Racket Head Speed

[bottle]

Thanks very much.

I see a lot of players with the ground stroke rhythm of jaleel khan here, particularly on the forehand side.

Good, I'd say, but maybe not great.

For the short angle forehand I'm trying to birth, it makes sense.

But is this what Roger does? Or what J. Donald Budge did on his forehand? Or other players in any age who slow down higher up most often in a loop?

I return to my slap-shot analogy in which there is either a fall or slap which becomes part of the kinetic energy of the shot along with the fast-moving sap coming up from the ground.

Where in other words does or should forward part of somebody's forehand actually start? Tyler Weeks, Braden Tennis College owner, once asked that question and concluded that there wasn't a single answer. He was agnostic on this question as it pertained to Federer.

[10splayer]

I understand how you want control, and to wait for the ball, however, I just don't like it. In any sport. I am working on a lot of NFL engagement movement, and that look is weird and out of left field to me.

I pray my daughter plays kids one day at the Orange Bowl in four years (if she is good enough, and daddy isn't a idiot for setting her up in a radically different manner than tennis coaches who teach a certain style), it will just be great because she'll be able to predict their rhythm very easily and take advantage of it. Its pretty easy to get a bead on that player. You'll always be completely ready for that player who is just standing their like a stickman and just focused on getting the ball back to you.

Now, if this guy with smart hands (yes, they are smart) could flow into the ball better like I teach anyone on the other side would be at a major disadvantage major disadvantage on the other side of the net because that is hard to play against as Mr. Agassi taught us. The good player change rhythm, pace and speed, however, this guy is one pace at all times. I don't want to see that, even in practice, always change it up. It's what made Andy Murray a special player over many other who had more gifts. His mama knew what she was doing in that regard! Control the tempo of the game, and understand it, that is what any coach in any sport wants his athletes to understand.

The bellybutton is the key here for this player. I will use the simplist language here to explain it because again, its so hard to explain what I do to tennis coaches. My best way of explaining the problem here is his belly button is pointing down. It needs to go through the ball, however, it goes down to much for my liking towards a ground base which sure doesn't help give his SMART HANDS (I like his hands) their full wow value. The belly button issue (and I am sure Klacr gets this all being a hell of swimmer back in his day) results in the torso to elongates (touched on it earlier) and this results in his all-important hip pointers dropping to the ground. So, as a result here, no torque out of the torso.

So, what I want all of you to do is think of the torso right now as a spring okay? So, you twist it, and when you release it, you let it go. However, if you drop the hip pointer then what happens the torso splays (like opens up in simple terms) and buckles in a way its not meant to function. Now, take a coiled spring, and twist it laterally, and let it go and you will get a huge slap back. Now, if you take that same spring and bend it, make a C out of it, you will get no power! Aha, magic, that is what is happening here. That is what he is doing in the video. Buckling isn't HUGE, however, he's bending it back in C with the front splaying, and then he tries to rotate, and it doesn't worked because it is double torqued and it ends up ovviously cancelling power.

Now, the question, what should he be doing ideally? Well a million things I'd do, however, what I would want to stress is getting the hip pointers towards the ball. I think they need to go where you want the ball to go when you are dealing with eight year olds at the start of the skill-set, set up phase, and that is what we are consiously doing right now in our developmental platform.

I just hated the backhand, sorry, ZERO load and all arm action. No footwork and to much standing sqaure. Truthfully, I do not even know where to start on that point. He's just pointlessly whacking it. If Eskimoos in Canada did that with seals they'd never eat, or have to buy shotguns. I want to see more mid-torso flexion, if I could only make on comment, and a bigger load to the ball.

Now their are some nice things that he is doing, a number of them. He does, despite all of this utter chaos, he does manage to make contact with the ball out front not bad, because, well, he's talented, but raw and so unrefined. The problem is, no one has shown him how to truly create power to that point. This is where a hockey coach could help, as that is what we do, create real power towards our numerous points of contact (whatever they may be, their are 100's). To get back to good things -- the dude has a smart racket.

Now, in terms of the strokes, I would change TONS of stuff. However, YOU CANNOT teach the hands until you have the rest of the house in order. I think teaching the ATP 3 is a chaotic enterprise unless you put in place all of the setups (and 1000's more) I have outlined above. Its a long term approach on the court, in the gym and on the mats. You can't shortcut it, and if you do this ATP will always fall apart for you, and their will be conistency issues.

Now, in this video the man is cruising. And, yes, you need to cruise at times to get good, however, when we do this it's HIGHLY engaged cruising. And, its in rhythm (proper). This players issue again is he's so fixated on this racket. I AM NOT. If the bulk of your body is in the wrong spot, then you can have Roger Federer's hands, and it is not going to happen for you. He's doing remarkably well for the way he is trying to play, however, its all rib cage up. He needs to play from the ball of his foot up. Tennis, like hockey, is played with the whole body.

Now, I want to END WITH THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL if anyone is still reading LOL!

When he finishes his stroke his feet are absolutely functionally dead. Gone. Over. That's never good. They need to be turned ON 24-7. In the follow through of your stroke you should always be resetting your feet. Now that's a whole science we are really into, and I could go on all day about this, and what we are doing with the using that momentum to lead into a brilliant next shot. It constantly amazes me how some players (like this one) refuse to use that momentum when they got everything going and flowing nice for them. This guys is stopping, restarting and resetting continually, and it is causing him not to flourish. He hits the ball and he feels complete. Big mistake. Its our problem here as well in Ukraine, and its so hard to teach! Zombie tennis player who feels he or she is done when they hit the ball. Its so hard to sell athletes sometimes on the importance of never cancelling out, because if you do you have to do three things to get it back, and that often results in the hands and racket head going chaotic.

The thing about it, this dude has done the hard work, he knows essentially what he can do, however, 2/3 of what he needs us hockey people can built with hockey coach, or MMA, or NFL finishing school.

And FYI, every coach in another sport would see these things as it's sport. Your problems coaching tennis are the same as ours, and you've got an advantage because your athlete isn't under physical pressure of getting hit.

Thank you for this. It's going to take me a bit to decipher some of what you say, because as you've mentioned, we come from different sporting backgrounds.

A few points. JK is what i a call a "glider". He's not "explosive" but rather smooth, effortless etc..

He's tough to wrong foot and get off balance as he has a great feel for his center of gravity...He's actually very deceptive, mostly cause he doesn't seem to be working too hard. He never seems to "labor' or fight himself while moving.

And youre right, he has great hands...

[10splayer]

And please expand on the hip thing....

[10splayer]

Thanks very much.

I see a lot of players with the ground stroke rhythm of jaleel khan here, particularly on the forehand side.

Good, I'd say, but maybe not great.

For the short angle forehand I'm trying to birth, it makes sense.

But is this what Roger does? Or what J. Donald Budge did on his forehand? Or other players in any age who slow down higher up most often in a loop?

n as it perI return to my slap-shot analogy in which there is either a fall or slap which becomes part of the kinetic energy of the shot along with the fast-moving sap coming up from the ground.

Where in other words does or should forward part of somebody's forehand actually start? Tyler Weeks, Braden Tennis College owner, once asked that question and concluded that there wasn't a single answer. He was agnostic on this questiotained to Federer.

Can you elaborate?

[hockeyscout]

I totally disagree on his movement. It is so bad. Maybe its good for you in tennis, however, for us in other sports it is VERY below average with A LOT of room for growth. Yes, the hands are good, it's just sad no one had a basic understanding of athletic setups to get him off to a better start.

[10splayer]

I totally disagree on his movement. It is so bad. Maybe its good for you in tennis, however, for us in other sports it is VERY below average with A LOT of room for growth. Yes, the hands are good, it's just sad no one had a basic understanding of athletic setups to get him off to a better start. In fact, its a common problem I see across the board. Track, hockey, NBA and NFL coaches could really make a difference in this sport, however, tennis coaches aren't interested much ever in how we do things in our sports for reasons I cannot fathom.

How is track movement applicable

[hockeyscout]

The rules of movement are the rules of movement. It's biomechanics.

[10splayer]

I don't see how "running" is applicable IF the defintion of running is where the center of gravity falls outside the base of support.

Footwork patterns that keep the center of gravity within the base of support are much preferred in this game... for a multitude of reasons. If you're "running" you're losing in tennis.

And I've had many coaches in other sports, who know nothing about how to build games..Geez

[hockeyscout]

Really? Who? Which coaches? What sport? What were their backgrounds and certifications? Care to elaborate because it sounds strange to me. I deal in real specifics of course, and I am curious what these coaches thought about you as well, and your grasp of important athletic concepts.

Let me ask you a question - how big an industry is tennis? How much money has been sunk into understanding biomechanics? None. Time, money and finances - the other sports have it sorted out. Billions spent in research. Decades ahead of tennis. Serious.

Brian Gordon is interesting, however, has it been backed up by independent study and third party analysis? Probably not because its the only thing of it's kind, and proprietary in nature of course, and not open to public scrutiny like other sports which has all opened up their can of worms, and shared in a real open source environment. I know ZERO about his perimeters unfortunately, and he'd never discuss them with a guy like me anyways.

I am so nervous about what I see, hear and read about tennis technique. I want to elaborate. It seems to me only one guy is doing it, and its John Yandell, and it's sad John hasn't got a backer to give him tens of millions of dollars to truly expand his research, and really reach the conclusions his peers have in other sports. Guys like John, and Vic Braden needed millions in cash infusion, and teams of assistants and experts. Instead, other sports got it.

Anyone else doing what John is doing, or is at his level? Don't think so, as their is no funding. Next, can you locate me any scientific papers of merit relating to tennis? It's tough isn't it. Again, zero funding.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = problem. NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, Billions. Tennis cannot compete, and their is so much competition for good running, movement coaches, that guys in that training industry are competing for BIG TIME money.

With all due respect to Boris Becker, Ivan Lendl, and all the other great coaches, come on, do you think tennis coaches have the resources to compete with other guys in other fields who are basically getting cart blanche and unlimited budgets, people power and analytics?

[GeoffWilliams]

When I was in high school, my school won the california state track championship. We had about 1100 students, most from the ghetto. Four black guys on the team who could run 9.6/100yds, and one who could high hurdle. DD Cooper. WE had no track, just a straight a way next to the bart tracks. Barb wire fences. A grass football field without bleachers. No equipment. No coaching. No way to practice baton exchanges. Competing against 30,000 student LA teams. Inner city genetic talent. One whirl pool bath. No tennis courts. A park near by with howler monkeys, had an asphalt path we used as a track. Nichol park in Richmond. Four shot dead over drug territories when I was there. I held the all time mile record, with stan smith tennis shoes.

Tennis does not depend on the fastest, nor the most athletic. Nor the most talented. You fight with your head first, and then your sword. Ask Brad Gilbert about that, reaching #4 without a serve. With old school continental grips. Pushing and hitting without spin.

Now it's impossible to do that, win with mostly your mind. All else has to be in place. Viciousness. Talent. Starvation diets. All out training. All out coaching. All out equipment. And then, there are 1000s of others crushing the ball all over the world who are harder, smarter, than you are.

[gzhpcu]

I totally disagree on his movement. It is so bad. Maybe its good for you in tennis, however, for us in other sports it is VERY below average with A LOT of room for growth. Yes, the hands are good, it's just sad no one had a basic understanding of athletic setups to get him off to a better start.

Maybe it is better to judge when he is playing under match conditions?

[tennis_chiro]

I've been waiting to hear for a long time what exactly it is that hockeyscout finds missing in so many of the players that he dismisses as poor athletes or at least poor movers if not strikers of the ball. So it's great to see him contribute some specific analysis. It seems to me he is emphasizing that a player has to get in position early enough to load and use his legs and generate power from the bottom up. As for his longing for more "bellybutton" and hip movement, this seems to be similar to the emphasis of Jack Broudy's "8 Board" (see http://8board.com/). I've seen them but never actually employed it as a tool. I know a lot of esteemed teachers and players who swear by it. And I like the concept.

In the subject video that is being dissected here, I think there is a lot of room for better more precise footwork, lower body and trunk loading and, basically, 8-board kind of movement. But without better, higher speed video with more frames per second, it is pretty hard to tell exactly what the subject hitter is doing here. You certainly develop greater power when you drive the engine from the center of the core, but if that mechanism is not that fast at the extremes of its range of motion and the actual timing mechanism of the tennis swing has to be pretty brief to be realistically applicable when the ball starts going faster than the superhighway speed limit. If the ball is sitting there (golf) you can certainly get away with a more complicated and longer swing; not on a groundstroke on a fast deep ball, much less on a return of serve. Certainly, even in those situations, major power should come from that core leg-hip-back-shoulder power engine, but it must be utilised in a way that respects the premium on timing and a lack of much actual time.

don

[10splayer]

http://youtu.be/Od_7c6eD1Qk

Gentlemen, are the VAST amount of movement patterns running? I would say no. In fact, I would argue that he is trying his best NOT to run in a manner that forces his center of gravity to fall outside his base support. Specifically, how he always tries to "lead" with the foot closest to the ball whenever possible. For all you load/kinetic chain guys, why would that be?

I def made a mistake in posting this video...It doesn't really do JK justice, in that it is casual hitting. I thought that went without saying...It's certainly obvious though he is nonchalant. In fact, that was my point originally, that as casual as he is going about this, it translates well into end point racquet head speed.

[hockeyscout]

When I was in high school, my school won the california state track championship. We had about 1100 students, most from the ghetto. Four black guys on the team who could run 9.6/100yds, and one who could high hurdle. DD Cooper. WE had no track, just a straight a way next to the bart tracks. Barb wire fences. A grass football field without bleachers. No equipment. No coaching. No way to practice baton exchanges. Competing against 30,000 student LA teams. Inner city genetic talent. One whirl pool bath. No tennis courts. A park near by with howler monkeys, had an asphalt path we used as a track. Nichol park in Richmond. Four shot dead over drug territories when I was there. I held the all time mile record, with stan smith tennis shoes.

Tennis does not depend on the fastest, nor the most athletic. Nor the most talented. You fight with your head first, and then your sword. Ask Brad Gilbert about that, reaching #4 without a serve. With old school continental grips. Pushing and hitting without spin.

Now it's impossible to do that, win with mostly your mind. All else has to be in place. Viciousness. Talent. Starvation diets. All out training. All out coaching. All out equipment. And then, there are 1000s of others crushing the ball all over the world who are harder, smarter, than you are.

Agreed. Nice post Geoff.

[hockeyscout]

Maybe it is better to judge when he is playing under match conditions?

No.

The issues he has on this video will still be the same issues when he is at a higher speed.

Trust me, they will not go away.

The kid is a great player with superb hands.

However, their are a few things with neurological athletic setups that could be so much better, and really do his justice to his fine raw skills with his hand eye.