Racket Head Speed

[hockeyscout]

Haha, this place is getting nuttier by the minute. But anyway go, the floor is ypurs.

We've got a much different standards on athleticism, size, set ups and skill sets.

[stroke]

hockey, you may need to reread Dr. Gordon's articles on the ATP Forehand. It is all about more compact, more racquet head speed, most biomechanically efficient way to hit a forehand. The example 10splayer gave us is definately in the neighborhood.

[hockeyscout]

hockey, you may need to reread Dr. Gordon's articles on the ATP Forehand. It is all about more compact, more racquet head speed, most biomechanically efficient way to hit a forehand. The example 10splayer gave us is definately in the neighborhood.

I read everything.

This ATP 3 stuff is really great, it is. I love classical tennis. However, it's essentially meaningless to me, and what I want to do. ATP 3 is classic.

[stroke]

hockey, I think you really need to post some video of your improvement on the ATP Type 3 Forehand. The talking about it time has kind of passed.

[hockeyscout]

hockey, I think you really need to post some video of your improvement on the ATP Type 3 Forehand. The talking about it time has kind of passed.

Did I say I made an improvement on the ATP 3? No. That is putting words in my mouth I think.It's all about getting to an ATP 4 or 5. That takes years Stroke. I wonder, is everyone here consciously trying to set a bar higher, or do they see ATP 3 as the be all and end all?

[stroke]

is that a yes or no to the video?

[hockeyscout]

is that a yes or no to the video?

Its getting posted for Geoff in November to look at the string.

[10splayer]

Please, don't take this personal.

I am just another asshole with an opinion.

We all have them, and frankly none of us have track records here of developing a world number one here in tennis (that I know of), so who knows what is right or wrong here.

The discussion is interesting though.

However, I am 100 percent serious, my eight year old cranks it harder. If she hit like this guy I would ask her to leave the court as it's in no way productive what he is doing. This is just patty cake bakers man tennis and he's just playing catch, and I am not sure what is impressive about it?

5000 guys like this one?

Our full time hitting partner in Russia who was top 1200 in the world and he was much better, and the current hitting partner we brought in from Czech had a good rank I guess on the ITF circuit, and he's way better than this guy.

I understand he's your boy and everything, however, he's got some SERIOUS big time flaws.

Please, don't take it personally.

I am really stunned by what I am reading here, and the assessments of this guys game.

It's all out of left field for me and crazy as bat shit.

I see absolutely none of the things you all are seeing here.

Tennis players are a different breed of athlete from NBA, MMA, Track and Field and NFL) prospects.

We've got a much different standards on athleticism, size, set ups and skill sets.

When I have some time I will share my detailed thoughts on what I see as I don't want to half ass it. Monday, I will post I guess.

I hope everyone picks it apart, rips it, and tells me I don't know shit, as it will help me get a better working in the current paradigm I am trying to set up for myself in tennis.

Perhaps you might agree?

Regards, worldsworsttenniscoachwhoknowsshitaboutgripsandwil lnothavemeaningfulrelationshipswithtenniscoaches

Oh, I'm not going to take it personally, really. He was 1200 in the world or so, I work out with him all the time, and know what kind of player he is.. I've also watched quite a few of my 8 year girls end of playing for the likes of Notre dame, illinois, Wisconsin, Duke, Indiana, to mention a few..So yeah, I know the disparity in playing levels between your daughter and my friend.

But yes, I'll certainly be happy to entertain your thoughts provided theyre not ridiculous comparisons between the two.

[hockeyscout]

Oh, I'm not going to take it personally, really. He was 1200 in the world or so, I work out with him all the time, and know what kind of player he is.. I've also watched quite a few of my 8 year girls end of playing for the likes of Notre dame, illinois, Wisconsin, Duke, Indiana, to mention a few..So yeah, I know the disparity in playing levels between your daughter and my friend.

But yes, I'll certainly be happy to entertain your thoughts provided theyre not ridiculous comparisons between the two.

See what you think of my assessment. Almost done. Gee, a hockey coach assessing a tennis player, this must be a first eh! Its a first for tennis player.net

[hockeyscout]

.

[hockeyscout]

A hockey coaches thoughts ...

My thoughts.

I will do this in parts guys.

First off the guy was warming up.

It wasn't clearly his game face.

However, it was a chaotic warmup, and he wasn't making a concerted effort to get the muscle groups and skill sets fired up like we'd require.

First off I need to see more nuerological engagement.

It's required all the time.

If it's not happening on a high level, improvement will not occur.

Right now in my opinion this player is making a living off a very smart set of hands.

I see on everyone is fixated with the hands, however, I see the ATP 4 and ATP 5 models will move away from the hands, take the racket out of the equation and focus on what is fundamentally important to us coaches in other sports.

That is my vision, and direction.

Now nothing personal against the individual playing here.

I see an athlete that has the kind of habits I do not like to see, he is very lazy.

Now down to the technical aspects.

On his forehand his hip engagement was below average.

His torso is way to elongated. He didn't know, or understand how to properly load his upper body, at all into his swing. He is just standing there, tall. So, as a result their is no load at the base (ball of foot, ankle, knee ect ... the chain of command).

Now, even when the ball was high, he just kind of stood their and attempted to elongate himself into a taller athlete, just to get his VERY SMART racket into position, as opposed to getting up (let me touch on that soon).

And, it was done incorrectly I may add.

Please, watch Micheal Jordan to understand this principal, he didn't have extra hang time like people thought, he just started an athlete driven model of mastering the art of elongation before all his peers, and well, all the NBA skill coaches stole it, understood it, and now everyone is doing it, plus, well more).

It's interesting, tennis coaches hate players who are always jumping into the shot. Hell, we do that every shot! We're trying to build an athlete! We want to see it. Launches into the ball are great. The more you do it, the better you become, and more athletic. Sure, its chaotic, hard to do and you'll lose court position, but who the hell cares. The athlete needs to develop better foot engagment skills to get back to position.

[hockeyscout]

Now, I also like teaching young kids to launch into balls as it disipates a lot of pressures that I do not want on a young body. So, this is where their are the differences I talk about. I am not impressed seeing kids standing, and not being encouraged to be wildly athletic. You will just get better being super wild over the long run.

Now, look at the pro's, the best, the game is getting faster, and when their is a high ball they don't do what Connor's did and back up a few steps and get behind the ball.

They jump, and they leave the ground! More and more. Its the future. Now, why do they leave the ground? To get the racket in the right position? Hell no, its all hip driven. Think with the hip, and get it to the correct position so the hands can take care of themselves. The issue with this player is he thinks, and plays with his racket (and again it's smart, and he can get away with it).

Tennis is not a racket driven game. Its all about getting in correct positioning with the body FIRST (with speed), so you can the racket coming with speed.

If you cannot get the hip in the right position for the swing forget it, go home, and take up lawn bowling.

This is where I had an issue with this film.

Yes, smart hands, however, I see things I do not want to see.

BTW, Connor's, genius in this regards, however, it's not workable today with the speed and spin, although it may be applicable developmental tool for a woman to try and add in some more variety and foot speed. He'd step back and forth, and his mom obviously stole that foot work from fencing LOL. Nice, however, antiquated, yet, we work on it LOTS.

Now, this player is playing the game rib cage up. For me, his torso is so elongates it protracts the load, and loses it's compression. So, he's lost his power to his rather again, SMART HANDS.

Now, with regards to footwork, their is a hell of a lot not to talk about here LOL. The bottom line, this player simply does not know how to load. Even at the net, and yes, the ball was slow, please watch closely how he bows to the ball. Do you see it. He simply did not drop his hips, which is pretty standard. He's not doing anything. All I can say is it's lazy, and please, I am not making judgements on the person, just what I am seeing in this four minute clip consistently. The bottom line here is if your not willing to do it, then their's no point in doing it because all you are doing is training yourself to be a bad tennis player, and after a while it becomes habitual habit.

His hands are so SMART, however, the stroke is lacksadasical for me in all the wrong ways. No load, no rhythm, no hunting and no soft tsuami like power of water flowed explosion to the ball which is so fundamental to every athletic skill set I ever try and do as a mentor. This whole video is slap, slap and more slapping it back. I'd never allow this as my athlete would get worse, and worse, and I'd lose all the great installations I have made. And, somewhere along the line, he got smart hands, however, it was never all tied together professionally (sorry if I sound like a broken record).

Now, back to the footwork. I feel the ATP 4 - 5 will be all hip related, as that is the next evolution.

Again what disapointed me was the rhythm and the flow, because again, he has such nice smart hands.

An athlete in any sport needs to step through his knees and his hips, and the racket needs to come with the knee and the hip. I do not like this stationary hitting he's doing, however, you guys like it. I don't do it, as again, that's bad to do with young kids because it creates pressure points and vibtrations I do not want to create EVER!

No, bottom line, HE HAD NO MOVEMENT FORWARD EVER. And, that is bad as they were playing a game of paddy cake. You always need to move to the ball. I understand you guys like waiting, and I get it, however, I don't like it, it creates pressure points on the athlete and stress, and it's not athletic. If you teach a young kid to move forward, he will be great doing it over and over again, and improve more than a guy who is playing this brand of classical 2014 tennis. So that's what we do, yes, we miss a lot, however, who cares, miss a lot at 8, get good and create offense nuerologically and naturally at 20!

So, he sat and waited. If the ball was high, he slapped high. And if the ball was low he slapped low. Once in a blue moon he'd move back. It something I don't endorse, and it looks strange to me, and again, its all about creating an projectable athlete, and doing this will never get you over that hump.

[hockeyscout]

I understand how you want control, and to wait for the ball, however, I just don't like it. In any sport. I am working on a lot of NFL engagement movement, and what he is doing as a tennis player is strange.

Its pretty easy to get a bead on this player. You'll always be completely ready for that player who is just standing their like a stickman and just focused on getting the ball back to you.

Now, if this guy with smart hands (yes, they are smart) could flow into the ball better like I teach anyone on the other side would be at a major disadvantage major disadvantage on the other side of the net because that is hard to play against as Mr. Agassi taught us. The good player change rhythm, pace and speed, however, this guy is one pace at all times. I don't want to see that, even in practice, always change it up. It's what made Andy Murray a special player over many other who had more gifts. His mama knew what she was doing in that regard! Control the tempo of the game, and understand it, that is what any coach in any sport wants his athletes to understand.

The bellybutton is the key here for this player. My best way of explaining the problem here is his belly button is pointing down. It needs to go through the ball, however, it goes down to much for my liking towards a ground base which sure doesn't help give his SMART HANDS (I like his hands) their full wow value. The belly button issue (and I am sure Klacr gets this all being a hell of swimmer back in his day) results in the torso to elongates (touched on it earlier) and this results in his all-important hip pointers dropping to the ground. So, as a result here, no torque out of the torso.

So, what I want all of you to do is think of the torso right now as a spring okay? So, you twist it, and when you release it, you let it go. However, if you drop the hip pointer then what happens the torso splays (like opens up in simple terms) and buckles in a way its not meant to function. Now, take a coiled spring, and twist it laterally, and let it go and you will get a huge slap back. Now, if you take that same spring and bend it, make a C out of it, you will get no power! Aha, magic, that is what is happening here. That is what he is doing in the video. Buckling isn't HUGE, however, he's bending it back in C with the front splaying, and then he tries to rotate, and it doesn't worked because it is double torqued and it ends up ovviously cancelling power.

Now, the question, what should he be doing ideally? Well a million things I'd do, however, what I would want to stress is getting the hip pointers towards the ball. I think they need to go where you want the ball to go when you are dealing with eight year olds at the start of the skill-set, set up phase, and that is what we are consiously doing right now in our developmental platform.

I just hated the backhand, sorry, ZERO load and all arm action. No footwork and to much standing sqaure. Truthfully, I do not even know where to start on that point. He's just pointlessly whacking it. If Eskimoos in Canada did that with seals they'd never eat, or have to buy shotguns. I want to see more mid-torso flexion, if I could only make on comment, and a bigger load to the ball.

Now their are some nice things that he is doing, a number of them. He does, despite all of this utter chaos, he does manage to make contact with the ball out front not bad, because, well, he's talented, but raw and so unrefined. The problem is, no one has shown him how to truly create power to that point. This is where a hockey coach could help, as that is what we do, create real power towards our numerous points of contact (whatever they may be, their are 100's). To get back to good things -- the dude has a smart racket.

Now, in terms of the strokes, I would change TONS of stuff. However, YOU CANNOT teach the hands until you have the rest of the house in order. I think teaching the ATP 3 is a chaotic enterprise unless you put in place all of the setups (and 1000's more) I have outlined above. Its a long term approach on the court, in the gym and on the mats. You can't shortcut it, and if you do this ATP will always fall apart for you, and their will be conistency issues.

Now, in this video the man is cruising. And, yes, you need to cruise at times to get good, however, when we do this it's HIGHLY engaged cruising. And, its in rhythm (proper). This players issue again is he's so fixated on this racket. I AM NOT. If the bulk of your body is in the wrong spot, then you can have Roger Federer's hands, and it is not going to happen for you. He's doing remarkably well for the way he is trying to play, however, its all rib cage up. He needs to play from the ball of his foot up. Tennis, like hockey, is played with the whole body.

Now, I want to END WITH THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL if anyone is still reading LOL!

When he finishes his stroke his feet are absolutely functionally dead. Gone. Over. That's never good. They need to be turned ON 24-7. In the follow through of your stroke you should always be resetting your feet. Now that's a whole science we are really into, and I could go on all day about this, and what we are doing with the using that momentum to lead into a brilliant next shot. It constantly amazes me how some players (like this one) refuse to use that momentum when they got everything going and flowing nice for them. This guys is stopping, restarting and resetting continually, and it is causing him not to flourish. He hits the ball and he feels complete. Big mistake. Its our problem here as well in Ukraine, and its so hard to teach! Zombie tennis player who feels he or she is done when they hit the ball. Its so hard to sell athletes sometimes on the importance of never cancelling out, because if you do you have to do three things to get it back, and that often results in the hands and racket head going chaotic.

The thing about it, this dude has done the hard work, he knows essentially what he can do, however, 2/3 of what he needs us hockey people can built with hockey coach, or MMA, or NFL finishing school.

And FYI, every coach in another sport would see these things as it's sport. Your problems coaching tennis are the same as ours, and you've got an advantage because your athlete isn't under physical pressure of getting hit.

These weak areas are so easy to train out!

[bottle]

Guys, I'm just an old English teacher, an admission apt to draw unreasonable wrath. But I'll say to you what I say to my partner, and she never likes it. Where is the antecedent? What or whom are you talking about? Some video near the beginning of this thread? Why not identify it better then, what would be wrong with that? Or copy and paste its url so we could easily bring it up again. I know, you'd rather have us scroll back, do unnecessary work to figure things out. Well, I refuse. I don't know what's being talked about. So you get a D- .

Okay, forget English. English is too much. But let's introduce Journalism 101 for everyone. Who where when what and how.

[hockeyscout]

Guys, I'm just an old English teacher, an admission apt to draw unreasonable wrath. But I'll say to you what I say to my partner, and she never likes it. Where is the antecedent? What or whom are you talking about? Some video near the beginning of this thread? Why not identify it better then, what would be wrong with that? Or copy and paste its url so we could easily bring it up again. I know, you'd rather have us scroll back, do unnecessary work to figure things out. Well, I refuse. I don't know what's being talked about. So you get a D- .

Okay, forget English. English is too much. But let's introduce Journalism 101 for everyone. Who where when what and how.

I am so sorry Bottle.

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xPhB...ature=youtu.be

I am just going through you serve thread right now, I sure appreciate all the work you've put in there, and we are searching it right. left and center to find golden nuggets. Talk about great data mining.