Interactive Forum: August 2014: Eugenie Bouchard: Coming Forward

[jeffreycounts]

Her contact point is still incredibly cramped to this day. To me double bent or arm straight at contact is both accepted. How I am judging her forehand is that her shoulder is to adducted to her body. Novak would be a good contact point for her to imitate as he is bent at the elbow but his shoulder is away abducted from his core or lats. Hard to judge if contact is out in front from this angle.

That's an interesting point - I said the contact point is out in front due to her elbow positioning. Her elbow is well in front of her body plane on contact. But I totally agree about being too close in to the body. I thought that maybe it was just because of the ball feed, but if you notice she always hits this close in, that could be a problem.

Like you said - if you look at Djokovic you would see the elbow and arm much farther away from the body.

Shoulder abduction - that is an interesting term. Does that mean lifting the arm away from the body?

[bobbyswift]

Yes Her current forehand is on tennis one. A website that I wouldn't rush to join. Basically no content. Your hi tech site was a huge help to me.

[jeffreycounts]

Yes Her current forehand is on tennis one. A website that I wouldn't rush to join. Basically no content. Your hi tech site was a huge help to me.

Thank - appreciate you letting me know!

David Ferrer is a player that I also think hits in too close to his body as well - both backhand and forehand. Shoulder abduction!

[hockeyscout]

I have tried to teach the ATP to girls but with limited success.

Doesn't surprise me.

[hockeyscout]

jeffreycounts

jeffreycounts -- I really appreciate you taking the time to comment on this thread. I never noticed your thoughts before on this forum, however, after reading your wonderful informed posts I think I am going to back track and find all the comment items. You by chance don't have any papers or links online that you have written. You look like a pretty legit coach. Thanks again for taking the time to write here.

[stotty]

I think she has great technique already but lansdorf was a bit rough in what he said,guess he coached sharapova for a long time and hated that comparison. Didn't come across as a nice guy to me,though looking at who he's coached over the years Sampras and cheater sharapova he's clearly a fantastic coach.

[stotty]

She just needs to focus on raising the elbow slightly on the backswing as the radius of the swing is too big. She's fine when it's short but when she's rushed she will struggle of a deep ball. Then again this is an old video though I was very impressed with that clip.

[johnyandell]

Filming here at that age she loved coming forward!

[bottle]

jeffreycounts

jeffreycounts -- I really appreciate you taking the time to comment on this thread. I never noticed your thoughts before on this forum, however, after reading your wonderful informed posts I think I am going to back track and find all the comment items. You by chance don't have any papers or links online that you have written. You look like a pretty legit coach. Thanks again for taking the time to write here.

He is. He's great. He's even the kind of guy who thinks, "This guy ought to be talking to this guy." And then he makes it happen.

[bottle]

The forehand in this clip is a huge example of the aeronautical banking (like a small plane) that Welby Van Horn talks about in SECRETS OF A TRUE TENNIS MASTER by Ed Weiss. But is this much of it a good idea? I'm not sure.

[klacr]

He is. He's great. He's even the kind of guy who thinks, "This guy ought to be talking to this guy." And then he makes it happen.

Regarding Jeffrey Counts, I agree. Excellent tennis mind. Thirst for knowledge and understanding

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[hockeyscout]

Eugenie Bouchard: Coming Forward

In his interview in this month's issue of Tennisplayer (click here), Nick Saviano discusses, among many things, how Eugenie Bouchard's game is based on taking the ball early and coming forward. As it happens John Yandell had the chance to film her practicing just that at the age of 13 at Nick's Florida academy.

Does she look eager and completely natural--not to mention athletic? What about the beauty and technical simplicity of her approach and forehand volley? Share your thoughts!

I am not enthusiastic. Very un-athletic and poor motor control for a high-end world class thirteen-year-old. Some random thoughts here. I really don’t like the double hops, and complete lack of hip flexor activation. Watch how baseball players approach the ball and release it when throwing to first base. Basic athletic function - necessary across the board in every sport. I once shared a 14 year old Ronald Washington - perfect movement.

Back to Eugene - the knees sure cave in badly, and she isn’t able to get her feet apart into a pro stance. You need range to make the court smaller, and I see nothing there. Look at how close her feet are together, and how badly the knees cave in. I absolutely dislike how she has a nose for the ball, and pitches her collarbone towards target. Her hips are constantly in the wrong slot. Watch when she hits the ball how she is unable to physically step down to it, and open up her hip (like all the great ones do since Tilden or Budge or Borg or Agassi or Federer. No rhythm, flow or continuity of momentum to speak of - she is just hitting a ball. She compensates for this by with a bigger swing. Hate how I can see the racket head lagging behind her shoulder.

Her hamstrings are a mess as well, look how she is unable to kick back her back foot as she comes to the net. That's pretty vital to do. Watch Agassi, or Federer, counterbalance is an area they excel in. Watch em serve, return to serve or when they are driving a ball and coming to the net. Its purposeful and well though out balance work in action. Very easy to spot a well trained female athlete - test her quad to hamstring ratio, and dorsiflexion power. Tells you everything you need to know. Lacking here.

The right foot is problematic as well, watch how it buckels underneath her on two occasions, and how she goes heel to toe on the last movement. Good luck with a low ball at the net. Again. its not flowing. Watch Ozzie Smith in baseball, he floats to the ball, its pretty. He could have been a hell of a tennis player with his scientific movement.

Why coaches never teach there athletes to write and draw with their feet is beyond me. I see so many tennis players with ankle braces and orthotics. I see so many doctors correct feet with orthotics, tape and mummifying the feet. It's nuts. Coaches are scared to do two things - properly build up the feet, and train the neck - spine area. You used to be able to tell a great athlete by looking at their neck. Now, no one trains it. Insane, and it is a big reason for concussions. Running shoes never used to be like high heels. This big huge foam! Crazy. I hate these new age tennis shoes with their great support, and it looks like Eugenie was raised in tennis shoes. I like training kids in bare feet or minimalist shoes right from birth. I see all these shoes with the raised heel, and foam, and it sure leads to a lot big time gait issues (which I see in Bouchard). She's slapping her feet with every step, losing momentum and buckling.

Woman are tough to train, and cannot get to an ATP 3 because you need to make so many corrections, and build in correct neurology. Woman are designed to produce babies, and they have an issue due to elasticity and looseness in the hips (this causes there overcompensation in the shoulders).

For a woman, something like keeping your feet wide apart to support this improperly aligned structure, quite important! Do we see it. No. Watch Troy Aikman throw, feet wide apart, stepping in beautifully and with rhythm. That's world class. Step down, and step into the ball, fire the hip and flow through to your next. I see slap, slap, buckle, cave in and heel to toe, and way to much work. I hate work, I like simple and easy.

There is a real reason why woman have higher rates of osteoarthritis than men, and why men get it in the hips and woman get it in knees. Weak pecs, poor hamstrings and general lack of ability to deactivate and activate the quads and gluts are real issues with the woman, and in this case a young Eugenie. Put your daughter in high heels, or these strong supportive tennis shoes, and trust me, she will learn to live off her quad. At 13 to 16 Eugenie (and girls like her) start dealing with the estrogen spike. That's problematic because the joints get more mobile. If you’re not stepping into the ball right, and if you’re overcompensating, well, major issues.

All in all I think this poor base setup resulted in her slipping to number 40 in the world.

So, for me, no, the base at 13 is not where it needs to be in my opinion.

[hockeyscout]

[hockeyscout]

But, I will add in one more thing. I will tell you what - I thought that Maria Shishkina was going to be a world beater. In terms of being functionally athletic - at 11, a stud, great hands and she won. Light years ahead of Bouchard. But, she was a midget, and had durability issues. The British girl as well was better (Robson). Yes, I am unimpressed with Bouchard. But, she did manage to get all the way to the Wimbledon final. So, she compensated and overcame a lot of these issues to her credit and had a pretty unusual level of durability for all her flaws in movement.

[bdole]

I am not enthusiastic. Very un-athletic and poor motor control for a high-end world class thirteen-year-old. Some random thoughts here. I really don’t like the double hops, and complete lack of hip flexor activation. Watch how baseball players approach the ball and release it when throwing to first base. Basic athletic function - necessary across the board in every sport. I once shared a 14 year old Ronald Washington - perfect movement.

hockeyscout, fantastic post! Appreciate your insight.
I thought her movement above the hips looked very good, especially at such a young age.