Racket face angle at contact

[gzhpcu]

No, I would say the "path" determines the spin. For instance, a flat shot is hit with a perpendicular face (more or less) and a "shallow path". A topspin shot is hit with also a perpendicular face (within this ten degree margin) and a "steeper" path.

Further, I would guess that the racquet face angle has more to do with the desired trajectory of a shot given the path...Hence the reason that the face can be a bit closed on higher balls. (topspin)

The path does determine the spin, of course, but it seems to me that according to the path, the angle of the face is determined (I can not imagine a forehand topspin loop where the face is angled backwards...). Maybe, just in the player's head though... I know that when I hit a defensive forehand slice, I have the feeling the head angle is laid back, and closed when I have a forehand topspin loop. I feel the two are interrelated...

[jasonfrausto]

Here's a low Fed ball. What are your guesses on the angle?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceSide1_250fps.mp4

Here's a higher one that seems more extreme:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceSide1_250fps.mp4

One of the problems when this gets discussed, especially using only still images as "evidence" is that if the ball hits below center, the face will close more and often radically after contact.

On the TW message board you see these pics posted all the time "proving" that the face closes 45 degrees, etc...

Those examples look pretty closed to me (upwards of 10 degrees)....but I guess the issue in measuring with software programs would be the angle of the body/camera angle etc, even though these shots are pretty clear from the side view. Great footage though, especially pertaining to a discussion like this.

-Jason Frausto

[klacr]

Interesting discussion thread for sure. There are so many variables and that includes contact on the stringbed.

Assuming an impact near the bottom of center may close the racquet face more and contact abover center may open it.

John mentioned this in an earlier post but he also wrote a brilliant article about impact on the stringbed on this site some time ago that deserves to be looked at in further detail and I'm surprised it has flown under the radar for so long...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...contact_point/

Notice in all the video clips the angle of the racquet face of Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, it is not extremely closed due to contact still along the center line of the racquet face. What immediately happens after impact we can only assume, but I don't think an extreme tilt of the racquet face would necessarily occur, at least not consciously. Tilting and angle of the racquet face may be symptoms rather than a cause of high powered, high rpm forehands. Slight angles on approach to the ball may be fine but intentional or forced extreme angles can get a bit dicey and lead to further problems

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[lobndropshot]

Can the new racket designed by Babolat measure the angle at contact?

I would think the technology to solve this question is right around the corner. Just imagine shot spot on the court and contact point on the racket.

[10splayer]

The path does determine the spin, of course, but it seems to me that according to the path, the angle of the face is determined (I can not imagine a forehand topspin loop where the face is angled backwards...). Maybe, just in the player's head though... I know that when I hit a defensive forehand slice, I have the feeling the head angle is laid back, and closed when I have a forehand topspin loop. I feel the two are interrelated...

If you believe in the PAS principles, which stands for Path, Angle of the Racquet, and Speed, they are all interelated.

Lets take the example of the slice. If the face is open 10 degrees (Angle), if not acted upon the ball would deflect as per that upward 10 degree angle. If the path is downward it would LOWER the trajectory, and if the SPEED increased in this same downward path, the trajectory would lower even greater.

So even though each of these factors can mitigate each other to a certain degree, the big player in spin is path, and speed along that path, and the racquet face angle is largely responsible for trajectory.

Having said that, Id love to hear a science nerds thoughts on the subject.