Help Kindly Requested on Junior Player

[10splayer]

http://youtu.be/6j8fzQMJFX4

Bobby, before I answer your question on Roddick, I want you to take a look at this video...Hopefully it will further shed light on my opinion not just with Andy, but with all elite servers.

I generally dont get too caught up in the way a player configures the racquet at the point when the legs bend. I don't believe a player has to be in a classic "trophy position" (with the shaft standing up) at this critical reference point. (ala Fed) However, the position of the upper arm, is critical. James is a good example. Even though the shaft of racquet is not "standing up" as the knees begin to bend, the upper arm is more or less fully abducted. It's obvious, james is trying to "lag" the racquet a bit in order to carry some momentum into the downward trek..Perfectly acceptable....

In this regard, Andy's motion passes the sniff test. It is very quirky. With the hitting arm (at trophy position) way out to the right, AND the shaft laid down (parallel to the ground), it appears the right arm is riding low. However, if you look at humerus in relationship to the torso, it looks to be elevated enough..least thats what i see. One things for sure, he can pull it off.

In the final analysis, there are many windups, and ways to sequence, but most all elite servers have most all of the abduction process completed BEFORE the legs start to drive. In the case of this student, it occurs AFTER the legs begin to push.

Kudos to ED btw. It's obvious that he is a professional and is concerned about the kid. It takes guts to put this up for scrutiny...However, anyone who has taught the game, knows, that these little bugs can creep into a players game right before our eyes..Certainly has with me...

[bobbyswift]

I completely agree with everything you said. I was interested about Roddick and your take makes sense. At maximum knee bend the student were talking about does not look like Andy either. But I see the position if the forearm that Andy has often and was wondering if that ever needs to be addressed.

[bobbyswift]

Or even asking can this be a positive. Ivo Karlivic
has same position. Racket has to travel somewhat farther in same time frame to contact.

[10splayer]

I completely agree with everything you said. I was interested about Roddick and your take makes sense. At maximum knee bend the student were talking about does not look like Andy either. But I see the position if the forearm that Andy has often and was wondering if that ever needs to be addressed.

Haha, the last thing i'd do (if Andy's coach) would be to say anything to him bout his serve. Hell, there might be some residual benefit to what he does..(least for him) All i know is Andy is strong as hell, has a shoulder like a gorilla, and can pull it off. Wouldn't suggest it, though, for the layman.

But yeah, it's interesting to see how these guys do what they do..

The more i look at his serve, the more peculiar it looks.

[10splayer]

Or even asking can this be a positive. Ivo Karlivic
has same position. Racket has to travel somewhat farther in same time frame to contact.

Yes i see your point and that is the dichotomy. There probably is some benefit to entering the back with some momentum...which occurs when you lag, or increase the distance the racquet has to travel....However, it becomes increasingly more difficult to sync the racquet progresssions with the leg drive...

And that's a very delicate timing issue, but the cornerstone to a great serve...In fact, when the arm progressions are out of whack with the leg drive, it can totally destroy the timing, rhythm, etc of the serve.

[EdWeiss]

New Video of Serve

I have attached below a link to a new video of the serve reflecting the work we have been doing based on the suggestions of the contributors. I would say it was one of the better his better attempts. There is a regular speed and then a slow motion version in the video. I think the serve looks better. We took (1) Don Brosseau's suggestion of a higher starting positions so as to take advantage of the gravity drop of the racket to help avoid the staggered position, (2) emphasized the down together up together concept as suggested by 10splayer (the student still staggers but I think it is better), (3) try to keep the elbow up per Stotty and others and (4) add some leg drive per many of you. Let me know what you think. I know Don B. would say he prefers that he rock the weight unto the front foot as his toss arm is going up. Thanks!

p.s., the student's mom has done all of the filming. At best I am the executive producer of the videos.

Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW5Nbe_l5DE&feature=em-share_video_user

[EdWeiss]

thought on above video

On the video I just posted above, the arm seems quite straight to me at the 52 second mark in the video. So the question is: is this a problem or an idiosyncrasy that is okay? Thoughts appreciated.

[bobbyswift]

Shoulder is way better. Now needs to get more elbow flexion especially earlier. I would film from other side with the goal of 90 degrees elbow flexion by maximum knee flexion. Big improvement already.

[10splayer]

Shoulder is way better. Now needs to get more elbow flexion especially earlier. I would film from other side with the goal of 90 degrees elbow flexion by maximum knee flexion. Big improvement already.

Yup!!!

[tennis_chiro]

Big improvement!

That's a huge change in the arm position. It seems like he has achieved most of what has been described in this discussion about his low elbow relative to the line of the shoulders. Very good.

And as for the weight transfer (and sometimes I feel like you guys are just putting up with my insistence on the importance of this element), Ed, he is actually starting forward sooner in the Aug 4 video. Look at the movement of his head against the opposite fence relative to when the ball leaves his hand. In the previous video, there was no movement at all until the ball was out of his hand; now it starts before the ball leaves his hand. You can even see it on youtube thanks to the slow motion!

Nice job, Ed! But how did he feel about it?

don

[EdWeiss]

Thanks Bobby, 10splayer and Don. As for Don's question, the player feels good about the change. He can see it improves the serve.

[stotty]

Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW5Nb...are_video_user

I have to say that is amazing improvement in a remarkably short space of time. I'm seriously impressed. Some of contributions and insights on this thread have been amazingly good, skilful.

It's been an education...it really has.

[EdWeiss]

Respone of Junior Player

Below is the response of the junior player you saw. I have not made any changes to what he wrote. When I thought something needed an explanation or I had a thought I have placed that explanation or thought in bracketed text. Here it is:

“I am the player on the video and would like to thank you all for the time and advice you have given me. I am sorry for not responding sooner and I really appreciate your views, perspectives, advice, hints, and encouragements. I am overwhelmed by the response I have received in this community.

I will work to improve my footwork and become a better person and tennis player. With the guidance of my coach, I will strengthen my weakness as pointed out by the contributors and become a better competitor. I also want to apologize beforehand if I'm humdrum or repetitive in my analysis.

The serve:

I believe the main problem with my serve is using my legs to explode upwards to contact the ball at the highest point without bringing my head down. Usually, the reason I will miss my serve is because I duck my head down before or at contact bringing my entire body down which leads to my serve going into the net. I have had the elbow problem before; Ed has told me to have it higher. Before I was injured [EW Note: the junior player was out 5 months in the past 12 months due to two back stress fractures; after the second one occurred, we were able to get him to a very top flight M.D. who specialized in back problems and he also connected with an excellent physical therapist and a trainer. He has been pain free after returning from the second stress fracture], if I remember correctly, my elbow was in line with the tossing arm and my two shoulders. The problem seems to have come back after my injury and I will work to adjust and fix it. My rhythm on the serve, as pointed out by contributors, is nonexistent. I have worked with Ed, with the suggestions of Don to use gravity drop of the racket on my serve. By bringing my racquet higher at the start, I can let the racquet drop with gravity allowing it to always be the same, giving me the same start wherever I play. Roger keeps the racquet lower, but since I am unable to do this, I need to resort to other methods. From there I need to keep my racquet straight moving up to the trophy position making sure my elbow doesn't drop, using the up together/down together motion suggested by 10splayer. Through repetition, I think I can get this part pretty much exactly the same every time. Here comes the tricky part, I think my racquet drop is ok, I could be lower but for now I can live with it. The contact as Kyle noted is off since my racket hand is in line with the ball when, instead, the contact point should be inside the hand so I can get more spin. Since I'm not 6'5”, I cannot hit a complete flat serve without little margin for error over the net. So I need to hit more spin and pronate the wrist to get as much snap as possible on my serve. After exploding upwards and landing, I need to quickly split step back behind the baseline and be ready to hit the next ball. Ed has helped me with my placement on my serve by making me always serve with cones. I still need to work on my out wide serve on both sides to open up the court better. Once I can hit both serves very well, I can use my forehand to place myself ahead in the point by hitting my first ball to the open court or behind my opponent. I should always try to hit my first ball as a forehand.

Return:

As stated by some, I have no clear plan on my return. I mostly try to simply place the ball back in past the service line. This is not enough; I need to have a clear plan of returning the ball to my opponent’s weakness or placing the ball in a place where I would be put in an offensive position. Too many of my returns are neutral or defensive. Some of my returns are offensive and I back up, losing the advantage, I have in the point. I need to commit more to my returns. My first serve returns should be mostly blocked back deep to my opponents backhand and I need to recover to the correct position as quickly as possible. My second serve return should be hit inside the baseline and be a much more offensive shot. I should not miss returns, instead of hitting them hard I should place them, this would make them more accurate and more consistent; please correct me if I'm wrong. I also need to moving forward and through the return giving me more power and putting pressure on the serve to make a great serve.

Backhand:

Probably the most important thing that needs to change is the footwork. Getting the back foot in line with the ball and stepping in is extremely important. My split step and movement to the ball needs to be better, I need to use my legs more on the backhand to generate more power. Then after I hit, I need to recover well and prepare for the next ball. I can try to mimic Agassi's movement across the court, wasting little movement to each ball. I should also work on reading the ball off my opponent’s racquet; this will help me get to the ball quick and get into position. Since I play more of an offensive style, I shouldn't be 5ft or 10ft behind the baseline hitting backhands. Many players LOVE to loop high spinny balls to my backhands, which of course is difficult to hit. I need to work on taking the ball of the rise to save moving and to prevent from leaving a short ball.
I think the stroke is good; there are a few tweaks that need to be fixed. I think someone mentioned that the racquet could be kept closer to the shoulder on the take back. The left hand needs to be thrown back after contact and I should bring my left foot around to help me recover. The head needs to be kept still at contact and I need to extend outward and upward while finishing over the shoulder and suppunate the wrist at the end. Now I'm much more confident hitting a backhand, which can be a curse since I'm satisfied hitting a backhand when I could hit a forehand. I need to always try to hit my forehand and use my backhand to set up my forehand. I also take WAY too many backhands crosscourt. I only slice down the line, practically every topspin is crosscourt. When I do hit backhands down the line, the ball seems to land in the middle of the court rather than a foot away from the sideline, something I need to work on. I could probably use my backhand to hit angles to then set up my forehand, any other suggestions are welcomed.

I think I have developed both the Rosewall slice and the Federer slice bu I just don't use them as effectively as I can. Like some of you have said, it is a matter of intent. I think I become too satisfied by floating the slice when I should be "stepping down," loading and hitting the slice 1 inch over the net. I tend to slice down instead of flowing through. This needs to change, but I think it’s just up to me to focus and hit the correct slice. Also, I need help understanding when to use the slice. Should it be used to neutralize the point, variety or as an offensive weapon, or all three?

Response to be continued in next post

[EdWeiss]

continuation of response of junior player

Forehand:

My forehand is my weapon; I should develop my strategy around my forehand and hitting as many forehands as possible. My first shot after my serve should always be my forehand and I don't do that. I wrote before that a lot of the time I hit backhands when I have the opportunity to hit a forehand. I need to use my legs more to get into position and load and release the hips during the swing. Someone mentioned that my hip flexors are firing incorrectly, I need to make sure the hips fire then the shoulder and arm. I need to go through the ball, extend, and finish over the shoulder. My racquet head on the take back needs to be up not pointing to the net. The elbow cannot be raised and needs to be kept lower and closer to the hip. The most important part is to keep the head still. Many of my mistakes are from "pulling off" the head. I need to get my hips into the ball more, load into the ground, and then explode up to generate power. I can probably put more variety into my shot: angles, drop shots, high spinny balls, and flat balls.

Volleys:

I should be finishing as many points as possible. My game caters to a more offensive style of play and I need to be finishing at the net. My volleys are much better than most of my opponents and I should take advantage of that. I need to close hard and make sure I can hit as many volleys over the height of the net. I need to get low and split and move diagonal towards the ball. I need to make sure I don’t drop my racquet head and to not "cup" under the ball. I need to keep my backswing short and compact, I cannot bring my racquet too far back and get my power from my body moving forward. Ed has told me, volleys are "90% confidence and 10% skill.” [EW note: I have told him that being confident and having an aggressive mindset at the net while still keeping your hands relaxed is the most important thing for a net player, at least in my view] Ed has worked a lot on volleys with me and the more I start to come in during matches the better my volleys will be.
For overheads, I need to remember to turn sideways, move my feet, and get into position to hit the best ball possible. Most overheads should angles which are more effective and don't need to be hit as hard as possible.
I think everything that I’ve stated above are everything I need to change, but I’ve probable missed things to change. My footwork is the probably the most important to change right now, getting to the ball and in position is probably the most urgent. My recovery, split step, and movement to the ball need to be better. I will try to improve it with the movement without a ball drill and others with Ed. I think I'm using my legs a lot more on my groundstroke’s now, but I will need to check with Ed. I also need to work on staying positive during my matches and staying focused on every shot. I cannot lose points without fighting for each ball. I need to compete hard and not give up.
I again want to thank you for all the advice and will implement all the technical and strategic aid you've given me.

Thank you,

Junior Player

For hockeyscout:

For some reason, my physician doesn't have my blood type on record.

A daily diet might consist of:
Bagel/pancakes, chocolate milk, fruit
Pasta with tomato sauce, soy milk/coconut water, ice cream
Risotto, bread, soymilk, ice cream”

[klacr]

Awesome!!!

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton