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Short Angle: A Tennis Book, Simon and Schuster 2016, 504 Pages

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  • Originally posted by bottle View Post
    So which is better for hitting a short angle, reader, long or bent arm?
    Let's go bent...

    Stotty

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    • Big shoulders tilt seems one of the ingredients too. (Am still talking about the Hingis model. But here is a surprise. Thank you, Stotty! I was hoping to clear that issue up.)
      Last edited by bottle; 08-24-2015, 06:19 PM.

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      • Djokovic and Hingis

        So, before I try any part of either, what does their short angle methodology have in common? More arm length alteration in the case of Martina although there’s some of that with Novak too. No twisting of whole arm while hitting the ball. The twisting of whole arm comes later. Some twisting of forearm might occur while hitting the ball or not. The two arm tricks during or around contact are bending at the elbow and twisting the forearm, with twisting of the whole arm coming later.

        Me, I mostly want this shot as a forehand service return in doubles followed by a volley to the same spot. I don’t think there will be much time for running toward the ball with the two arms disengaged from each other the way these two players sometimes do.

        For me the left hand will stay on the racket for unit turn and the right arm will immediately descend steeply down as right leg starts its drive. I will have done away with all loopy flourish at the top since I am old.





        Last edited by bottle; 08-25-2015, 10:38 AM.

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        • Cranky-Crank

          The delicacy of straight down racket positioning did not pass the muster of actual competition and I had to rely on other shots for my geezer's jollies.

          Fortunately, I did have alternatives available, but the progression set achug here must not stop.

          I now bet the whole enterprise on this one available video of Martina Hingis hitting her cc (see see) short angle (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelFront.mov).

          Why? The contest was between Martina and Novak, but Novak as example involved learning to hit the ball like Novak.

          Whereas this video of Martina offers easy-to-follow steps involving the Federer-like racket tip lift I tried so hard for so long to initiate.

          Therefore, thanks to the magic of myelination, building upon racket tip lift will prove easy as Swiss pie.

          One cranks the racket tip up. One cranks the racket tip down and through in front of one at which time one bends one's arm to initiate the 3-step sequence identified in post # 213 . All the cranking is so fluid and continuous and relaxed (and therefore effortlessly quick) that one has as much fun as the old Cuban boxer Kid Gavilan throwing his famous bolo punch but with the actual chance of being effective.

          Note: As can be seen in the video, all the cranking is very close to the body. But if one scrapes the ball with biceps contraction as Martina does, and hits the ball from as low as she does here, the racket tip will actually move to the outside. How different that is from all the other ways of attempted cranking of topspin onto the ball.
          Last edited by bottle; 08-27-2015, 06:30 PM.

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          • Tweak

            Unfortunately I am often not swift enough to come up with my best ideas for innovation right while I'm doing self-feed out on the court.

            The previous post, "Cranky-Crank," worked well and elicited encouragement from a teaching pro playing doubles on an adjacent court through the fence. The ball however went a bit high and did not always travel on an angle sufficiently cute.

            I postulate then-- now-- that my Hingis style loop should start farther out in slot than Hingis's and stay compressed until late with elbow coming into side and then sliding around belly while remaining in contact with belly until the sudden arm bend brush.

            Note: Arm does not extend from elbow until elbow is sliding around greased belly which is revolving itself. Well, it's an idea in a good neighborhood. One should always fool around.
            Last edited by bottle; 08-27-2015, 05:22 AM.

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            • Eight Vigorous Cues for Shape (Model T Windshield) and Content (Racket Head Speed)

              You play with the shot you practiced.-- Stan Smith

              The study of ignorance-- or agnotology...is in its infancy.-- The New York Times

              Employ the strategic manufacture of uncertainty.-- implicit idea from same article

              1) Westernize grip a smidge beyond that used for normal topspin forehand

              2) Whip racket tip straight up with back of hand

              3) Whip racket tip straight down with edge of hand

              4) Whip racket tip straight forward with palm of hand

              5) Lift racket tip with biceps muscle

              6) Continue lift of racket to vertical position with roll of forearm

              7) Whip racket over to side with roll of elbow

              8) Return racket to body.

              Too much detail is the bane of language and tennis stroke acquisition. But immersion in detail is often required before the detail must be forgotten.

              Item 4) in particular requires at same time a) extension of arm from elbow and b) awareness of racket tip bowling ahead of rest of racket to establish forward position WAY OUT.

              My post # 215 should be ignored. It is backup plan if this one-- much braver-- fails.

              I'm ready to forget all eight of these cues right now and hit the shot, and my partner Hope is extremely annoyed with my constant waving of my arm. Even Frieda (Peace), our frequent dinner guest of 101 years, told me to cut it out. "Stop that," she said last night. "It won't do you any good. Just play."
              Last edited by bottle; 08-28-2015, 02:45 AM.

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              • Hand goes up from elbow bowl and arm bend both before contact (with contact accomplished with more arm bend), does it not?

                The rise of the hand is what gets racket tip forward enough to hit the acutely angled target.

                My agnotology says that my item # 4 where arm extended while racket was traveling forward became wrong ten minutes after my posting of # 217 , but I don't apologize since this is all part of the process of aspiring to this great shot.

                Arm straightens as racket whips down behind the back.

                Hand goes down and up both before there is contact.

                That's why this is a (s)kill shot.

                But look at Martina's left arm. Hardly like left arms in forehands of other right-handers we admire.
                Last edited by bottle; 08-28-2015, 08:29 AM.

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                • Yikes: paralysis by analysis...

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                  • Nonsense. You need more agnotology. And WD-40 . A good night's sleep, too. I know I do.
                    Last edited by bottle; 08-28-2015, 04:45 AM.

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                    • Wireframe Loop

                      Reader, if you are with me in my quest for the perfect see see short angle-- a dubious assertion of your adventurousness I know-- use the forehand loop you saw today as you opened this website.

                      With the following modification: Instead of closing your racket an extra amount at top of dogpat, lift your elbow as you turn your body.

                      In which direction will your dogpat now go? Horizontally back? Diagonally down? Vertically down?

                      Depends on purpose of your shot.

                      For the see see short angle go vertically down like Martina Hingis. Like Martina, then, bend your arm again as you send your elbow forward.

                      You are now ready to brush the ball with more arm bend followed by roll of forearm followed by roll of elbow with all of this against a visualized Model T windshield.

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                      • Making Two Different Actions Simultaneous

                        Precisely when does the severe banking of Martina Hingis' shoulders occur in this shot (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...velFront.mov)?

                        Answer: Coincident with her dogpat. Must be a very small dog.
                        Last edited by bottle; 08-29-2015, 11:38 AM.

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                        • See how her last step (at least on the ground) is forward with her right foot. Important for making the angle.

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                          • To correct hitting too broad an angle don't refrain from sliding elbow forward, yes, but also almost into the belly.
                            Last edited by bottle; 08-31-2015, 05:03 AM.

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                            • Saw Sebastien, my favorite former hitting partner of Jo-Wilfrid Tsonga and French teaching pro in Detroit. He was giving a lesson to two youths in the adjacent court. "You're working on short angle," he said. "Yes, I figure if I get it I go up one level."

                              Well, he didn't scream.

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                              • Smooth, Smoother, Smoothest

                                Note how shoulders bank at a different time in wire frame forehand and Martina Hingis's see see short angle.

                                Eeeek! This is paralysis by analysis.

                                It's true that my car does not run too smoothly when all of its nuts and bolts are in a single bucket on a concrete floor.

                                But that does not mean that I won't (or didn't) put my car together again and it actually ran.

                                A distinguishing characteristic of Martina's see see is that she uses arm bend to administer the spin. So, if we can take from this, let's make the arm bend one smooth motion.

                                But what is the most vigorous part of muscle (including biceps) contraction? The beginning. So, will strings be accelerating when they brush the ball?

                                To ensure an accel rather than a decel make sure that forearm roll takes over just as racket leaves the ball.
                                Last edited by bottle; 08-30-2015, 05:55 AM.

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