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**gzhpcu** · 05-10-2014, 04:34 AM

I don't think it is a matter of having a different opinion, it is a matter of not being confrontational about it. Never saw polite disagreement get anyone in trouble on this forum don...

**lobndropshot** · 05-10-2014, 05:08 AM

I was waiting for this to happen. Just call me vanilla ice.

John can I change my username to vanilla ice?

Yo, VIP
Let's kick it

Ice, Ice, baby
Ice, Ice, baby

All right stop, collaborate, and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like a harpoon, daily and nightly

Will it ever stop? Yo, I don't know
Turn off the lights and I'll glow
To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal
Light-up a stage and wax a chump like a candle

Dance, go rush the speaker that booms
I'm killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom
Deadly when I play a dope melody
Anything less than the best is a felony

Love it or leave it, you better gang way
You better hit bull's eye, the kid don't play
If there was a problem, yo, I'll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it

Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla

Now that the party is jumping
With the bass kicked in and the Vega's are pumpin'
Quick to the point, to the point, no faking
Cooking MC's like a pound of bacon

Burning 'em, if you ain't quick and nimble
I go crazy when I hear a cymbal
And a high hat with a souped up tempo
I'm on a roll, it's time to go solo

Rollin' in my 5.0
With my rag-top down so my hair can blow
The girlies on standby waving just to say hi
Did you stop? No, I just drove by

Kept on pursuing to the next stop
I busted a left and I'm heading to the next block
The block was dead, yo, so I continued
To A1A Detroit Avenue

Girls were hot wearing less than bikinis
Rockman lovers driving Lamborghinis
Jealous 'cause I'm out getting mine
Shay with a gauge and Vanilla with a nine

Ready for the chumps on the wall
The chumps are acting ill because they're full of eight ball
Gunshots rang out like a bell
I grabbed my nine all I heard was shells

Falling on the concrete real fast
Jumped in my car slammed on the gas
Bumper to bumper the avenue's packed
I'm trying to get away before the jackers jack

Police on the scene, you know what I mean?
They passed me up, confronted all the dope fiends
If there was a problem, yo, I'll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it

Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla

Take heed 'cause I'm a lyrical poet
Miami's on the scene just in case you didn't know it
My town that created all the bass sound
Enough to shake and kick holes in the ground

'Cause my style's like a chemical spill
Feasible rhymes you can vision and feel
Conducted and formed, this is a hell of a concept
We make it hype and you want to step

With this, Shay plays on the fade
Slice like a ninja, cut like a razor blade
So fast other DJ's say, "Damn!"
If my rhyme was a drug I'd sell it by the gram

Keep my composure when it's time to get loose
Magnetized by the mic while I kick my juice
If there was a problem, yo, I'll solve it
Check out the hook while D. Shay revolves it

Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice, Ice, baby
Vanilla Ice

Yo, man, let's get out of here
Word to your mother

Ice, Ice, baby, too cold
Ice, Ice, baby, too cold, too cold
Ice, Ice, baby, too cold, too cold
Ice, Ice, baby, too cold, too cold

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

**GeoffWilliams** · 05-10-2014, 06:24 AM

I haven't seen any drivel since. I haven't seen any non intelligent posts. It's John's site. He can ban anyone he wants to.

**klacr** · 05-10-2014, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by don_budge View Post

Yeah...just a bunch of buds. I assume that "buds" means buddies. Chummy, warm and fuzzy. Cozy even. Congratulations! You did it...you eliminated the competition.

Here's a unheard voice for you. It's me...don_budge. I have some news for you and chuckkoton and anyone else that thinks that the tennisplayer.net forum has in some way "evolved" in the past month or so since it made a mockery of itself in terms of being a haven for free speech or meaningful discussion with regards to all things tennis. Phooey...it's bland. It's vanilla. There are no contradicting opinions. You have succeeded. You got what you wanted...but are you happy with it?

It's pathetic really. Lost Souls searching for a conversation to be had but unable to articulate what is really bothering them...somehow that is the impression that I am getting. The threads are superficial...lacking any real passion. Self satisfied I suppose that the dissenting voice has been silenced. Nobody seems to care.

You silenced a voice. Sentenced it to silence...where it won't be heard from again. It makes you feel better to know you won't have to deal with that uncomfortable sensation again. Someone who doesn't AGREE with you for God's sake. Tennis as a metaphor for life once again. If only someone would speak out about the truth that is going on all around you...you might be dismayed and a bit uncomfortable as well. But the fact is you are so well insulated it doesn't matter to you anymore. It's better to be warm and fuzzy.

So congratulations once again. All of the "buds" talking tennis. What stimulating conversations you all are creating...without any diversity of opinions you all seem so cozy with each other. But guess what? For once I am going to come out and make a brazen statement...you are wrong. As wrong as wrong can be. And you know me...the last to agree or disagree. I feel sorry for you...it is really pathetic. He was harmless and always was. He was different and somewhat difficult to understand therefore it was necessary to silence him.

But at least he was interesting...which is more than I can say for the weak drivel that has come out of the forum for the past month. He gave me more food for thought in the "Building a World Class One Hander" than most of you have contributed during your entire visit here in the neighborhood forum. You probably have a difficult time understanding...it wasn't solely Chris's article that made it such a great research experience...it was the conversation that came out of it. You don't have to agree with everything...you fools. Just read and think. It doesn't have to become a matter of right or wrong...a matter of black or white. But oh no...it morph's into pissing contest. It's too much to ask for intelligent participation. Real pathos...in the scope of human existence.

I suppose now I am fair game...for banishment. So be it.

don_budge,

Thanks for your honesty and opinion. Personally, I thought the "voice" (is that what we will refer to him as, not worldsbesttenniscoach?) was amusing and thought provoking. I liked his views on teaching and strategy.

I believe what put off many were his claims about the perfect shots and how he has taught so many yet when asked to specify he skirted around the issue. When claiming that many of the top pro forehands are weak and yet failed to describe or go into detail about his teaching methods or give us examples. As coaches and players, we all have different opinions on what is right, wrong and acceptable. Unfortunately for the voice, he was not able to effectively communicate his teachings. Part of being a great coach and teacher is effective communication.

He may have been misunderstood but when you look at his posts and the responses, I know there were many forum regulars who wanted to learn more from him and inquired, only to be led down another path or have the subject changed on them. I really would have loved to seen an article by him so he can truly showcase his ideas. It would have been a tremendous benefit to all of us.

Another issue that may have lead to his exile was his criticism of the website itself. Mr. Yandell and his teams filming and playing quality was brought into question for little or no reason.

If a "voice" is going to be part of a forum and speak up and out against the person administering the site or begins dialogue with other members in a non constructive or negative way then he shall be prepared for any consequences that he shall face.

I'm sorry to see him go but I get it and am accepting of it. I love the views and contributions of all on the forum. We certainly need different opinions and unique perspectives.

As for you don_budge, your thoughts and contributions are also greatly appreciated and worth a large amount of respect for sharing and detailing your knowledge base. We are all better teachers and players for it. Thank you.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

**10splayer** · 05-10-2014, 08:40 AM

Not sure which I found more incredible, his ridiculous claims (such as current players mishit all the time/suck) or his inability to substantiate any of them. There's a place for that...Facebook.

**stroke** · 05-10-2014, 12:01 PM

I was not fond at all of wbc's criticism of Brian Gordon''s ATP forehand as being a "backwards" type stroke, and yet he was critical of it while admitting he had not read the articles. Also, even though he was asked several times, he supplied no examples of what he was so promoting.

**johnyandell** · 05-10-2014, 01:07 PM

That guy was promoting one thing: disrespect. When you come into the house you are expected to abide by the rules. In this case to forward collaborative discussion. That was not his intention and he was asked to leave. End of story.

**stotty** · 05-10-2014, 01:51 PM

WBTC and my take on things...

Originally posted by don_budge View Post

But at least he was interesting...which is more than I can say for the weak drivel that has come out of the forum for the past month. He gave me more food for thought in the "Building a World Class One Hander" than most of you have contributed during your entire visit here in the neighborhood forum. You probably have a difficult time understanding...it wasn't solely Chris's article that made it such a great research experience...it was the conversation that came out of it. You don't have to agree with everything...you fools. Just read and think. It doesn't have to become a matter of right or wrong...a matter of black or white.

One person's drivel is another's delight. It depends on your agenda. But I understand where don_budge is coming from. It's far more interesting to think and talk about the ineffable and wider aspects of tennis than to talk about racket face angles and what not. But then that depends who you are...where your interests lie...I guess.

I can understand where WBTC's critics are coming from with his criticism of the ATP forehand and misunderstanding of it. But WBTC was an interesting character with much to say, and a different take on things. I found him a right and wrong character, but he was certainly no fool.

I get don_budge's gripe with agreeing and disagreeing. The forum at its best should be about conversations that meander, that meander down avenues of thought...thought-provoking avenues.

We need to be careful with offbeat characters not to gang up on them. It's an easy and natural thing to do. Members certainly ganged up against WBTC. Ganging up and expulsion leads to...who next?...and then...who next?...and eventually to a one party state. Sound far fetched? You can experienced the phenomenon in microcosm in many workplaces and group scenarios. Just look around. I once worked in an office where eight people whittled themselves to one. Each working to get rid of another until only one was left. The winner got his comeuppance because he was left mistrustful and paranoid. You can't win in that type of game.

But I digress, Tennisplayer is definitely not guilty of a one party state culture...quite the reverse.

John's decision to exile WBTC did surprise me. He has put up with worse and for far longer before exiling posters. John has every right to get rid of a member if he thinks that member is deliberately trolling. Why put up with insults in your own home?

That said, WBTC was harmless to Tennisplayer. Tennisplayer is a powerful entity because it is an evidence-based website and a tough place to do battle for those with alternative theories. You're going to need some significant evidence-based material of your own to do that. WBTC was defeated very easily and all of us knew that. I think a few members enjoyed watching him having to wriggle.

My advice is to be tolerant of others whatever the provocation. Try to see where others are coming from. More importantly try to understand the "why's" of where they are coming from. It's a life changing experience to commit yourself to understanding rather than reacting and defending. Once you master it, you'll never look back.

**johnyandell** · 05-10-2014, 03:42 PM

lob and drop shot,

yes you can be vanilla ice, but i don't think you are serious.

stotty,

you are a more tolerant man than I, but it was the right decision for me. Let's say I learned something from previous experience. disagreement and meandering great, disrespect no.

**klacr** · 05-10-2014, 06:35 PM

John's house. John's rules.

WBTC said some things that got under people's skin. His negative comments were a downer. His ideas may have been abstract but they didn't fluster me (never let them see you sweat). I try to respect, understand and even help or at least listen to everyone's opinions, even if they are not in line with mine.

His numerous Private messages on this site to me as well as replies to my twitter postings were questionable in nature and rarely provided any worthwhile response or discussion to the general audience as many were non sequitur in nature. It is what it is.

John's house. John's rules. I'm happy with them. Onwards and upwards...for the sake of tennis, for the sake of learning, for the sake of each other.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

**GeoffWilliams** · 05-10-2014, 08:02 PM

I've disagreed with JY many times on the site, ie, the williams sisters, the IW crowd booing them, Larry Elison, the snap back volley, not running around bh overheads. No one likes to be disagreed with, esp. when it's your site. But I've never attacked him or his views, or anyone else's here either. I don't goad. I don't attack without opinion/evidence/pictures/feelings. Those who do, should not be surprised by the reactions of others. Ie, don't call the posters here: "drivel mongers". That is not true nor right.

driv·el
ˈdrivəl/Submit
noun
1.
silly nonsense.
"don't talk such drivel!"
synonyms: nonsense, twaddle, claptrap, balderdash, gibberish, rubbish, mumbo jumbo, garbage; More
verb
verb: drivel; 3rd person present: drivels; past tense: drivelled; past participle: drivelled; gerund or present participle: drivelling; past tense: driveled; past participle: driveled; gerund or present participle: driveling
1.
talk nonsense.
"he was driveling on about the glory days"
synonyms: talk nonsense, talk rubbish, babble, ramble, gibber, blather, prattle, gabble, waffle More
2.
archaic
let saliva or mucus flow from the mouth or nose; dribble.

Dribbling saliva off your chin as you type is not a very good image to be supplying about your fellows. The real thing we are creating is a site that encourages new data, new methods, evidence to back up a method, analysis you can't get elsewhere, friendly enjoyable commerce, rhythm. The tennis ronins. Masterless samurai students of the game.

**johnyandell** · 05-10-2014, 08:14 PM

Geoff,
Agreed and I have never felt you were anything but a gentleman in forwarding all your opinions. (No matter how many times you were wrong....kidding...kidding.)

Kyle,
Wow, pm's and tweets...

All,
If any one else wants to chime in here do it and then get back to tennis.

**lobndropshot** · 05-10-2014, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by johnyandell View Post

lob and drop shot,

yes you can be vanilla ice, but i don't think you are serious.

Yo DJ JY in the house! Word.

**gzhpcu** · 05-10-2014, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by johnyandell View Post

That guy was promoting one thing: disrespect. When you come into the house you are expected to abide by the rules. In this case to forward collaborative discussion. That was not his intention and he was asked to leave. End of story.

That sums it up neatly. As I mentioned elsewhere, you can disagree, but be polite and try to back up your arguments.

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The "bunch of buds"...talking tennis.

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