Federer's Serve Locations: 2nd Serve Placements

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss my latest article, "Federer's Serve Locations: 2nd Serve Placements"

[charlieinneedham]

? direction of cartwheel key to serve placement

When I serve, I try to slightly change the final direction in which I cartwheel forward to change whether I hit to wide or down the T.
For example, in the deuce court, I rotate slightly further to my left coming out of the cartwheel motion to hit a wide serve.
I do this because the slightly different direction I cartwheel into means I can concentrate on just hitting the ball with my usual serve motion, and can take dead aim at striking the tossed ball.
The tiny difference in the direction my upper body is traveling, and knowing where I want to place the ball, seems to "magically" let me automatically make the adjustments in the arm and racquet motion to place the serve either wide or to the T.
Looking at the videos of Fed, it seems like he is doing the same thing.
Could it be that this change in direction in which one cartwheels is the real key to serve placement, rather than the more complicated "visualize the hand and arm rotation, the angle of the racket face at contact, and the angle of the arm going across the baseline"?

[johnyandell]

Interesting.

It all comes down to the racket path of course and no matter the placement you want the full rotation. Post a couple of Federer clips that show the difference--or any server.

How the player keys it is what matters--the trick is doing so without undermining the fundamentals.

[charlieinneedham]

In the front view of the deuce court video, Fed's shoulders are cut off.

So I will concentrate on my comments on the ad court.

In the T serve on the ad court, one sees more of Roger's left (leading) shoulder as he cartwheels more to the left than on his wide serve.
[We don't see much of his L shoulder on the wide serve, as he is cartwheeling more to the right.]

Similarly in the front view of the ad court serves, one sees more of his chest on the T serve, than can be seen in the wide serve. This is because he has changed the cartwheel direction more to the right for the wide serve.

So why the preoccupation with the direction of the cartwheel?

I think there are important implications for teaching and power production.

I think it is easier to just keep the same swing and just vary the direction we let our shoulders roll over into the court.
I think the changes in hand/arm rotation, and racquet/arm angles are a consequence of coming through space in a slightly different direction when cartwheeling.
I think it is easier to just concentrate on cartwheeling in a slightly different direction to direct one's serve, rather than trying to adjust hand/arm rotation and racquet/arm angles.

I also think that cartwheeling in the direction to which you are serving is using a big body movement in the most optimal manner to power one's serve.
The upper body is moving in the right direction.

I also believe that to the returner, the change in direction of cartwheeling is so subtle that it does not tip off the direction of the serve.
Plus, the returner is keyed on watching the ball, so the biggest differences visible to him are missed as they occur just as and after the ball has been struck.

John, I will be remiss if I don't tell you how much I love your site, and this article is only one of hundreds where your great video and even better analysis, get us thinking and help us. Thank you!

[johnyandell]

charlie,

you are welcome. what I was wondering is if you could find examples in the hs archive . I'd like to take a closer look.

[stroke]

When I serve, I try to slightly change the final direction in which I cartwheel forward to change whether I hit to wide or down the T.
For example, in the deuce court, I rotate slightly further to my left coming out of the cartwheel motion to hit a wide serve.
I do this because the slightly different direction I cartwheel into means I can concentrate on just hitting the ball with my usual serve motion, and can take dead aim at striking the tossed ball.
The tiny difference in the direction my upper body is traveling, and knowing where I want to place the ball, seems to "magically" let me automatically make the adjustments in the arm and racquet motion to place the serve either wide or to the T.
Looking at the videos of Fed, it seems like he is doing the same thing.
Could it be that this change in direction in which one cartwheels is the real key to serve placement, rather than the more complicated "visualize the hand and arm rotation, the angle of the racket face at contact, and the angle of the arm going across the baseline"?

I think you are spot on with this cartwheel direction, or I might call throw direction. Chris Lewit detailed this very well in his articles on the Kick Serve I believe.

[jimlosaltos]

Excellent, Pic Stan Wawrinka

Let's discuss my latest article, "Federer's Serve Locations: 2nd Serve Placements"

Excellent article. I'd read and heard so much about this I verged on what management guru Tom Peters called "paralysis by analysis" (but then you've seen my serve <g>).

I thought you might find my photo of Stan Wawrinka from IW interesting. This is from semifinal doubles with Fed (they lost). Sadly, I can't take a photo and see the flight of the ball, but look at the scissor kick parallel to the baseline. It looks as if all his core/ leg energy goes sideways. {Link to Flickr, which I think will load here, reliably}

[IMG]Wawrinka Serve kick followBNPIW14_ 82 by james.fawcette, on Flickr[/IMG]

[tennis_chiro]

That's an awesome picture, Jim.

don

[jimlosaltos]

thx

That's an awesome picture, Jim.

don

Thank you !

[hernandezarturo]

Another image

Hi John,

Great article! It reminded me of a tip I got from a pro who told me to try and hit the right side of the ball and imagine slapping it out toward the ad court. When I did this I could hit that wide ad court serve I never could hit before. I could also hit the T very nicely with the same motion on the deuce side.

I am wondering if a simple way to visualize this would be to imagine that every serve is hit right up the middle of the service box. Hitting to the right of the middle requires one to rotate the wrist earlier. Hitting to the left of the middle requires one to hold the wrist rotation just a little bit more. This has the effect of making one simply adjust one way or the other. In practice, this would involve people moving to the left and right of the center of the service box by varying the speed of the racket rotation caused by pronation.

The image I have in mind is whether my racket face hits the right side of the ball, the middle of the ball or the left side of the ball. I know this is not entirely accurate in real life. I am only creating a base image (square up the middle of the box) and then altering my perceived contact point to create a ball that goes left or right of center.

One advantage of having a base serve and then just imagining different contact points is that it reduces the need to change the windup or delivery and then cue the location of the serve.

Does this seem like a reasonable way to conceptualize it for the less sophisticated visual imagery that a player can employ on the court?

Arturo

[johnyandell]

Arturo,

Yes!