You can't say a thing these days...

[johnyandell]

Wow I am just going to say that I view all this very differently. Serena can have sex with whomever she wants to. And dance however she wishes. It's not my business or anyone else's. Personally I think the Russian dude got off easy--especially without an apology. If he called Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic women there would a whole new level of response because that would seem crazy--and it is regarding Serena.
Nothing personal against anyone posting here--again just my opinion--but I feel the attacks on Serena are in general racist and sexist. What she has accomplished on the tennis court and her general grace far outweigh all considerations.

[johnyandell]

Stotty,

The whole Serena thing aside and god could we put it aside...

Those three books were formative in my world view as well--1984 came and went but we are getting closer to 1984 all the time. And for Kafka--yes you did something wrong, you are guilty, we don't have to tell you what, but believe us we know who you are and we don't like you...

[GeoffWilliams]

Pc bs, aside, the companies paying her to be a role model, ;;;;;;; might disagree. The manufacturers/sponsors are getting stomped on, their morals clauses being violated with impunity. They work too hard to bring us the finest equipment to be so treated. Because we don't like her does not make us racist nor sexist, it makes her unlikable for the things she has said, done, worn, etc. No one gets a pass in the public eye. The pc bullies would have it other wise. If the russian dude had said, "Rafa and Djokovic are sisters.", no one would have cared nor batted an eye. Ask her opponents if her gloat screams are gracious. Or the insufferable arrogance. Many americans feel embarrassed by it all.

[hockeyscout]

Holy shit Geoff.

Say what you want, however, when god decided to create the perfect woman tennis player in terms of speed, size, proportions and power he created Serena.

We won't see anything close to that for, well, maybe seven to ten years

[stroke]

Holy shit Geoff.

Say what you want, however, when god decided to create the perfect woman tennis player in terms of speed, size, proportions and power he created Serena.

We won't see anything close to that for, well, maybe seven to ten years

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one. I certainly hope you are right about not seeing anything close to that for at least 7 to 10 years.

[johnyandell]

I don't see anyone posting pictures of Roger or Rafa in bath suits and making disparaging remarks.
We've come a long way in our culture. This latest "controversy" may be positive for exposing how far we still have to go.

[GeoffWilliams]

Ha, ha. At least they look good!

[johnyandell]

Uh Geoff, looks good to whom?

But seriously has everyone had their say now? People magazine probably has a forum if anyone wants to talk further about people in bathing suits and underwear.

[stotty]

Thread closed...

As the creator of this thread, I am think it's run its course and would like to bring it to an official close - thank you.

[GeoffWilliams]

Discussing Serena is like a Pistachio: When the pistachio splits, the nuts come out! I have green eyes too! Ha, ha.



Does the criticism of Alexandra Stevenson and her mom make anyone a sexist or a racist? No.

[stotty]

As the creator of this thread, I am think it's run its course and would like to bring it to an official close - thank you.

CLOSED!

[don_budge]

Big Brother Speaks...

CLOSED!

With all due respect...I am not certain that your starting a thread entitles you to close it. At least not by forum guidelines. There is a matter of difference between good taste and serious discussion though. Some get a bit squeamish about things…everyone has their limits. These days those limits are pretty darn tight. I understand why you say "CLOSED" and I respect you for saying it. I hope that you won't find my comments disrespectful either.

But so be it. These are the days. It is what it is. You have to be able to read between the lines and connect the dots. The ability to separate fact from fiction…the ability to discern.

Shamil Tarpischev worked for the Russian Tennis Federation. He was also on the Olympic International Committee…he is privy to some vital information that the general public is not. Serena Williams and Venus Williams both played on the USA Olympic team. There was some controversy regarding their participation a couple of years ago that we as the general public are not privy to. Russia is currently being vilified by the Western media…which doesn't make the Russians the good guys either. This guy made a comment about the "Williams Brothers" and the bruha began…with the ensuing propaganda and misinformation. More lies and cheating. It never ends…like the wars of today.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/22/sport/tennis/serena-williams-halep-tennis-wta/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2

Yesterday, Serena played arguably her worst tennis match in a long time. She has a history of some rather questionable behaviour that everyone seems to give her a pass on. Racism and sexism is often cited but I am not so certain. I know that I am neither and I have questions. She is in the public eye just as all of our "celebrities" and "famous" are…there is a price to be paid for that. Just or not. It's a fact of culture. The Williams sisters are worth investigating. There are too many questions surrounding their behaviour and performance. Their story doesn't add up. It is not that difficult to see…it is only cognitive dissonance.

This is only a discussion. It doesn't damn or otherwise make any moral judgement about any single individual. At least that is how it started out. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to get indignant or to be offended. My only question is one of fairness…is there cheating going on. I have the same ethical questions regarding the use of performance enhancing drugs and tennis equipment in general for the past thirty years. Ethics are grounds for discussion…in my world. The ensuing conversation can often turn colourful.

Pretty soon the color will all be removed from the conversation…and everyone will stay rigidly within the control limits. This is what your world will look like and I hope that you will like what you see. You are in fact living in this world…but you are too blind to see. We are in fact living in this world…but we are too blind to see. It's the fear factor. They even named a TV program after it.

1984…we are thirty years hence. To say that, "1984 came and went but we are getting closer to 1984 all the time" is at best an understatement. Orwell wrote about it in 1946. We are already there…surrounded but too blind to see. This is why there will be no further discussion regarding the Williams sisters. Until the machine is ready to tell the story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCZBnUt6rZ0

I hope you like what you see.

[stotty]

With all due respect...I am not certain that your starting a thread entitles you to close it. At least not by forum guidelines. There is a matter of difference between good taste and serious discussion though. Some get a bit squeamish about things…everyone has their limits. These days those limits are pretty darn tight. I understand why you say "CLOSED" and I respect you for saying it. I hope that you won't find my comments disrespectful either.

You are right. Oddly enough I was at work this morning and it occurred to me that I had no right to close a thread I had started. I am often wise after the event as we all are at times. I was actually going to delete my last post and let Geoff or anyone else continue...you beat me to it with your post.

In my defense, I just didn't want abuse to get out of hand or for people to be offended. Some comments were getting below the belt. The last thing I want to do is start a thread that could hurt the feelings of others. With me it's about dialogue, thrashing things out fairly and meaningfully.

The topic started with a Russian having a slip of the tongue and the mess it got him into. Is that right or wrong that someone should be thrown to the press for careless comments? Who arbitrates in the in the viral world? Are we too censored? The thread meandered somewhat....

[don_budge]

Well played...

You are right. Oddly enough I was at work this morning and it occurred to me that I had no right to close a thread I had started. I am often wise after the event as we all are at times. I was actually going to delete my last post and let Geoff or anyone else continue...you beat me to it with your post.

In my defense, I just didn't want abuse to get out of hand or for people to be offended. Some comments were getting below the belt. The last thing I want to do is start a thread that could hurt the feelings of others. With me it's about dialogue, thrashing things out fairly and meaningfully.

The topic started with a Russian having a slip of the tongue and the mess it got him into. Is that right or wrong that someone should be thrown to the press for careless comments? Who arbitrates in the in the viral world? Are we too censored? The thread meandered somewhat....

...my good friend. You are right about everything. This is an important discussion if one uses intellect over emotion.

[hockeyscout]

Seriously don_budge, stick to writing tournament previews and leave the tennis coaching and "tennis running" (whatever the hell that is?) commentary up to the experts like John Yandell, Geoff Williams and klacr (amongst others - sorry for any omissions).

A few observations to Slotty.

Do you have kids? Do you train girls? Lets say tennis associations read these boards? How quickly these associations would pull licenses after reading this forum. Do you understand how quickly they could make an example out of you? Think about it.

Now, let me explain to you a few things about Mother Russia to all of you folks, as I lived in Russia - Ukraine and have raised a family.

Two things you NEVER say here:

If you are a woman:

Tell a man he is not a man. No bigger insult. It should never be done.

If you are a man:

Tell a woman she is a man. It is the SINGLE biggest insult.

His comment was not innocent, and it was no joke. That, is never said in Russia. I repeat. Never. Just like us white guys would never use the N word in America. It not done.

I have to say upon reading what this man had to say, and the lack of a sincere apology I am quite glad I made the decision to return to the Ukraine and not accept any offers to associate my daughter with the Russian Tennis Association when I had a chance a year ago (we are originally from Crimea, which was taken over by Russia).

The next time I get a friendly call from my "BUDS" in Moscow asking how my young one is coming along and what her plans are I think I will ask them point blank:

"If the Russian Federation treats a champion like Serena with such respect, how will they treat my daughter?"

Looks like Yuri Sharapova knew a few things about this Russian Tennis Federation.