krajicek. That is a nice fluid motion. What would you call that…a moving platform. It doesn't look like a pin-point stance to me. I could see that being your motion. What a beautifully timed backswing to a perfectly tossed ball. Tossing to the racquet instead of swinging at the ball.

I like the method of shifting the weight to the back foot and then turning to the ball with the forward weight shift. You said it all in your own assessment. Let's get together and sort this one out. I'm going to need some sun before this winter is over.

But…you know what? I'll bet that this works for you. Just not as well as if it were perfect. But at 6' 5" tall…you can hide a multitude of sins. With your quick toss this thing is on you in a hurry and if you are coming in behind it…look out! If it's me returning…first I am trying to get my racquet on it and second I am trying to get it down at your feet. Third…I am going to try and not give you any sitters on the backhand side and I will be playing the calculated percentages that you are going to miss a couple of forehands. Praying the calculated percentages is more like it.

[klacr]

The Ivanisevic/Tanner love child? Krajicek on crack? Great stuff…self deprecating humour. You laugh at yourself…the world laughs with you. You cry…you cry alone. What a great attitude.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_1st_serve/rk_1st_serve.html?RK1stSAdCourtLevelFront2.mov

Ah yes…the serve of one Kyle LaCroix. Let's do a make over Kyle. That motion has sort of gotten away from you somehow. But for every problem…I see at least one solution.

Regarding Richard "Crack Daddy" Krajicek. That is a nice fluid motion. What would you call that…a moving platform. It doesn't look like a pin-point stance to me. I could see that being your motion. What a beautifully timed backswing to a perfectly tossed ball. Tossing to the racquet instead of swinging at the ball.

I like the method of shifting the weight to the back foot and then turning to the ball with the forward weight shift. You said it all in your own assessment. Let's get together and sort this one out. I'm going to need some sun before this winter is over.

But…you know what? I'll bet that this works for you. Just not as well as if it were perfect. But at 6' 5" tall…you can hide a multitude of sins. With your quick toss this thing is on you in a hurry and if you are coming in behind it…look out! If it's me returning…first I am trying to get my racquet on it and second I am trying to get it down at your feet. Third…I am going to try and not give you any sitters on the backhand side and I will be playing the calculated percentages that you are going to miss a couple of forehands. Praying the calculated percentages is more like it.

Yes, The serve. Where to begin. How much change is needed to improve it and How much can we keep to keep it effective? My toss and timing is something that feels natural. Not sure how many people can replicate my motion but it is mine, all mine. To me, it makes sense. A few aesthetic things I would change to make it perfect but despite its imperfections, it gets me me more than enough success against the fellow coaches in my area I compete against. But yes, it can and should get better. Wimbledon is 217 days away

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

From one Student to another...

Yes, The serve. Where to begin. How much change is needed to improve it and How much can we keep to keep it effective? My toss and timing is something that feels natural. Not sure how many people can replicate my motion but it is mine, all mine. To me, it makes sense. A few aesthetic things I would change to make it perfect but despite its imperfections, it gets me me more than enough success against the fellow coaches in my area I compete against. But yes, it can and should get better. Wimbledon is 217 days away

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

That's is about as objective as you can possibly be with yourself. Good questions…to ask of yourself. But it is good if it feels natural. Ok…just one small thing then.

Look at the Richard "Crack Daddy" Krajicek footwork. Replicate that and it's a wrap. Once again I think that if you line up your feet like his the shoulders should find themselves in a better position to make good use of all of that bulk. The aesthetics will take care of themselves. It's good…real good. You know it.

Like I said…I can feel the heat coming down on me and the blanket covering the net. If I was your age you would be an ideal practice partner. Even now if I am serving well I could hang with you for maybe a set. But I would be in need of some serious recovery time. Maybe a hospital bed. My God…that would be all kinds of fun. Good Luck with all of your practice.

We could always talk about tactics…too!

[klacr]

Replicate the footwork for sure. Krajicek motion perfect in every way. My humble opinion of course. Will certainly look at that step and set up. That's where it needs to be. Except no substitutes. Clear image.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

That's is about as objective as you can possibly be with yourself. Good questions…to ask of yourself. But it is good if it feels natural. Ok…just one small thing then.

Just wanted to butt in for a moment to ask a question, don_budge.

Do you think Kyle's motion is just slightly cramped? I realise he gets his hitting arm fully extended, but nevertheless other servers who hit the ball at the apex seem to fit everything in slightly better, have just that tad more time.

For me this is the crux for players who have a low toss. There is a lot to fit in in a short timeframe and as such everything has to be millimetre perfect. The uncoiling has to be spot on.

Just wonder what your thoughts were on low toss serves...

[don_budge]

No more pussy footing around…Stotty to klacr

Just wanted to butt in for a moment to ask a question, don_budge.

Do you think Kyle's motion is just slightly cramped? I realise he gets his hitting arm fully extended, but nevertheless other servers who hit the ball at the apex seem to fit everything in slightly better, have just that tad more time.

For me this is the crux for players who have a low toss. There is a lot to fit in in a short timeframe and as such everything has to be millimetre perfect. The uncoiling has to be spot on.

Just wonder what your thoughts were on low toss serves...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_toss/rk_toss.html?RK1stSDeuceTossCourtLevelSide.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_toss/rk_toss.html?RK1stSAdTossCourtLevelFront.mov

Thanks for a great question. I just love a great question. But I think you are absolutely spot on with this. The motion is slightly cramped. There is something less than perfect to it to my eye. But on the other hand I sort of laid off the serve a bit…played it a little soft. He says he's happy with it.

You did notice that I did give him a little hint about the footwork because I feel this is where the blemish might be. It's only that too. I think what you are seeing is a slightly misplaced toss as well as if it might be just out to his left just a tad.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_1st_serve/rk_1st_serve.html?RK1stSAdCourtLevelFront2.mov

Ah yes…the serve of one Kyle LaCroix. Let's do a make over Kyle. That motion has sort of gotten away from you somehow. But for every problem…I see at least one solution.

Regarding Richard "Crack Daddy" Krajicek. That is a nice fluid motion. What would you call that…a moving platform. It doesn't look like a pin-point stance to me. I could see that being your motion. What a beautifully timed backswing to a perfectly tossed ball. Tossing to the racquet instead of swinging at the ball.

I like the method of shifting the weight to the back foot and then turning to the ball with the forward weight shift. You said it all in your own assessment. Let's get together and sort this one out. I'm going to need some sun before this winter is over.

I thought that I recollected advising our boy to place the right foot behind the left foot. But I was being a little dodgy about coming right out and saying it. I don't think he is going to get a very good extension from his footwork position…you can see that the legs look a bit splayed in the follow through.

But Richard Krajicek certainly has his ducks in a row doesn't he? Another very, very interesting thing about the Krajicek serve is the tossing motion…compared to Kyle's. Take a look at the two video's courtesy of the stroke archive. I was just teaching a couple of kid's this tossing motion today ironically enough.

In that first video you can see that Richard goes forwards with his tossing hand into the court. The trajectory of his ball is a virtual straight up toss. The second view from the front confirms this…that hand is basically coming straight to the camera. This, I believe, is the correct way to toss the ball. Both arms and hands go away from the body on the back swing…the racquet arm goes backwards of course but the front arm goes forwards. It looks to me as if Richard makes contact with the ball somewhat over his rotating right shoulder. I love the Krajicek tossing motion…as I said I was working with a couple of players on this today and it helped them going forwards.

Many servers…and Kyle is one of them get this rather right to left trajectory going on. Kyle eventually makes contact with the ball at around 11.30 or 12 o'clock…it is a little difficult to tell because he has really opened way up and his body seems to have sort of collapsed to the left…but the toss seems to be to the left of where Krajicek has tossed his. A bit of a sign that he was a little cramped for space.

A think that the culprit is in his footwork. By not lining up his back foot behind the front he has some unwanted wiggle room to be a bit off balance. I don't feel he gets the best extension from this position and the wayward foot right has encouraged him to somehow toss the ball to the left. He is a little off balance compared to Krajicek and he knows it. He himself made the funny comment about the dysfunctional love child service motion.

Once again I believe that the balance issue is footwork related…as was the forehand. I don't think that it is because the toss is low as he is really timing it well…I think it may be because the toss is a bit misplaced due to the footwork and the tossing motion itself. But we will have to wait and see how he works this out for himself. You brought up an excellent point…deserving of discussion. I guess I sort of pussy footed around this.

Just a couple of thoughts…what do you guys think? Thanks again for asking.

[stotty]

I have a little different take on this, Stotty. I think the ideal serve is hit right at the top or within about 2 inches of the top of the toss, but not on the way up. Hit at the top, it looks like it is hit on the way up, but this is rarely the case. When you hit the ball at the top of the toss, you catch the opponent a little bit off guard because they are so used to focusing on the ball after it reaches the top of the toss and starts to come down. But you have to get to full extension; I don't think Kyle quite makes that. We really need some good slomo that we can watch frame-by-frame. His neck issues could be clouding the situation a bit.

But for me, when you catch the ball right at the top of the toss, everything has to fit together perfectly, like a Swiss watch. I like the simple front-back-front motions of Krajicek, Stitch and you, Stotty. The rhythm holds everything together like a lynchpin. And when you catch the ball right at the top of the toss, that lynchpin has a very exact fit. Tough to learn, but once you have it, it works really well, like a Swiss watch.

In reality, however, Kyle does not have the same rock as Stitch or Krajicek. He is actually more like a Sampras just going from back to front. Although he apparently starts with his weight forward, his hands don't move until he has brought the weight all the way back. It's a good consistent rhythm, but I don't like the fact the ball bounce is actually part of the overall motion. I always say if the ball bounces off a bump to a different spot it changes your whole motion. I want to start in exactly the same way every time.

Kyle, I would make you hit a few deep bounce overheads. I'd be feeding you standing right next to you and I'd have to toss or hit the ball pretty high to make it bounce high enough for you to settle under it (hopefully in a trophy/overhead position) and reach up to full extension feeling the full drive of your legs on that shot. Hit a few like that and feel your leg action (presumably you would not have been jumping) and then put that leg drive into your serve.

that's all for now, but you really ought to try some of my "feet together forward figure 8" hits. Look up some of my drills on youtube at my channel, GlobalTennisDC or go to the video lessons at http://silviahosokawa.smugmug.com/Sp...rosseau-tennis.

I really need to get that stuff better organized so I could send you to the right place. We are working on my website and for the first time in 5 years, I am actually making progress.

don

This post by tennis_chiro is interesting. I thought it got buried rather quick so decided to surface it again. It's good to have it next to don_budge's.

This little guy at 3:06 fits everything in nice and neat. He seems to have a full rotary toss too...not easy that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE4_UTA3J1k

The give away for me is that Kyle never gets his left arm up enough after he releases the toss. I believe this collapses his left flank a tad early as a result, giving things that slightly cramped look.

Whatever style of serve a player has, it's an imperative that the tossing arm follows the balls up a good way. It's how a player gets tall and manages good extension. For me, Kyle doesn't quite make it...as don_budge and tennis_chiro observe also.

I also wonder if his swing is slightly too elongated to pull it off. That awkward looking little bit of wrist flexion around the trophy might be eating up some time too...well there is so little time for manoeuvre in these types of motions.

Kyle struggles to recover balance as he lands as don_budge points out. This is something that Paolo Cane does so well at 3:06...look how well he follows his serve to the net...superb recovery and balance after serving.

[klacr]

Grizzly, Black, Brown, Polar...

don_budge and stotty,

Great comments.

I agree with the feet. The footwork on serve is something I never picked up until I saw it on video. Really blew my mind.

Let me work on the footwork as I think that in itself can naturally aid in the adjustment in other technical elements.

Stotty brings up my tossing arm. I will fess up that I knowingly don't lift it that high simply due to my excitement to hit the ball. It's like dangling a salmon over a bear's cage. I see it. It's fresh and juicy, I want it now and no one will stop me.

Another element that I need to look at and figure it out, which I will.

But footwork is my #1 priority right now. At the time of this post...
Krajicek > Kyle.

But things can change.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton