Serve and Volley: Tactical Components

[klacr]

A brave attempt to write about a dead art form. The metaphysical nature of it is impossible enough...let alone the fact that it no longer exists in the professional game of tennis.

tennis_chiro often writes about this form of tennis and what it would take in terms of time and commitment to implement it at the professional level. Reading your articles supports his thesis...the subject is deep. Such an intricate blend of technique and tactics.

To write about something so complex as "serve and volley tactics and technique" is indeed a brave endeavor. It brings back memories. There are so many tiny facets that go into making such play a success. It used to be such a huge part of the big picture of tennis. It used to be a prerequisite for any decent tennis player to be able to play solid serve and volley tennis on fast hard courts or grass courts. Many used it as tactics on the clay at Roland Garros...and won with it.

Many talk of the modern tennis game being a product of evolution. Well...I think you know how I feel about that miscalculation. I just can't get over how complicated a subject this is and I really admire you for putting yourself out on the line to tackle it. It's unbelievable. It's thought provoking. I don't know where to start. I guess I'll just keep reading. Thanks for your efforts...most interesting. Hovercraft...I like it.

worldsbesttenniscoach sort of misunderstood the supporting video material. He is flawed like so many of us...plus he isn't bashful...like the rest of us. If he accidentally puts his foot in his mouth...it's forgivable. What's the harm? His remarks certainly didn't influence my feelings one iota. Aren't we confident enough to stand tall and ignore something if it misses the mark?

I do agree though that the best way to approach posting on this wonderful forum is to support your remarks. Just state the case as best you can...it makes for interesting reading. And debate.

don_budge,

I appreciate the post. Yes, serve and volley is an interesting dynamic nowadays. Perhaps gone, but is it gone forever? I don't believe so.There will be a few articles in the future that I'm really proud of that may help spur the serve and volley revolution. Stay tuned for that. Serve and volley in the pro game may be limited, but what about the club and recreational level? I think there is something in these articles that every level of player and coach can take with them and use. Best is yet to come. Tennis has a funny way of surprising and satisfying us. I'm not closing the book on serve and volley just yet, and I know I'm not alone in this thought.

Thanks for reading and following the series.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Morning students...

Good morning students of the game. It's a bright and sunny morning over this side of the pond. I am writing from my clubhouse overlooking dozens of children taking part in the holiday camps I oversee. Lots of laughing and fun games...I can hear it all coming through my window...wonderful. None of the kids can play for toffee, but they don't care. When it comes to having fun they beat the performance players hands down...no contest.

tennis_chiro often writes about this form of tennis and what it would take in terms of time and commitment to implement it at the professional level. Reading your articles supports his thesis...the subject is deep. Such an intricate blend of technique and tactics.

On many occasions tennis_chiro has reminded us of the intricacies of serve and volley and volleying in general. It's great to have him around because as McEnroe said: "People forget". The nuances and finer details are going extinct. If it goes on much longer, the art won't be coachable because the knowledge will be gone.

I just can't get over how complicated a subject this is and I really admire you for putting yourself out on the line to tackle it.

Putting yourself on the line. Great observation. Go for it. Who cares if we get it wrong...probably only ourselves when it comes down to it. The best thing about a forum is the freedom it gives you to talk to the wind. Well done, Klacr. Don't play safe...go for it.

Here is a Ken Rosewall video, with volleying at the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aUnSCp64S0

Talk about an elegant player...

Elegant is not the word...Rosewall is ineffable. How great to see him in his prime, moving and hitting a tennis ball like that.

[gzhpcu]

I think we have covered this issue elsewhere: it is easier, and brings faster success to teach youngsters the baseline game. Serve and volley, is more difficult, needs more athleticism. Kids are to small to cover the net. Later, nobody wants to invest the time to practice it, because initially you will lose matches, if you are the only one doing it.

Look at the success Pat Rafter had doing it. But he was a dying breed and no successor showed up. Nowadays, it is just about power bashing off both wings. Shame there isn't more variety nowadays, but, then again, who is willing to invest the time to get there and lose out at early successes?

[klacr]

I think we have covered this issue elsewhere: it is easier, and brings faster success to teach youngsters the baseline game. Serve and volley, is more difficult, needs more athleticism. Kids are to small to cover the net. Later, nobody wants to invest the time to practice it, because initially you will lose matches, if you are the only one doing it.

Look at the success Pat Rafter had doing it. But he was a dying breed and no successor showed up. Nowadays, it is just about power bashing off both wings. Shame there isn't more variety nowadays, but, then again, who is willing to invest the time to get there and lose out at early successes?

Phil, valid points.But my issue is how is a player going to distance himself from the herd? Everyone is playing the same game and therefore, all competitive and compatible. If someone wants to lead they may have to find a different way (or older way) of doing things. Something radical. You can't soar with the eagles if you're surrounded by Turkeys. A new game should form. Waiting for someone to break free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Zo4AVL7AE

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

Good morning students of the game. It's a bright and sunny morning over this side of the pond. I am writing from my clubhouse overlooking dozens of children taking part in the holiday camps I oversee. Lots of laughing and fun games...I can hear it all coming through my window...wonderful. None of the kids can play for toffee, but they don't care. When it comes to having fun they beat the performance players hands down...no contest.




On many occasions tennis_chiro has reminded us of the intricacies of serve and volley and volleying in general. It's great to have him around because as McEnroe said: "People forget". The nuances and finer details are going extinct. If it goes on much longer, the art won't be coachable because the knowledge will be gone.



Putting yourself on the line. Great observation. Go for it. Who cares if we get it wrong...probably only ourselves when it comes down to it. The best thing about a forum is the freedom it gives you to talk to the wind. Well done, Klacr. Don't play safe...go for it.




Elegant is not the word...Rosewall is ineffable. How great to see him in his prime, moving and hitting a tennis ball like that.

Great post Stotty. Thanks for kind words and thanks for reading. I'm definitely going for it. No worries about that. Still a few more articles left in the series and excited to share them.

Glad to see your camps are going well. Nothing better than courts full of children having fun, hopefully falling in love with the sport. A sport they can play for a lifetime.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Kyle, the probem is we live in an era of fast gratification. No patience. If only the Aussies would decide to go back to serve and volley with their emerging players... In the days of Gonzales and company, there wasn't that much money going around, not so much hype about ATP rankings...

[GeoffWilliams]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

[lobndropshot]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

How do you make that work?

[gzhpcu]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

This is the only guy I ever saw doing it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IdvdxqSg8E

He would hit his backhand with the same grip and same face of the racket...

[klacr]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

Geoff,

That day may not be far away. Perhaps the uni grip is extreme, but the first volley being replaced with the swinging volley, that's where we could be headed. Good thinking Geoff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[worldsbesttenniscoach]

Sorry if I offended Coach Yandell. My point is that this site is supposedly a site for best practice, yet I see flaws in the volleyers' techniques. I am sorry if this offends Coach Yandell to the point he "bans" me. I am not sure what Coach Yandell means by "trolling."

I know I was critical of Coach Yandell's article on the pro backhands, in this issue. I was just making the scientific point that true researchers & scientists share data with others, if asked. I just asked about the source of Coach Yandell's observations & opinions. I am sorry that I did not treat Coach Yandell as though he is automatically right. I am sorry I believe in the important scientific principle of skepticism.

It looks as though www.tennisplayer.net thinks of itself as unassailable, & will ban any member who questions the "authorities" here. Wow. Very sad. Sadly funny, in a way.

[worldsbesttenniscoach]

That German player Kohlschreiber hits his forehand & backhand returns of serve on the same side of the racket. Also, the American Jack Sock often hits forehand & backhand using same side of strings. I think there are probably other players like this, as well.

Also, I want to point out that I make many relevant, insightful comments in the Forum, here at www.tennisplayer.net, but because Coach Yandell does not like my comments, he thinks about banning me. I guess this Forum is not ready to accept different thinking, even when the different thinking might be correct.

Coach Yandell did not even have the courtesy to warn me in a private message, first. But whether the warning was in public or private, his warning is inappropriate.

[lobndropshot]

Sorry if I offended Coach Yandell. My point is that this site is supposedly a site for best practice, yet I see flaws in the volleyers' techniques. I am sorry if this offends Coach Yandell to the point he "bans" me. I am not sure what Coach Yandell means by "trolling."

I know I was critical of Coach Yandell's article on the pro backhands, in this issue. I was just making the scientific point that true researchers & scientists share data with others, if asked. I just asked about the source of Coach Yandell's observations & opinions. I am sorry that I did not treat Coach Yandell as though he is automatically right. I am sorry I believe in the important scientific principle of skepticism.

It looks as though www.tennisplayer.net thinks of itself as unassailable, & will ban any member who questions the "authorities" here. Wow. Very sad. Sadly funny, in a way.

Then write a post or article with that information in it. Please

[johnyandell]

WBC,

You have successfully engineered your own exit. Trolling is trolling. You know it and so does everyone else. I refunded you pro rata on your subscription. The integrity of this discussion is important and you are violating it. Please don't resubscribe.

John Yandell

[don_budge]

A bit worrisome...to silence the discenting voices! Right or wrong...

WBC,

You have successfully engineered your own exit. Trolling is trolling. You know it and so does everyone else. I refunded you pro rata on your subscription. The integrity of this discussion is important and you are violating it. Please don't resubscribe.

John Yandell

I respectfully submit the following. What is integrity in tennis discussions...in a game with the most exact dimensions but with infinite area.

It looks as though www.tennisplayer.net thinks of itself as unassailable, & will ban any member who questions the "authorities" here. Wow. Very sad. Sadly funny, in a way.

I realize that Bill gets some coaches panties all in a bunch...but he has never once written anything that has offended me. For that matter he has never written anything that I "disagree" with. But that is because I feel that he is entitled...to his own opinion. Not all of us are as diplomatic as Stotty.

It never ceased to amaze me how thin-skinned tennis coaches and golf coaches can be. Each thinks he has some monopoly on the truth...a sign of insecurity inherent to the trade I suppose. But come on...your body of work stands on its own. How could you possibly let a single lone voice get your goat to the point where you have to silence it?

John...you are the owner here. You make the decisions. There is no question about that. But what kind of message does this send? He may have been wrong to question you in the sense that he was not correct in the way that he interpreted what you wrote...he may have miscalculated himself. He may have been incorrect on any number of issues but isn't that a good thing? Doesn't he give us further evidence to measure our thoughts and opinions upon? He doesn't accept everything here on tennisplayer.net as the gospel. That's a good thing. Neither do I by the way...although the reverse is more applicable...I do find tons of good relevant discussion and articles and the rest.

It only makes it more amusing and more interesting. 10splayer has said more offensive things to me than worldsbesttenniscoach has written here. He called me a whining bitch the other day. I was waiting for a reaction from the "authorities" but there was none and that was just fine with me. I can take care of myself. But I was just curious...how far can it go? What do I care? I find it amusing...even interesting. In fact it may even give me reason to pause...to think. Is it possible that everyone doesn't agree with everything that I write? Of course they don't and that isn't even my ambition.

I agree...and I hate using that word here on the forum but this is a different matter...that Bill does not back up his criticism as well as he might but I recognize this to be a personal trait of his. Perhaps a flaw in his human makeup. I do find his tennis acumen to be terribly interesting and just like everyone else that contributes to this forum I read everything that he writes.

In short...I feel that it is a mistake to ban any writer from this forum. That is...short of being a nabrug or whatever it's name was. But even he had some merit...as terribly disturbed as he seemed to be at times. He was only another mental case to weigh my insanity against. Whenever someone posts on this forum any reader has a couple of options...you can respond, you can avoid reading a certain poster, you can read then ignore what is written or you can take it personally and be offended.

The worrisome part about this is that it reflects our society in general these days. The thought police have taken over little by little. Any deviation in expression raises an eyebrow. It is a cause for concern for the "authorities". It is easy to silence the offending voice...it is another thing to silently contemplate and reserve judgement for the higher power...wherever he may be at the present moment. Certainly the planet Earth has become too much of a disappointment to merit any of his attention as of late. We have been left to our own devices. What are WE going to do? Kill the offenders?