The Tennis Tea Party and Ten and Under Tennis

[johnyandell]

And Stotty one more question, showing my lack of knowledge...is the green dot ball mandated in the 10s just in England or is that country by country or is it worldwide ITF??

[klacr]

Getting back to Barry's piece, he hit quite a nerve with Wayne himself and has received multiple emails from a surprising range--including Andy Roddick's mother if you can believe it.

Wayne sent me a nice email as well praising Tennisplayer and I told him I thought he came off better than Wilt in Barry's piece. Check out Wayne's line by line rebuttal!


http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...dex_wayne.html

LOVE THIS! The power of tennisplayer.net. Kudos to have Wayne Bryan chime in. No doubt his passion and enthusiasm for tennis is coming from a genuine place. Kudos to Barry Buss for penning an attention getting article and kudos to John Yandell for publishing it. Everyone involved in tennis wants to see our juniors and pros do well in the USA. Everyone involved in tennis also has their strong opinions of how to make this happen. This is a continuing and evolving story. For all that we have accomplished in the past and all we wish to accomplish in the future, it's going to take some work, some ingenuity and some cooperation from all that have a voice in our sport. What's the best way? There are no guarantees. But let's keep this passion.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...dex_wayne.html


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[jeffreycounts]

I love this too, with this being my favorite:

More than a decade ago I played one of his kids in singles, the left handed one. I think most people in tennis would call him Bob and not the "left handed one'.

I love Barry's irreverence. The "left handed one". Lol.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/notes_on_tour/barry_buss/tennis_tea_party/index_wayne.html

[stotty]

And Stotty one more question, showing my lack of knowledge...is the green dot ball mandated in the 10s just in England or is that country by country or is it worldwide ITF??

It's worldwide...but don't take my word for it see here:

http://www.itftennis.com/about/news/articles/regular-tennis-ball-eliminated-from-ten-and-under-competition.aspx

I believe the Spanish ignore ITF rules and do as they always have. Over here the LTA nailed it through competition. No point coaching and training with a yellow ball when kids are going to be using orange/green in tournaments.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/notes_on_tour/barry_buss/tennis_tea_party/index_wayne.html

[johnyandell]

Stotty,

I would have taken your word for it. But thanks for the great link. I am only 2 years behind...but this latest little debate got my interest... thanks!

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...dex_wayne.html

[don_budge]

Much ado...

...about nothing. Playing politics with children. Powerful egos at play. Not to mention bucks...big equipment bucks. You can bet that the equipment companies have a vested interest in this debate and thus a lobbying presence. Renegade coaches...count me in. I don't care what their position is...just count me in. What's with all the regulations? Chaos and nihilism bring out the best in the race...the human race. Not that the best is all that good.

I use orange balls with beginning adults. I use them with kids. But they are as fascinated with speed as the next guy. They want to always use the faster balls. Always. Why not? Let them do as they want. They are the boss of the house these days anyways.

Interesting line by line rebuttal by Mr. Bryan. Obviously intellectual and measured as opposed to the keenly instinctual and admittedly dysfunctional Barry Buss. But everyone is dysfunctional...this is no rap against Barry. I have a lot of respect for him and the two diametrically opposed opinions are good for the game. Let's arrange a match between Barry's kids vs. Bryan's boys. Let them settle and then everyone goes out for pizza afterwards. Let's let the Arabs and the Israelis hammer it out in the Middle East. Leave it alone. See what happens. More pizza afterwards.

Please don't try and argue that one way or another is going to amount to a hill of beans. 10 year olds...they have a long way to go. But they cannot be discounted as a lot...there is big bucks in kids. Equipment, lessons...the whole shebang. I have to admit that they are making up some 50% of my work. 90% of them may quit the game before the age of 12...who cares? There is more of them where they come from. The experience won't hurt them...provided they don't run into something ala Barry Buss' tough road to success.

It's a family affair...just as Stotty mentioned in his post. Tennis runs in the family. I really wonder what Louis CK would say if he weighed in on the subject. Something quite funny I imagine. Astutely intelligent too. Too bad that tennis has sunk to this level. Making children pivotal at the tender age of 10...or under. I don't get it. What gives? Tennis is a thinking man's game. Children cannot even tie their shoes correctly. I know about prodigies...trust me. But the one that I knew never played with soft balls and nobody forced him to do anything...except perhaps his exceptionally strong willed father.

I must admit that it is a fascinating argument...particularly when you see what an effort that Mr. Bryan makes to be polite and yet is able to slip in the ironic and sardonic witticisms. I like it. At least the coaches remember how to fight like dogs. It's tough to teach 10 years olds to do that. Wilt Chamberlain even. I saw him play in St. Louis in 1963...it was an NBA double header. The Celtics were there with Bill Russell and John Havelcik. The Philadelphia 76's had Chamberlain and Hal Greer...Wilt the Stilt averaged over 50 points a game. He must have had 60 or more that night. Dunk...dunk...dunk. Finger rolls. Danish pastries. St. Louis Hawks had Zelmo Beaty and Bob Pettit. Cincinatti Royals had Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas. I was eight years old...just being a kid. With my dad at the helm of the situation.

[barrybuss]

Pulling on Superman's Cape...

Well that was depressing...But I didn't expect a whole lot more...I wrote my two part essay "USTA..Keep your hands off my tennis!!!" (available unedited and in full at my website Barrybuss.com) to add an alternative perspective to the multiple debates circulating in our tennis world as to how best guide our sport forward to a healthier future.

My argument was two part..a defense of some of the moderate adjustments occurring in tennis today and a critique of the critiques...I've been following the debates, dissecting the rhetoric. Whether it was ten and under tennis, the state of American player development, or rules changes to our junior or college play, something just didn't seem correct to me. The collective tone of the resistance to change sounded eerily familiar.

The tone was pure Tea Party. I know the Tea Party. My education is in Political Science. I follow this stuff closely. I wrote my essays calling them out so. Why is Tea Party rhetoric something to be concerned about? Because the Tea Party is not a party of leadership, it is a party of protest. In all of my life, I have never heard more whining, bitching and complaining about menial shit from grown men supposedly in positions of authority and leadership. It's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for them, I'm embarrassed for our sport. If this is what leadership looks like in tennis' private sector, our sport's in more trouble than anyone can imagine.

Their attitude was so reactionary, emotional, angry, critical, and so jingoistic...Wrap all that up and you have toxic. These people and their arguments are pure toxicity to the overall health of the sport. I believed that three years ago when I started reading all the email missives from Mr. Bryan and his followers. I believed it more strongly when I wrote my two essays on this. I am thoroughly convinced after the thirty odd emails I just received from Mr Bryan and his cohorts from John's publishing of my piece here that they are the problem in our sport, not the solution.

Many of his flock are accomplished people in their own rights. But those accomplishments in the fields of coaching and playing and parenting do not automatically qualify them as experts in organizational structures and the long term growth of a million member organization that they are just a small sliver. When I read their complaints riddled with their political philosophy, the lack of any logical coherence to their positions makes me want to poke my eyes out.


Its alright to have a fourth grade understanding of how organizations work...if you're in fourth grade. I don't have the time or stomach here to dissect how juvenile the counter positions put forth by Bryan and crew are on many of the pressing issues of our sport. Frankly, I have nothing more to say to any of them. I pulled on Superman's cape here with the reaction being nothing short of disturbing. Dr. Phil would have a field day with this crew if he could stomach to sit across from them.

What does all this mean? I spent a couple days formulating "gotcha" counter arguments to all the 30 emails I received during this past week. But I'm done with these guys. Every writer has an audience and objective in my mind when publishing. Though my polemic certainly confronts those of the tennis tea party and their views, they are not my target audience. Nobody is changing anybody's mind here. We are all locked in to our positions with great pride and ego guarding the gates.


The internet can be a frustrating and inefficient method by which to debate. It takes hours and hours to write a coherent logical essay, mere minutes to read said essay, mere seconds to forget what was read or misinterpret what was written. The debates quickly spiral far off topic, resulting in a plethora of sarcastic and snide "gotcha" commentaries. This is the world of ideas that we are stuck in. My hope here is to reach the thousands and thousands of readers who are not locked in to inflexible positions re all the topics being debated in the public sphere. The other goal is to put the Tennis Tea party on notice that your arguments are being read and dissected, and that you absolutely do not speak for the tennis community en masse. Far from it actually.

In conclusion, I will repeat what I said in a prior piece. These people had their time. It's time to move forward with new voices, new ideas, and new leaderships.. I believe the sport will head in this direction and turn it around in time, with or without the Old Guard arguing every call like it was their last.

My conclusion:

So where do we as a sport go from here? Somehow, someway, the USTA all on its own built itself up from nothing into the organization it is today. Now, in just a few years, we have an emerging protest group who feel they know best, that their old ways of the past provide the best path to the future. And that the USTA should amend its charter and run all its policy decisions through them. Wow, well somebody sure has some healthy self-esteem going here.

So what's really under their skin??? What really is all this protesting about???


Their anger about elite American tennis? It stems from expectations...Expectations that every cycle of Americans will be as successful as the one before...Their frustration is that gap, that gap between their expectations and our present reality. Nowhere is it ordained that American's Mens tennis is supposed to always be the best. Past results do not predict future results. Every five year cycle brings forward a whole new crop of players. The last two cycles of Americans have not been as successful as the previous five year cycles. No shame on them. Their lack or results is not a result of poor training, or ineffective, inefficient coaching systems. We just didn't have the horses these past two cycles. The quicker you begin to accept and understand that, the healthier our sport will be moving forward...

The other part of their anger seems personal. That our sport has chosen to move forward without them. Seems odd with the USTA's commitment to investing heavily in the future success of its players, that with all of their big personalities and strong legacy's of success, that the USTA wants absolutely nothing to do with any of them. If that was killing them before, with all their public displays of discontent and malice, I believed they've dropped the fatal blow on themselves of ever being included in tennis' future discussions ever again.

But their anger seems personal on an even deeper level. Very similar to the political tea party, the tennis tea party are part of a generational angst. They are baby boomers who are far from babies anymore. Their collective place of dominance in society, as white straight American males is being challenged at every turn in society, as well as in tennis.

Their fear of change speaks more to their fear of loss, that the path forward does not include the ideals which they hold dearly. That somehow the ideas this new generation of leaders are employing are heading us down a path to failure; one we will never be able to recover from.

But to the more sensitive reader, there is another fear in their words. It's that fear that the times are changing, and they are incapable of changing with them...that someday down the road there will be a victory party, headed by new leaders with new ideas, that in the end will not includethem

And they'll be left with just themselves, to commiserate with, or dig in and regroup and comeback to complain another day.

[bottle]

I'm impressed by Mr. Bryan's pursuit of Latin-- often the beginning of a classical education which includes reading the essayist Michel de Montaigne-- but wasn't overly fond of his hanging blue ornaments on a good Barry Buss article as if it were a Christmas tree. If you are going to the trouble of doing that, I'd say, write your own article.

Also, I didn't agree with any poster who intimated that Bryan blew Buss out of the water-- simply not true since Buss is not only wiser but much, much funnier. Bryan's adulation of Sean Hannity would appear to indicate severe gum loss and lack of character.

I believe that Buss's unresponded to comment to Stilt Chamberlain alluding to Chamberlain's famous assertion about how many women he has laid was the best on court riposte to audience intimidation of a player in the history of tennis, but I do give credit to Wilt for then walking away.

[10splayer]

I'm impressed by Mr. Bryan's pursuit of Latin-- often the beginning of a classical education which includes reading the essayist Michel de Montaigne-- but wasn't overly fond of his hanging blue ornaments on a good Barry Buss article as if it were a Christmas tree. If you are going to the trouble of doing that, I'd say, write your own article.

Also, I didn't agree with any poster who intimated that Bryan blew Buss out of the water-- simply not true since Buss is not only wiser but much, much funnier. Bryan's adulation of Sean Hannity would appear to indicate severe gum loss and lack of character.

I believe that Buss's unresponded to comment to Stilt Chamberlain alluding to Chamberlain's famous assertion about how many women he has laid was the best on court riposte to audience intimidation of a player in the history of tennis, but I do give credit to Wilt for then walking away.

Agreed. Forget about the issue, Buss by knockout. "It's ok to have a 4th grade understanding in organizational development...if you're in 4th grade. I love it.

[don_budge]

John Steinback...

"The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIqHb58Iq-A

[bottle]

To achieve her goals, she should tell them all to __ ____ __________ .

[sfrazeur]

While Tennis is a worldly game I tend to think too many interested in US Tennis are too concerned with professional tennis and creating world class players.

I think we should increase our concern with creating a country that plays tennis. Instead we are a country that plays basketball, baseball, football and soccer. American soccer, practically seems like an oxymoron, but kids play it in droves. There is little to any real American presence in the world of professional soccer yet the sport is alive and well in America.

Why is that? One very important reason is because it is accessible. Soccer has had mini/micro soccer for years. Soccer can be played anywhere there is a flattish, ideally grass surface. Tennis has not been accessible: the traditional ball and comparatively oversized court has been too much for most kids since the beginning.

Tennis actually has the opportunity to be far more accessible and less costly than other sports. In soccer to compete you need shin guards, special shoes and a team. Baseball you need helmet, uniform, shoes, bat and a team. Football and hockey you need helmet, padding, a team, etc. With Tennis you need a racquet and to enter a tournament. Your regular clothes and shoes will more than likely be fine.

The USTA made the correct decision to mandate 10U. Too many selfish, myopic tennis pros would have kept their students on yellow ball and 78' court without the mandate because it was how they themselves were taught.

It is funny to me how some of these "Tea Party Tennis Pros" take the 10U mandate not only so personally but as an affront to their sense of nationalism. Some claim it is a socialist conspiracy by the USTA and that it is a sign of the decline of our american heritage and culture. See the "We Coach TENNIS" Facebook group.

[johnyandell]

SF,

Perfectly said.

[tennis_chiro]

I don't think very many people have seen the videos of the high end competition that takes place with the 8-year-olds on the reduced court and with the red or orange or even foam balls on the 36' court. I was absolutely floored when I first saw those kids moving around and playing tough points. They looked like Murray and Nadal looked today in Rome. The movement and reactions can be stupifying. They are learning a kind of movement and competition that I am not at all sure they can attain on a full sized court with full size rackets and regular balls.

Let me put it another way. And this would have to be when I was experiencing no injuries and a few years ago when I could move a little better. But for me to approximate what Murray and Nadal and the rest are doing, I would have to play with the green ball or maybe even more likely the orange ball on at most the 60' court and probably with a 26" racket so I could get it around quickly enough. And even then I would probably have to go straight from the court to the emergency room or at least my chiropractor to get some help trying to get my body to recover from that violent movement.

No, that certainly is not classic tennis. But that kind of movement is necessary to be able to play the modern game. And it's a lot of fun. At least when your body can still move like that.

don

[stotty]

I don't think very many people have seen the videos of the high end competition that takes place with the 8-year-olds on the reduced court and with the red or orange or even foam balls on the 36' court. I was absolutely floored when I first saw those kids moving around and playing tough points. They looked like Murray and Nadal looked today in Rome. The movement and reactions can be stupifying. They are learning a kind of movement and competition that I am not at all sure they can attain on a full sized court with full size rackets and regular balls.

don

I've seen it...and not just on video. Amazing, isn't it?