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That works! I like these ideas!Comment
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I missed a phase. This where I stand behind the player and use a thin stick to tap the elbow if it sinks too low...or I use it to raise the elbow up as he is actually serving.Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
StottyComment
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The shoulder miss positioned what we are calling low elbow. The kid has done a great job modeling strokes after Federer. Take cell phone from the side view show him what he is doing. Show him Federer. Explain shoulder abduction. Let him hit some serves. Re video. Now he can see what he feels. If not right have him exaggerate. When you re video and he is happy with it keep as benchmark and your off to fixing it.Comment
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What we need is a cell phone video viewer that could enlarge the vid, and be able to slo mo/reverse from touch screen. A blue tooth/wi/fi connection. Every sport vid nut would buy it. A sweet spot trainer we could insert/attach to the string bed that would make a large noise when struck would be nice. An aritficial noise producer, a loud bang would be great. Spin a ling inserts would be great that would create 4000rpm for us normal folks.Comment
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I'll give this one shot...
I mentioned in an earlier post, what a severe case of "staggered start" this is. That is the disparity in hand height (between toss and hitting hand) at the release point. I believe this is the root problem. This is a very difficult position to recover from as it tends to delay the abduction and also sync the leg drive.
Bobby talks about abduction, and in laymans terms, (and in this case) it simply means the right arm needs to be further along in its progression at the release point. So it's not just a case of lifting the elbow up and away from the midline...but WHEN this occurs. In this case, in needs to be sooner, in relationship to his toss.
One way to get the shoulder to abduct earlier is to plant the mental image of a more down together/ up together backswing. He probably won't be able to do this immediately (and u may not even want this backswing shape) but it will probably get him out of the habit of stalling out his right hand so much..Last edited by 10splayer; 08-02-2014, 12:45 PM.Comment
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Absolutely agree. great starting point.Comment
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I get this but am keen to ask you a question. The problem I have with at a problem like this is "where to start". Is tackling the low elbow first a good first move, or is it better to address the staggered start first? Or will focusing on the down together/up together backswing attempt to address both?Originally posted by 10splayer View PostStottyComment
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It's a block.Comment
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The short answer is, sure i think it will help. After all, this is not a case of flipping the forearm (waiter position), which will immediately angle the humerus down and drop the elbow. What i'm seeing is just a case of stalling out the right arm...it can happen when the delivery is staggered..Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
Want you to look at Sampras's serve, because it was quite staggered. Indeed, Pete had one of the fullest, deepest, lowest, windups in the game, and his left arm was well ahead of his right arm. And yet, if you isolate his right hand...it ALWAYS kept moving, kept progressing. And so at the point of maximum knee flexion (the reference point by which we judge the trophy position) his arm was perfectly position (abducted/90 degrees to the torso)
Now, look at the young man's position at knee flexion...because his arm has stalled, the upper arm is angled down. His right arm has to keep moving!!! As i mentioned, this is an incredibly difficult position to overcome. Try and have your left arm extended and have your right hand down by your thigh at knee flex..brutal.
It's also almost impossible to time the leg drive when the arm has to cover this much distance in such a short amount of time. In fact, notice how long he is in in knee flexion? Think there's a connection? I do.Last edited by 10splayer; 08-04-2014, 01:57 PM.Comment
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Thanks for this, 10splayer. This has helped my understanding a lot.Originally posted by 10splayer View PostStottyComment
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Great statement. At maximum knee flexion we see trophy position with Sampras. If we look at Roddick we see a totally different position. Can you elaborate on how you view that.Comment
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A Look Back at a Strong Habit
The response here has been great. On the subject of this young man's serve and his propensity for dropping his elbow a little low or perhaps it's just that he leaves it there, I thought you might appreciate seeing the motion 2 years ago; then you can see how deeply ingrained the habit is. I believe I took these clips the first day I got to work with this youngster. He wanted to emulate Federer's motion. I don't advocate that because of exactly the problem he is having, but who am I to say Roger is not a good model to emulate. (Remember I prefer Stich or Krajicek). The problem lies with the low initial starting point; the momentum of the downward initial swing takes the racket to just about where he ends up; if he started a little higher initially, I believe the momentum of the drop would swing the racket just enough higher that he would be at least a lot less likely to have this problem. My correction would be to start his hands just a little bit higher, but then there goes the whole emulate Federer thing. The other thing I don't like about this motion is the separation of the toss and the weight transfer. When you look at my video from 2 years ago, you can see there is some relationship between the upward motion of the toss and the weight transfer, that is before the ball leaves his left hand; but in the current video, he gets the weight a little further back and doesn't really start to move it forward until after the ball has left his hand. True, the current shots are from the ad side and the 2-year old ones are from the deuce side, but I don't think that changes it. It may be easier to get more platform stance leg drive with this kind of action, but I think the consistency of the serve is more important and it is sacrificed when the toss and the rock or weight transfer are so completely separated. It's also the tension in the right arm that I dislike. I feel if he let it swing a little more with gravity, he would be more relaxed and have more racket head speed. Of course, part of that would be getting into a more advantageous "drop" position with that elbow a little more away from his body.
Here are the links to the clips including the current ones; in the current clip the serve is about 6:00 in:
the current video:
from 2 years ago:
SH Serve DS 6_29_12:
SH Serve Rear 6_29_12:
Roger's serve
Please notice Roger doesn't get quite so far back and there is some sense of connection between toss and weight transfer. I think this is significant.
donLast edited by tennis_chiro; 08-04-2014, 06:14 PM.Comment
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2012 rear is much improved from present. Side still a struggle.Comment
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