Racket Head Speed

[bobbyswift]

Mark Kovaks of the Usta also feels that tennis is not a running sport. He is a good resource for tennis athletic training in the USA.

[bobbyswift]

The functional movement screen is from Grey Cook. I have sent may clients to him and the trainer who works with me is certified from him. He has a book that covers a lot of the movement screen. Athletic Body in Balance. We have tested our athletes with this system for years. HS has been posting about movement however I have sent my clients 2 top 120 ranked ATP pros to an Olympic track coach Chuck Debus who felt his work had basically no effect for tennis players. After 6 months no improvement that was apparent. Chuck has trained more gold medalists than just about any USA track coach.

[tennis_chiro]

Couple of Questions for HockeyScout

HS,

I appreciate there is an awful lot I do not know. I wish I could afford to do the FMS seminar in San Diego this weekend, but I can't. It looks like interesting stuff. I wonder if there are any books you could recommend that would offer a better understanding of the principles of FMS and the underlying philosophy. Better yet, with all the certifications you've obtained in movement science, it would be great if you gave us your top five books to look at to get some sense of what it is all about.

But I also wonder what you think of some of the players of the past and what kind of movement skills they had. I'm not sure Nastase had movement skills as good as Djokovic or Murray, but strictly subjectively, he was the best mover I ever saw on a tennis court and seemingly completely natural. Along those lines, where would you rank Rosewall or Laver? Borg or even Connors who tennis classicists consider to have had great footwork? Have you seen tapes of Gonzales moving. I know there is limited footage of him available in his early years, but there is some and quite a bit more from the late 60's and early 70's. You mentioned moving like a cat; I don't think anyone's movement has ever been compared more to a cat's than Gonzales'; whether or not the analogy is really fair is another question. If this FMS doesn't rate the movement of Gonzales and Nastase as superior, I would have to seriously question the principles on which it is based.

Tennis is very different in that you must separate upper and lower body (legs going as fast as they can even as the upper body/hands stay as calm as possible and measure the incoming ball) and then harness the power of the lower body to generate real power.

don

[hockeyscout]

Hello:

First off 10splayer, look I commend you. I can see you have read a few books, took some USTA courses and visited tennisplayer. I am sure you have had a bit of success, and got a few kids to D1 schools. And, that's just great. Good for you.

[hockeyscout]

HS,

Refresh my memory is the post above based on the analysis of some clip?

Yup. Its somewhere in the thread.

[johnyandell]

HS,

Refresh my memory is the post above based on the analysis of some clip?

[hockeyscout]

Talk about doggedness hockeyscout...

Runs in the family ... DNA.

[hockeyscout]

10splayer ... advice ...

Form depicts function. No way around it. Anyone who says different is crazy. You can't argue with good science.

[gzhpcu]

Talk about doggedness hockeyscout...

[hockeyscout]

I appreciate this DB, I really do...As you might suspect, i have opinions about this, and much to say. (and interested in other's take on it) It's a topic that actually really interests me. But alas, not sure that's possible, as I'm not going to get into it. Not now, not worth it. You're right..

But yeah, I wish the young lady the very best. She's obviously totally committed and passionate about the game. Love seeing that, and am always rooting for a kid like that!

A real man would answer the questions, or say, I do not have the technical capabilities to take this athlete any further, and I just don't know.

So, a few questions for the experts (and 10splayer) - tell me specifically what you assessment thoughts are on these points, and how you propose they get fixed?

1. Tell me what you are seeing in his hip pointers bio-mechanically?

2. Are you concerned with the belly button position (pointing down)?

3. What about his torso elongation?

4. Are you concerned about the splay and buckling?

5. Discuss the double torque, and cancellation of power that's occurring here?

Any thoughts here to specific questions?

[10splayer]

My dear old friend Leon once said to me…"you have to be a man about it." That one comment has served me in many situations in life.

Well played 10splayer. I read the whole thing. There is much to say about this and that and the other thing…but we'll just leave it at that. No sense in everyone getting their panties in a snit. No sense in getting into a meaningless pissing contest. But this one comment shows a touch of class…which is all that you could possibly salvage in a conversation such as this. You more than held your own…in case anyone is wondering. Any questions?

What a pity too. There were some things that needed to be said about tennis movement and racquet head speed…but they will wait. They will wait for another day. Just as in Ed Weiss' other thread regarding his student. I made the decision that my comments will wait there too. I simply walked away…my ego doesn't need it. There is no point in forcing the play…just let the game come to you. Have patience. Just wait…until the opportunity presents itself. The uniqueness of tennis has taught me much…as has golf. The pursuits of gentlemen. At least it used to be that way.

It's a shame too. That one must be discounted as a whole based on a stupid video. The manipulation of the conversation is obvious…it's obvious who is who here. Again…nice play. To leave on a gracious note is commendable.

Your arch nemesis…don_budge.

I appreciate this DB, I really do...As you might suspect, i have opinions about this, and much to say. (and interested in other's take on it) It's a topic that actually really interests me. But alas, not sure that's possible, as I'm not going to get into it. Not now, not worth it. You're right..

But yeah, I wish the young lady the very best. She's obviously totally committed and passionate about the game. Love seeing that, and am always rooting for a kid like that!

[don_budge]

From the Arch Nemesis...

I hope things work out for your daughter (i really do).

My dear old friend Leon once said to me…"you have to be a man about it." That one comment has served me in many situations in life.

Well played 10splayer. I read the whole thing. There is much to say about this and that and the other thing…but we'll just leave it at that. No sense in everyone getting their panties in a snit. No sense in getting into a meaningless pissing contest. But this one comment shows a touch of class…which is all that you could possibly salvage in a conversation such as this. You more than held your own…in case anyone is wondering. Any questions?

What a pity too. There were some things that needed to be said about tennis movement and racquet head speed…but they will wait. They will wait for another day. Just as in Ed Weiss' other thread regarding his student. I made the decision that my comments will wait there too. I simply walked away…my ego doesn't need it. There is no point in forcing the play…just let the game come to you. Have patience. Just wait…until the opportunity presents itself. The uniqueness of tennis has taught me much…as has golf. The pursuits of gentlemen. At least it used to be that way.

It's a shame too. That one must be discounted as a whole based on a stupid video. The manipulation of the conversation is obvious…it's obvious who is who here. Again…nice play. To leave on a gracious note is commendable.

Your arch nemesis…don_budge.

[hockeyscout]

First of all, this is my fault. I know better then to get into conversations like this, with fathers like you. The kind that has never actually played the game, or developed one. The extent of there experience being introducing their kid to tennis. The kind that doesn't know the difference between how an eight year old girl hits, and a player who reached 1200 in the world. Or for that matter, an inability to even appreciate that kind of skill. It speaks volumes. I hope things work out for your daughter (i really do). You might want to consider a little humility if her success is the goal.

Nice “Tennis Dad” jab. You can't do better than that can you? Doesn’t work with me. 10stennis, I would suggest you get up to speed in proper athletic foundations, and footwork. What you are saying now is so out to lunch it is not even funny.

You posted this video and stated:

"Here's a buddy of mine hitting. Relaxed, rhythmic in the backswing and really pours it on towards contact. Really knows how to use the tool. Nice action and effortlessly heavy ball."

10splayer, this is in no way a nice action, effortless or a heavy ball.
As I said before, his torso is way to elongated, he can't load properly, isn't dropping his hips, never once is the racket coming through with the knees and the hips, belly button is pointing down, questionable athletic bowing is occuring and his hip pointers are dropping to the ground way to much! VERY basic stuff. Don't care if it is warmup, practice or a game, these elements will be in place all the time.

Please read this SPECIFIC point of my post:

"So, what I want all of you to do is think of the torso right now as a spring okay? So, you twist it, and when you release it, you let it go. However, if you drop the hip pointer then what happens the torso splays (like opens up in simple terms) and buckles in a way its not meant to function. Now, take a coiled spring, and twist it laterally, and let it go and you will get a huge slap back. Now, if you take that same spring and bend it, make a C out of it, you will get no power! Aha, magic, that is what is happening here. That is what he is doing in the video. Buckling isn't HUGE, however, he's bending it back in C with the front splaying, and then he tries to rotate, and it doesn't worked because it is double torqued and it ends up ovviously cancelling power."

You know, I never even went into anything complex here. I just discussed some real ABC basics.

You say: "really pours it on towards contact" -- sorry, that's just laughable. Seriously. Come on, who are you trying to fool. Really, I am not that stupid.

I will repeat again, it's so important players get quality coaching.

Dramatics aside, it would just be great if you could tell me how you plan to solve these issues:

You never did answer the questions.

1. Tell me what you are seeing in his hip pointers bio-mechanically?

2. Are you concerned with the belly button position (pointing down)?

3. What about his torso elongation?

4. Are you concerned about the splay and buckling?

5. Discuss the double torque, and cancellation of power that's occurring here?

[10splayer]

This is what a NFL linebacker runs like by the way out of college (not even close yet to a pro). Do you think your athlete is even close to this seriously? And, these are RAW college kids who are three to four years away from developmentally being all-stars in the NFL. Raw kids with a LOT of mechanical flaws.

This is what a coach in another sport see's EVERY day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TbyLp27ldc

These guys are 6'3" to 6'5", and in the 240 range.

Last thought, foot work is a complex science and it's best if the experts handle it without interference. It's sad watching the "tennis player" in the video. He's got projectable hands. No one did ANY developmental work below the rib cage because they did not know how. His "tennis coaching team" should have turned him over to some more advanced coaches (those who work in MMA, NHL, NFL, NBA and Track - Field), watched, learned and implemented others into their "team"coaching environment.

This guys issues (which were outlined very clearly) would have been solved in six months by a NFL level linebacking coach.

I guess that is what separates the world number 1300's from the world top ten is good coaching..

First of all, this is my fault. I know better then to get into conversations like this, with fathers like you. The kind that has never actually played the game, or developed one. The extent of there experience being introducing their kid to tennis. The kind that doesn't know the difference between how an eight year old girl hits, and a player who reached 1200 in the world. Or for that matter, an inability to even appreciate that kind of skill.


It speaks volumes.


I hope things work out for your daughter (i really do). You might want to consider a little humility if her success is the goal.

[hockeyscout]

The questions ...

1. Tell me what you are seeing in his hip pointers bio-mechanically?

2. Are you concerned with the belly button position (pointing down)?

3. What about his torso elongation?

4. Are you concerned about the splay and buckling?

5. Discuss the double torque, and cancellation of power that's occurring here?

Any thoughts here to specific questions?