Roddick Serve; "Double Pumping/Cocking"

[GMann]

Dear John, as I've commented when the article first came out, I was very impressed with your thorough, thoughtful and insightful analysis of the Roddick Serve. While I thought your article was much stronger in all of the same 3 adjectives (thorough, thoughtful and insightful) than an article on the same subject by Heath Waters on Tennisone, the one thing that he discusses that you don't seem to go into is this "double cocking action" that Roddick seems to do right before he begins his swing towards impact.

I realize that perhaps you discuss this using different terminology, but my instincts tell me that he is on to something here. When I see Roddick serve I don't necessarily always detect the "double-cocking" or "double-pumping" in his motion and perhaps it's something that the player feels rather than he shows when hitting this shot. Or perhaps it's nothing more than what must happen in the motion once Roddick gets into his unique set to launch position. Or finally, perhaps this is just another example of an author doctoring his video to comport with his thesis which you have exposed before. I note that the video accompanying his article does seems to clearly show Roddick doing this "double-cocking."

I recall reading that you once made some comment regarding Roddick's "double pump" mechanics at some ATP convention or something last year so perhaps you've already thought this through. In any case, I would very much appreciate it if you could comment on this concept in relation to Roddick's serve so that you can clear it up for me.

[johnyandell]

I guess I'm just not sure what that is. I've tried to describe the motion as I see it, including the backswing and the different power position and the outside turn of the hand. I have to admit I don't always read through everything everyone else out there may write. If you are talking about how he pulls his elbow back after the sideways wind up I guess I could visualize that as "cocking" but the terminology does really make sense to me. If you want to try to specify it I can try to comment. But it's possible you may be looking for something that isn't there...

[GMann]

Thanks for responding. If you have a chance, please to go Waters's article on the Roddick serve which you can still find at tennnisone.com. The accompanying video seems to show this double-cocking. I realize that it might be nothing more than Roddick pulling the elbow back before he starts swinging towards the ball. For your convenience, here is what Waters says. I realize that he probably has his terminology wrong including the obvious mistake of referring to the obsolete "back scratch" position.

"Rusedski, Sampras, and Philippoussis go straight to the cocked position (known to many as the scratch back position) when the upper arm and lower arm form 90 degrees and all three are in the scratch back position much longer than Mr. Roddick.

"Roddick gets to this same position but holds the 90 degree position with his forearm parallel to the ground and his racquet pointing in front of him and not straight up to the sky as the other gentlemen. He then will make a double cocking action right before he begins his swing towards impact into "number two." This is reason number two why Roddick consistently obtains more power than the other servers.

I really think he has discovered something here worth experimenting with. By using this motion he gets more of the slingshot or whip-like action that enables him to generate more racquet speed than the others. Observe below"

Hopefully, this will shed some more light on what he's talking about or trying to talk about.

[johnyandell]

Well, I'm not a member of TennisONE... What I think he is describing is Roddick's move from the new power position I describe in the article. Still not sure this phrase means anything. I'll just stick with my analysis at this point.

[stroke]

Gman, I subscribe to tennisone also, and have viewed Heath Waters take on the Roddick serve. I think basicly the double pump Heath refers to is the arm position John Yandell refers to as the new power position. It looks to me Roddick pulls his elbow back further as he goes into his leg drop just before he explodes to the ball. I think what he is doing is streching his chest possibly just past a straight line, as John points out in his piece on the Roddick serve. Heath refers to this as a double pump. I think John's observation of what Andy is doing, streching his chest out and loading up to serve, is much more descriptive than calling it a double pump. Heath then says Andy goes from this #1 position(double pump or chest stretch, when his forearm is about parallel to the ground) to the #2 postion with the racket head pointing up, the traditional serve position. In my opinion, there is not a position #2 for Andy. He explodes out of his new power position, where his forearm is parallel to the ground, this is the last position he holds before he strikes the ball. I feel like John does a much better job of putting into words just what Andy is doing. As John points out, since Andy is starting his motion from this new power position, he has a longer way to go before contact, more swing range to pick up head speed.

[johnyandell]

Stroke,

You really understood that Roddick article!

John Yandell