Speed up or Progressive approach to Developing Competitive Tennis Player

[damir]

Just trying to give posts 10 and 11 another chance!

I was hoping for a few comments.

don

Very interesting comments, but in my opinion too ideal for real world life.In life is everything business.The same is in tennis.The main players are not the ones who compete (tennis professionals), but the ones who control it (producers of rackets,clothes,shoes,ATP,WTA,ITF,Grand Slams sites).Tennis professionals are just there to attract people (produce demand for product).
Normally, quality of tennis professionals depends how much they will share in this finnacial cake (lower ranked professionals just pay in order to compete in professional tennis,middle class profesionals earn decent living by playing professional tennis, and just very few at the top are so precious to this whole establishment so that are allowed to earn extra profits (guaranties,money from sponsors,money from exibitions).

Harshly speaking is just a circus, like real circus where spectators pay and are allowed to see just part of what is really going on.Many are not able to see any other picture than presented.It is difficult to see anything else if one is not part of the people who run a show,but if one wants to get involved in such way as to bring a child to professional tennis better be aware what is really going on.

[don_budge]

Simply marvelous...Big Time Wrestling

Harshly speaking is just a circus, like real circus where spectators pay and are allowed to see just part of what is really going on.Many are not able to see any other picture than presented.It is difficult to see anything else if one is not part of the people who run a show,but if one wants to get involved in such way as to bring a child to professional tennis better be aware what is really going on.

Aware is the key operative word. But tennis teaches us awareness doesn't it? That is if we are properly taught and mentored.

Wonderful comments...damir. May I ask from what country have you gained your knowledge and experience? Your point of view is like a breath of fresh air from another culture...another world. A fresh perspective...another perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

[don_budge]

For the LOVE of the game...

...is it alright to let my child pursue tennis as his/her raison d'être, as the primary objective in his/her life. There is only one good reason to allow that to happen, only one… and that has to be that they play the game because they love it. For the love of it. And never for the possible financial rewards.

For the love of the game...I love it! The only good reason.

[GeoffWilliams]

Actor, musicians, writers, all have a better chance of making a living than tennis lovers/players. Dismal prospects beyond belief face those who would deign to delude.

[damir]

Actor, musicians, writers, all have a better chance of making a living than tennis lovers/players. Dismal prospects beyond belief face those who would deign to delude.

Very smart observation.What people see on TV is one thing, and what is reality is completely another.I do not know which professional sport let so few participants to earn living as tennis does.

In tennis one has to reach 100 ATP/WTA and stay there for sometime so that one can say that it was worth it.Very unjust.

And to become 100 ATP/WTA is almost impossible (to become player like Williams,Federer,Nadal is out of the reach, and be like Djokovic,Sarapova one can just dream).

On one hand very few can make living by playing tennis, and on the other is so difficult in every aspect to become one of the few.

Regarding these facts it is unbelievable how many children/parents still try to make career in tennis.

I think that they are not aware what it takes to become professional tennis player - they do not understand what is going on, they see just one side of a coin - glory side.Nobody warns them,maybe some cheer them up to try.
Such approach will very probably cause a lot of trouble.

[damir]

For the love of the game...I love it! The only good reason.

There are really not highly competitive players who do not like tennis.One needs internal motivation because is very long and difficult path, and no amount of external incentive will do it.

Normally, one does not start with internal motivation for the game.It has to be developed little by little over time.

I remember how I started with my daughter.When she was 5 I bought her smaller racket, and took her with me when I had children group lessons.She was with me , many times, but she did not show any interest in tennis (she rather played by building different shapes from red clay).

Next year, when she was 6 years old, from time to time I would teach her something (hitting a ball in air,against a ground), but she would not come to tennis court.That fall, she started elementary school, and her condition to come to tennis practice was that she could bring someone from her class - so at the beginning she would sit in umpire chair and watch, and I would teach someone from her class.Little by little she started to participate more and more till the point when she did not conditioned her coming to a practice with someone else from her class present.

So, love for tennis (internal motivation) is learned through positive experiences as in other things.

[stotty]

Neither of my boys took to tennis until the age of ten. The played a little here and there as younger children but not much. I never pushed them and they came to tennis on their own terms.

The best thing about starting at ten is they are many times more likely to play tennis for life. Children start way too young these days and that is to the detriment of the game. I work mostly in the grass roots and development side of tennis and know this for sure.

Over two thirds of the kids who play mini red from the age of five have quit by aged ten. That is a fact.

[tennis_chiro]

Neither of my boys took to tennis until the age of ten. The played a little here and there as younger children but not much. I never pushed them and they came to tennis on their own terms.

The best thing about starting at ten is they are many times more likely to play tennis for life. Children start way too young these days and that is to the detriment of the game. I work mostly in the grass roots and development side of tennis and know this for sure.

Over two thirds of the kids who play mini red from the age of five have quit by aged ten. That is a fact.

The question I have, Stotty, is, "If it had been played with regular balls, courts, rackets, etc, would it have been even less than 1/3 that sticked with it?" Many deriding the QuickStart approach over here would probably say that it was because of QuickStart's shortcomings that so many quit, but I would say, on the contrary, a lot more children got a significant exposure to tennis and a positive exposure at that and holding 1/3 of them as lifelong players is actually excellent. Tennis is not for everyone. We see it through somewhat rose-colored glasses and don't understand how someone could fail to fall in love with the game, but it just isn't for everyone. But it is certainly a "sport for a lifetime" and one that a much greater percentage of the population should be playing. If we could expose a greater number of people to playing through QuickStart or whatever you call it over there (here it is now TAUT for tenandundertennis), and hold even a quarter of them as tennisplayers, that would be phenomenal. I think we have a much better chance of that if TAUT were more prevalent. And that is what they are trying to do.

You know what the fastest growing sport, probably in the world, is right now? It's pickel ball! Played on a small court with wooden paddles and a wiffle ball, especially by adults and very popular in senior communities. (bottle, with your reach and tennis skills, you might be world class in your age group!) They would have a lot of fun playing with the red ball. Check out pickelball on youtube.

don

[don_budge]

The Metaphysical Sport of Tennis...or Show Me The Money!

Tennis is not for everyone.

You know what the fastest growing sport, probably in the world, is right now? It's pickel ball! Played on a small court with wooden paddles and a wiffle ball, especially by adults and very popular in senior communities. (bottle, with your reach and tennis skills, you might be world class in your age group!) They would have a lot of fun playing with the red ball. Check out pickelball on youtube.

don

The fact of the matter is that tennis never was a sport for the masses...for good reason. It has always been an elite sport...it costs money to play. As in the 10,000 hour thread I was suggesting you better be ready with you first 10,000 dollar investment if you seek the path to the professional game. Would anyone care to put a dollar per hour estimate on those 10,000 hours? Don't forget the time is money as well. It's expensive.

For many years the amateur game dominated tennis. The amateur game was given all of the respect. All of the pomp and circumstance. The original professional tour was a bit of the circus type atmosphere in the sense it was move in one night...play a gig and roll the court back up and go to the next stop. Gypsy's in the night...traveling all night. To prove it all night.*

It doesn't matter what color balls kids play with...in the end it will come back to the simple statement...tennis is not for everyone. If a kid doesn't know why they are going to the tennis court...if they are not doing it on their own volition...it is of very little consequence. If however they show a definite interest and they are talking incessantly after their practice about how cool it is that may be a different story altogether.

It is a game for a lifetime. But it isn't something to be pursued as a profession. If it turns into a profession somewhat by accident...all the better. It's a strange game. A strange sport. It does things to you and it shapes you. Not always in good ways...but for the most part it is a blessing from God to mankind. A blessing in terms of recreation. Those magical and mystical lines...they change me when I am inside them. I left the game for 15 years to play golf...which I also fell in love with...but the game found me again.

But as in the Garden of Eden...temptation and man's inability to leave the things that God gave us intact...like nature and such**...the game has undergone a transformation....much as life has undergone a transformation these last thirty years. Since say for instance...1984. As damir is saying...the professional game is a circus. At the grass roots level it has been largely reduced to a babysitting affair mining for a pearl...a diamond in the rough...a needle in a haystack. Not the ideal recipe to begin a love affair with the game. Is it always about the money?

**http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/...obyl-disaster/

*Prove It All Night...Bruce Springsteen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXWDSAjeDk

I've been working real hard, trying to get my hands clean,
Tonight we'll drive that dusty road from Monroe to Angeline,
To buy you a gold ring and pretty dress of blue,
Baby just one kiss will get these things for you,
A kiss to seal our fate tonight,
A kiss to prove it all night.

Prove it all night,
Girl there's nothing else that we can do,
So prove it all night, prove it all night,
And girl I'll prove it all night for you.

Everybody's got a hunger, a hunger they can't resist,
There's so much that you want, you deserve much more than this,
But if dreams came true, oh, wouldn't that be nice,
But this ain't no dream we're living through tonight,
Girl, you want it, you take it, you pay the price.

Prove it all night, prove it all night girl and call the bluff,
prove it all night, prove it all night and girl,
I prove it all night for your love.

Baby, tie your hair back in a long white bow,
Meet me in the fields out behind the dynamo,
You hear the voices telling you not to go,
They made their choices and they'll never know,
What it means to steal, to cheat, to lie,
What it's like to live and die.

Wonderful thread damir...this one might just be around for a while...thanks for your thoughts. Speed up or progressive? In the words of the great American poet Jim Morrison of The Doors...Take It As It Comes. Specialize in having fun. You gotta be ready to prove it all night and you gotta take it as it comes. You have to know what to do and when to do it. A precarious balance...particularly for a child. Particularly for the parents of a child. If you choose this road to be a professional tennis player you are setting yourself up for heartbreak...or not. Maybe worse. Better to take it as it comes. If the opportunities arise...go for it. Otherwise be prudent. Life isn't all about money as some would have you believe. Suck a little of the juice out of it...have a good time.

It's sort of like relationships...everyone acknowledges that you have to work at them...it is when it becomes hard labor that I begin to protest and start reaching for the door.



"Take It As It Comes"...The Doors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp_tjYszBmQ

Time to live
Time to lie
Time to laugh
Time to die

Takes it easy, baby
Take it as it comes
Don't move too fast
And you want your love to last
Oh, you've been movin' much too fast

Time to walk
Time to run
Time to aim your arrows
At the sun

Takes it easy, baby
Take it as it comes
Don't move too fast
And you want your love to last
Oh, you've been movin' much too fast

Go real slow
You like it more and more
Take it as it comes
Specialize in havin' fun

Takes it easy, baby
Take it as it comes
Don't move too fast
And you want your love to last
Oh, you've been movin' much too fast
Movin' much too fast
Movin' much too fast

My dear old Dad plays pickleball three times a week at the age of 84. But he's not just anyone.

[damir]

Neither of my boys took to tennis until the age of ten. The played a little here and there as younger children but not much. I never pushed them and they came to tennis on their own terms.

The best thing about starting at ten is they are many times more likely to play tennis for life. Children start way too young these days and that is to the detriment of the game. I work mostly in the grass roots and development side of tennis and know this for sure.

Over two thirds of the kids who play mini red from the age of five have quit by aged ten. That is a fact.

As I said my daugher when she was 5 did not want to touch a tennis ball with her racket, but she was around tennis (making different shapes in red clay,watching other children play).She felt all the atmosphere around tennis court, and it may not seem, but it helped her to internalized tennis.

Ok this is luxury (at the time I did not look at it as such because I just took her along, but now I see - bring a child to tennis, and let her do other things in tennis environment - very few parents will have patience and time to do it)

It takes a lot of patience, time,tactics from parents to start children in tennis so that in time develops internal motivation for tennis.

Who as a parent would pay tennis coach to make different shapes in red clay with your child.

There are so many obstacles from very beginning so that it is even difficult to imagine what one (parent/child) have to go through just to have shot at becoming professional tennis player (there are so many steps which one has to climb, and with each step there are number of possibilities that will cause the end of journey - or there are number of details which one did not do good enough so it will allow few more steps, but will not allow reaching the top)

[damir]

In one of the famous books on tennis from German tennis federation from late seventhies, there was whole book how to start tennis using wooden peddles.

I though that it would be nice to try.I had opportunity to try like ten years later, and from my experience it would be really good way to start in tennis.

One as a child (I had children of different ages) can aquire much easier skills which are easy to transfer to real tennis later on.

This is part of what I mean by progressive approach - teach child something or somehow which at first moment does not seem to have direct relation to real tennis, but later on it proves as the way to facilliate learning.

How many parents are so mentally strong,and able to see things in broader perspective to see effectiveness of such approach.

[damir]

As somebody pointed out, entry to tennis is restricted by money.

I think that anyone who tries to bring a child to professional tennis is ultimately motivated by money(glory,fame)

Why would otherwise anyone spent so much money in trying to achieve this goal?

It differs in a way it is presented to a child:

1.From day one a child is made aware that the project is very costly, and that is expected return on investment
2.Little by little, a child is made aware of the cost (as a child grows as human being, and is able to absorb certain facts).

So, bringing a child to professional tennis must be look at it as business project.

It means that profitability is key part.

In my opinion, the difference between two aproaches of bringing a child to competitive tennis is whether profitabilty is the only measure of success or besides probitabily there is cost/benefit analysis (wellfare of a child)

Good analogy would be building a factory.In one approach the only criteria of success is return on investment, and in another besides return on investment, one considers ecological impact of a factory as well.

[damir]

Aware is the key operative word. But tennis teaches us awareness doesn't it? That is if we are properly taught and mentored.

Wonderful comments...damir. May I ask from what country have you gained your knowledge and experience? Your point of view is like a breath of fresh air from another culture...another world. A fresh perspective...another perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Croatia

[damir]

All these mentioned before was an intoroduction.Now , there is point where I would like to state these two methods:

speed- up, and
progressive.

With second look, I see there are possibly two methods, but actually there is just one in use, and this is speed-up method.

Why?There are fraction of parents with enough integrity, and mental toughness to be able so set their own pace.Mostly, they follow someone not knowing why.

I remember once, when one of the parents asked father of Mirjana Lucic how to become new Mirjana (highest ranked #32 WTA), he said that one has to train 7 hours per day six days per week.Many tried, but nobody succeeded.Some even used the same make and racket model, but it did not help.

[stotty]

All these mentioned before was an intoroduction.Now , there is point where I would like to state these two methods:

speed- up, and
progressive.

With second look, I see there are possibly two methods, but actually there is just one in use, and this is speed-up method.

Why?There are fraction of parents with enough integrity, and mental toughness to be able so set their own pace.Mostly, they folow someone not knowing way.

I remember once, when one of the parents asked father of Mirjana Lucic how to become new Mirjana (highest ranked #32 WTA), he said that one has to train 7 hours per day six days per week.Many tried, but nobody succeeded.Some even used the same make and racket model, but it did not help.

In my country the pace of progression is governed by the system, namely the ratings system...the system which grades players in terms of standard. Players must play lots of matches and achieve a 60% win ratio to move up. It starts at aged 6 and has to be kept pace with otherwise their rating will fall behind.

Players must achieve the highest possible rating as they pass through each age group to qualify for the best tournaments, to qualify for regional training camps, to qualify for funding from the governing body (the LTA). If a player doesn't play along with the ratings system their rating won't move up and they will be "locked out" of the parts system essential for making a good player.

There is only one system here: "speed up"... or drop out.

I never bothered with my kids. It's a 1 in 100,000 shot for a child to make. To get just one of my kids around Europe playing tournaments would cost $100,000 a year, and I don't have that. It's a rich man's game and always will be.

My kids started aged ten...better. It will be a game for life for them. The chances of burnout are greatly reduced by starting later.