Jack Kramer explains various Grips...

[hockeyscout]

Well you definately have Lansdorp wrong. He's probably, in the technical and fundamentals sense, the most demanding coach that ever walked the earth.

He'll have kids hitting the same shots for hrs, until perfection, and has always been an advocate for good grips.....

He would be the last person, to subscribe to the notion "let kids hit however they want". In fact, it would be funny to hear his response

As far as the Sampras example is concerned, yeah, like any good coach, they are inclined to allow variations as they see fit, after sound fundamentals are established.

You want your daughter to develope an all court game, and have some autonomy in style, good grips are the foundation for making that possible. Poor grips lead to future limitations.

I disagree. He even said in one of his articles, fire a coach who tries to change you. The one where he talked about the two handed and the one handed backhand. He also said, see the pro once a week, go work on your own, come back to me. If their is a coach who doesn't make his players reliant on him that is the guy. He's not demanding. Really, he is the way a coach - teacher is supposed to be! He simply respects his time, works hard, and asks the same of a player. If a player can't feel his passion, and work ethic, and understand he needs to perform at a certain level, then it's not going to be a great mix. Geez, go to China, you'll see strict coaching there. The guys a pretty cool cat, and I don't think you can see it is just an act, and he's a master at quickly figuring out what he is dealing with and pushing the right buttons.

[hockeyscout]

He would be the last person, to subscribe to the notion "let kids hit however they want". In fact, it would be funny to hear his response

Really?

You sure?

I have to wonder if Lansdorf would have changed Nadal's grip? Or Borg's? Or, Bartoli's? I'm sure he knows what works and why it works, and respects individual variances and uniqueness.

And come on, it's all an act with him, and he's good at it, and if you read what the pro's have to say they know it, and laugh about it now (ie: Tracy Austin comments).

[stotty]

Despair

I think this thread, which started so promisingly, has gone off the wall. We'll need a moderator at this rate.

We need to get our "house in order" as Macci would say.

[10splayer]

I think this thread, which started so promisingly, has gone off the wall. We'll need a moderator at this rate.

We need to get our "house in order" as Macci would say.

Yeah, no worries. I'll step aside....

[stotty]

Yeah, no worries. I'll step aside....

Not you 10splayer...you can step in whenever you like. You're concise and to the point. It's when a poster runs rampant that things go off the wall.

[hockeyscout]

Not you 10splayer...you can step in whenever you like. You're concise and to the point. It's when a poster runs rampant that things go off the wall.

I apologize for not agreeing with any of your coaching philosophies.

[stotty]

I apologize for not agreeing with any of your coaching philosophies.

I give up...

[10splayer]

I give up...

Good idea. Let the social experiment/reinvent the wheel theories continue. Never knew good fundamentals and or grips were so controversial. Good grief, this is starting to become silly.

[don_budge]

Backhand Grip for Balls hit Over the Head on the Forehand side...

You want your kid to ever be able to serve?

We started some adult training classes at out little club here in Sweden...a sparsely populated country in the heart of Scandinavia. One of the things that I passionately love about this place is that there aren't many people.

But the adults that are taking the classes are probably 85% women which is just fine with me...as you can well imagine. So they have been taking their classes about once or twice a week for the past six months or so. They surprise me at how quickly they catch on and how enthusiastic they are. Many of their children are in our junior program. Maybe 85% have children in the program. It's great because it gives me a chance to talk to them about their children.

I have one rule that is never broken in my training. No parents allowed on the court. It's a great rule and not one parent has attempted to breach it. I have beautiful relationships with the parents as well. They are encouraged to watch from the observation post. The kids are on their own...with me as their supervisor. No one questions my authority or methods. There are good reasons why they don't...you can imagine.

The adults have reached a point in their training where it is time to learn how to serve...so I emphasize the overhead smash and the serve together. I throw in some additional emphasis on the volley at this point. It's all connected...you know. Connecting dots. I find myself living to this beat and rhythm...connecting the three little dots. It works for me. I am not certain if it would work for others. You are welcome to try it. My mentor at this method was none other than Ferdinand Celine. He has served me in good stead.

Where was I? Oh yes...the serve and the overhead. I have a little joke that I play on them...I ask why is it called an overhead? Get it? Because you hit the ball when it is over your head. Funny? How do you like me so far? But anyways...after they collect themselves and stop looking at each other quizzedly...I spring the punch line on them.

The odd thing about the overhead and the serve...they are both swung at from the forehand side of the body but you use the backhand grip on the racquet. Most find it more desirable initially to use the forehand grip...but the wrist will not perform the duties and responsibilities that it was designed to when swing at balls over your head if you use the forehand grip. Yet nearly everyone says that it feels strange at first. I can't remember how I felt when I first used the backhand grip...gee that was back in the days of Arthur...when I was young. Just a young wizard then. Not so wizened. When I set them up in the backhand grip every single one of them get the look on their face as if they are confused. It feels funny they say to a man...or rather to a woman.

There is this one particularly beautiful woman who has a forehand grip on her serve and she really can belt it. She's a great athletic specimen...not necessarily Olympic or anything but if she got you in some kind of bear hug...you might be fighting for your next breath. Oh well...what a way to go. But she is going to change her grip. I leave it up to her...but I ask her...what do you want to do? Continue serving 30% or less than on your first serves or will you switch your grip so that you can spin the ball and swing harder while upping your first serve percentage to 65% or better? It's a rhetorical question. She looks at me and realizes that I have her trapped and she has no choice...if she wants to improve. Too bad that she wasn't originally taught the backhand grip...now she is going to have to backtrack.

Oh well...I must have a little Machiavelli in me. A Little Prince. The ends justify the means. I sort of get a deeper appreciation of forcing people to do things that they don't necessarily feel comfortable with but they have no choice. Afterall...it's checkmate. I never lose...on paper. Lady Mercy won't be home tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyka1gkodo

[bottle]

It's not that they're controversial, in fact they're taken too much for granted. People think they know what you mean when you say "eastern" or "semiwestern." But what if the finger arrangement is a little different? Suddenly you have an eastern behaving like a semiwestern? Or what if wrist observably straightens in a video of Wawrinka's backhand? Any change in wrist setting is a big change in pitch setting. And peoples' hands come in different shapes-- another big factor. And is the grip a diagonal grip? Or a hammer grip? A huge difference not to be underestimated. And how weird is the curled wrist of McEnroe or Ash? Because of the curl, aside from the weak grip, they swing closed to the ball, don't they?

None of it would matter, I guess, if you were so virtuosic that you never held the racket the same way twice. There have been great players like that but only a few. In the interest of repeatability one wants (usually) repeatability in the grip used?

Maybe I'm oversensitive to this from coming from a golfing family. But if you consider all the information we ever receive about tennis technique, you really need to put grip stuff in a category all of its own. Because the slightest difference in position of hand on handle and configuration of fingers and wrist has OUT-SIZED effect.

[hockeyscout]

This will be my last word on this subject (thread).

It's interesting. I've got much different athletic coaching values coming from hockey, and transitioning over to tennis.

EXTREME polar opposites.

Tennis as a sport doing that's doing superbly? Their's no need to reinvent the wheel? Experimentation isn't vital?

Good fundamentals, nutrition, psychology, movement and grips (and whatever else) SHOULD be controversial and hotly debated.

Tilden, Pancho, Billy Jean, Bjorn, John, Pete, Ivan Martina Venus, Roger and Rafa (sorry Don Budge) have all reinvented the game, and changed perceptions in their time on what good fundamentals really are!

Technology and smarter athletes will expose a lot of gaps in the future, and the NFL and NBA are at the top of the game, and that's where learning will come from right now.

The best coaches (in any sport) I have ever met always diminished their importance, and focused first priority on creating - educating an athlete, so that athlete won't need them, or they can be passed on to the next person who can assist them more.

So that's it, that's my philosophy. Athlete driven. Player first. Try this, play, play, play, sort it out, ask, study, be self driven, repeat, repeat, improve, feel it, get excited by the process and keep doing it. Live it. Love it. Fun. Repeat, repeat and repeat. Safely. Fluidly. Beautifully. Eye candy. Repeat. And, talk, talk and talk. It's okay to be stupid. No one remembers Steve Jobs trial - tribulations and stupidity. We just remember that darn good IPHONE end product, and look forward to the next dude who reinvents the wheel and amazes us with something better!

Now we can move on?

[hockeyscout]

Maybe I'm oversensitive to this from coming from a golfing family. But if you consider all the information we ever receive about tennis technique, you really need to put grip stuff in a category all of its own. Because the slightest difference in position of hand on handle and configuration of fingers and wrist has OUT-SIZED effect.

I come from a hockey family, and it's the same. God help you if you kinetic chain is not in order, and if your grip isn't absolutely perfect, cause that head of the hockey stick is more unforgiving that golf! Well, and then you have to shoot, and make sure you don't get hammered with a hard check as well. So, it's a science as well, and it takes so many hours to learn. So, yes, I get it as well.

[don_budge]

don_budge...

Tilden, Pancho, Billy Jean, Bjorn, John, Pete, Ivan Martina Venus, Roger and Rafa (sorry Don Budge) have all reinvented the game, and changed perceptions in their time on what good fundamentals really are!

hockeyscout...it's don_budge please. Thank you.

[hockeyscout]

It takes so much effort to find the _ thing on the computer!

[bottle]

In crew, if you don't get grip just right, you fly out of the boat and don't win the race.