The Serve and Volley Mentality

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss Kyle LaCroix's article, "The Serve and Volley Mentality"

[klacr]

Stirring

Just to stir the pot...

Edberg vs. Muster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZ-K0GQDHA

Edberg vs. Agassi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYaFLDkQC7E


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[captnemo]

the thing I find most interesting is the anti s and v herd. If Roger Federer can't serve and volley and Pete Sampras is old and over the hill and Stefan Edberg is someone most people have not heard of--then at the club I should try to develop my heavy topspin because obviously the way to win or at least look cool is to play like rafa...

anyone else think that is crazy? i don't serve and volley all the time because i am not dominant at it. do i win some matches by serve and volleying, yes.

[GeoffWilliams]

The skill level required to sv is way higher than baseline. Most don't have the serve for it, let alone the multitude of shots at net required: power volleys without missing them; touch drops off fakes; angle half volleys low and away; stretched out volleys for winners; high bh volleys; body shot volleys; down the line volleys until the cc is 30% more open than dtl; two and three stage sequence volleys; anticipatory moves based on previous shots; ghost in volleys, swinging ground stroke volleys, etc. If you can't keep the serve out of the returners strike zone, you won't be any good at all. That's the main reason why it's dying/dead. It's too hard to learn all those things.

[klacr]

Great points Geoff. I'll be discussing some of those shots in a future article. Stay tuned.

There are shots a serve and volley needs that require a specific skill set. But at the club level, it does not need to be necessarily mastered, just understood a little bit better and then worked on from there. By avoiding the net altogether, many players miss out on golden opportunities and a chance to really have a complete game. It can be intimidating up there but having a good mindset and acceptance of what to expect at net can carry them far.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

The best approach against better players is to develop a twist/kick serve that they can't run around, fast enough, and disguised fakes then slice to their fh, so they cannot run around the shot all the time or get burned doing it. Off groundies, the best approach against better players is to come in only if: the shot coming in is short, and high enough to blast dtl: or, to only come into net when you have accidentally hurt the player, so you know he's going to slice a defensive return shot, or you have hurt him so badly you know he can only attempt a pass dtl, and to cover that dtl shot like a blanket.

Against weaker players, you can come into net more often, but even 4.0 players can pump it past you! Also, to develop a "snap back" overhead, wherein you snap back against the drop, to create vicious whip lash and a powerful oh even when going backwards. Also, to manipulate them into: passing to an area, and to lobbing off your approaches by over closing the net at first, so that they think you are going to be vulnerable to a lob game. You give up a couple of points fooling them into dropping back into a tactic that you want them to stay with: lobs, or passing dtl. By over covering. Over close, too close to the net. Over cover the cross court passing shot. Most won't realize until the match is over they have been out thought.

[don_budge]

It's a Mental Game...Serve and Volley

Let's discuss Kyle LaCroix's article, "The Serve and Volley Mentality"

You're damn right...as John McEnroe said to Jiminy Glick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW0gQ2dP2aI

John McEnroe is the greatest serve and volley player that I can personally remember. I saw him try to qualify for the U. S. Open in 1976 or thereabouts. He was just sixteen and had all of his ducks in a row. The match was on Har-Tru but he was all over the net with his little wooden Jack Kramer Pro Staff. Just look at his "feigned" attitude in this Jiminy Glick video. He has the timing of a comedian. He's also a musician. He was also a magician with a wooden tennis racquet.

Well this guy had plenty of serve and volley attitude didn't he. Going to the net with guys like Björn Borg, Ivan Lendl and Jimmy Connors taking dead aim at him. That takes a lot of attitude. Mentally he was up to the challenge. No fear. You have to believe in yourself to the n'th degree...otherwise any shadow of doubts is going to be your undoing. You must be fully resolved and committed. The ability to serve and volley is the sum of technique, tactics and as you write...serve and volley mentality. Attitude.

Your discussion about attitude catches the essence of the spirit of the serve and volley player. Even though you pick up your discussion in the pseudo arena of tennis...the modern serve and volleyers like Stefan "Sleepy Bear" Edberg and Boris "Boom Boom" Becker. If you are going to serve and volley one must be resigned to the fact that you are gambling...you are taking matters into your own hands. But with the proper approach game philosophy and execution you can tip the odds in your favor. Serve and volley tactics is a real mental challenge because it is such a gamble. Like a John McEnroe, a true serve and volley player will have so much belief in their service motion and in their resolve to carry out the kamikaze like mission. The mission is to blanket the net and smother the opponent.

When I was in college at Ohio University...just a couple of hundred years ago...Miami University in Ohio had a couple of really fine serve and volley players. Steven Kendal from New Jersey and Craig Wittus from Michigan. Both beautiful and elegant players and first rate serve and volleyers out of the classical mode...although Craig did jump on board really early with the Prince Graphite. You couldn't keep these guys off of the net. They were so much fun to watch but murder to play against. As a doubles team...well you can imagine.

But there is a vast chasm between the classic serve and volley game and the modern serve and volley game. The current modern game is factored with so many engineered variables which currently make serve and volley a long shot. Since tennis is a game made up of "percentage" play...it is almost foolhardy to believe that under the current conditions it can be carried out on a continuous basis. Ironically...it was the engineering in the first place that was the inspiration of "shock and awe" serve and volleying ala Edberg and Becker. Anybody that could walk and chew gum became an instant volley machine. The wooden racquet classic game was a bit more cat and mouse. Subtle.

Such is the case at the moment...but things can change very quickly. I love the articles. You have to wonder though...just how is that such a fundamental aspect of the sport was allowed to engineered out of the game as obsolete. You really must be careful Kyle...you don't want to classified as a "nostalgist" on the "Planet of Tennis". It's the kiss of death in the accreditation circles.

That being said...what goes 'round comes 'round. Serve and volley just may be coming 'round again. It isn't going to be easy or smooth...afterall it is largely a mental thing as well.

[klacr]

You're damn right...as John McEnroe said to Jiminy Glick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW0gQ2dP2aI

John McEnroe is the greatest serve and volley player that I can personally remember. I saw him try to qualify for the U. S. Open in 1976 or thereabouts. He was just sixteen and had all of his ducks in a row. The match was on Har-Tru but he was all over the net with his little wooden Jack Kramer Pro Staff. Just look at his "feigned" attitude in this Jiminy Glick video. He has the timing of a comedian. He's also a musician. He was also a magician with a wooden tennis racquet.

Well this guy had plenty of serve and volley attitude didn't he. Going to the net with guys like Björn Borg, Ivan Lendl and Jimmy Connors taking dead aim at him. That takes a lot of attitude. Mentally he was up to the challenge. No fear. You have to believe in yourself to the n'th degree...otherwise any shadow of doubts is going to be your undoing. You must be fully resolved and committed. The ability to serve and volley is the sum of technique, tactics and as you write...serve and volley mentality. Attitude.

Your discussion about attitude catches the essence of the spirit of the serve and volley player. Even though you pick up your discussion in the pseudo arena of tennis...the modern serve and volleyers like Stefan "Sleepy Bear" Edberg and Boris "Boom Boom" Becker. If you are going to serve and volley one must be resigned to the fact that you are gambling...you are taking matters into your own hands. But with the proper approach game philosophy and execution you can tip the odds in your favor. Serve and volley tactics is a real mental challenge because it is such a gamble. Like a John McEnroe, a true serve and volley player will have so much belief in their service motion and in their resolve to carry out the kamikaze like mission. The mission is to blanket the net and smother the opponent.

When I was in college at Ohio University...just a couple of hundred years ago...Miami University in Ohio had a couple of really fine serve and volley players. Steven Kendal from New Jersey and Craig Wittus from Michigan. Both beautiful and elegant players and first rate serve and volleyers out of the classical mode...although Craig did jump on board really early with the Prince Graphite. You couldn't keep these guys off of the net. They were so much fun to watch but murder to play against. As a doubles team...well you can imagine.

But there is a vast chasm between the classic serve and volley game and the modern serve and volley game. The current modern game is factored with so many engineered variables which currently make serve and volley a long shot. Since tennis is a game made up of "percentage" play...it is almost foolhardy to believe that under the current conditions it can be carried out on a continuous basis. Ironically...it was the engineering in the first place that was the inspiration of "shock and awe" serve and volleying ala Edberg and Becker. Anybody that could walk and chew gum became an instant volley machine. The wooden racquet classic game was a bit more cat and mouse. Subtle.

Such is the case at the moment...but things can change very quickly. I love the articles. You have to wonder though...just how is that such a fundamental aspect of the sport was allowed to engineered out of the game as obsolete. You really must be careful Kyle...you don't want to classified as a "nostalgist" on the "Planet of Tennis". It's the kiss of death in the accreditation circles.

That being said...what goes 'round comes 'round. Serve and volley just may be coming 'round again. It isn't going to be easy or smooth...afterall it is largely a mental thing as well.

Great post don_budge. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for your insights.
I'm certainly not labeled as a "nostalgist" in any tennis circles that exist. I'm well aware of the modern game and what that entails to the teachings of my students. But I am labeled, fair or not, as an accomplished, hard working teaching professional that has a great deal of respect for where the sport came from and where the sport is going. I guess I can live with that. Serve and volley can make a comeback. It will take one coach or many coaches to teach their students a new wrinkle. If coaches today are teaching their young students the game of today, you have to wonder where the students will be in the future. Tennis is always evolving and sometimes what is old suddenly becomes new again.

Watching McEnroe play is something really special. The artistry, mentality and shot making are things that shouldn't be forgotten by those lucky enough to watch him.

To be great at serve and volley, you need to have the mentality. It has to be a prerequisite before you even begin to attempt this in matches. Without this understanding, your setting yourself up for disappointment when you get passed.

Funny you mention Craig Wittus. Craig is a great colleague and dear friend of mine in Boca Raton. I see him often as our tennis teams compete against each other. Tennis is a small world.

Craig Wittus, Aaron Krickstein and myself are the 3 Michigan Amigos in Boca Raton.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

I predict the uni grip topspin groudstroke, will be used as a volley grip, to hit everything out of the air as a swinging topspin volley. The uni grip does not change sides of the racquet, nor flip it over, nor change the grip from bh to fh.

[xradtpb]

Every Other Level But Theirs

A great point that you infer is that at almost all levels of tennis players can win with a good net game.

Discussing how Federer or Nadal et al might improve with these tactics is a far cry from how the other 20 million players might benefit -- and as you say, actually, they all could.

Thanks for another great piece.

[xradtpb]

Tell Me If I am Right

Seems to me that back in the day a "McEnroe" could volley just with his skill. Watching videos, his arm position is everywhere and his execution is some wrist, some elbow, some shoulder.

I think -- tell me if I am wrong -- that with today's monster groundstrokes and crazy power that, on the highest levels, no matter how athletically gifted you are your forearm position, elbow angle, and striking motion are going to have to be perfect --actually, prototyped and explained by Brian Gordon and Rick Macci, no? And everyone will have to execute in the ideal way--or fail.

What do you think?

[GeoffWilliams]

There is so much more variety in volleying than ground strokes. The best volleyer of all time, Edberg, came in with the lowest, 90 degree knee bend of all time. That's not coincidental. He also used the kick/twist serve, which gave him more time to get into the net. Not a coincidence. Ankle/half/drive/touch/high/bh/fh/drop/cc/dtl/deep/fake drive/fake touch/fake drops/ all take a lot of time and a lot of practice to master off both sides, as does the mental ability to ignore good passing shots, and celebrate winners!

The only way to master these shots is to practice against real time/ real passing shot attempts, not fed easy shots. Thousands of hours are required for each shot. The overhead is just as important, to discourage lobbing.

No one perfects this game, at any level. All you can hope for is a percentage of winning points, a set up game that plays to win most points, to intimidate, to cover well, to put away sitters, to make the shots move low and away at all times, to avoid sitters that they can destroy, to place most volleys dtl, and approach dtl (15% less time to pass, 15% more ground for you to cover if you first volley and first approach cc.) Talk to Roddick and Fed about those figures.

[klacr]

Seems to me that back in the day a "McEnroe" could volley just with his skill. Watching videos, his arm position is everywhere and his execution is some wrist, some elbow, some shoulder.

I think -- tell me if I am wrong -- that with today's monster groundstrokes and crazy power that, on the highest levels, no matter how athletically gifted you are your forearm position, elbow angle, and striking motion are going to have to be perfect --actually, prototyped and explained by Brian Gordon and Rick Macci, no? And everyone will have to execute in the ideal way--or fail.

What do you think?

xradtpb,
interesting question.

Will there ever be another McEnroe when it comes to ball control and hands? Probably not. Some have mentioned Marcelo Rios as a player that reminded them as having that type of feel.

The technical checkpoints for volleys are all very similar across the board for the top players. Not a huge amount of variance. Check out the "Volley Melody" clip in the music video section of this site. Go for the volleys, but stay for the song choice.

With the power and spin of groundstrokes today, it certainly allows less margin for the volley to execute improvisational magic wand wizardry that may have been witnessed in previous eras. A solid foundation and strong hitting arm structure "Open U shape" as John Yandell suggests, is required. Volley firmness can be controlled with grip pressure. Important for students to experiement with grip pressure to develop the kinesthetic feel for ball control. Volleys certainly don't have as much technical variation or idiosynchrasies as groundstrokes. However, the options as to what you can do with the volleys can be greater due to your location in the court. There are certainly higher percentage shots and certain rules to follow in given situations but when you are at net, the world is your oyster.

Geoff is correct when he mentions Edberg's split step, or the idea that serve and volley is about winning the majority or points, applying pressure. You will lose points as a serve and volley player. if you are a perfectionist and hoping for golden sets, serve and volley may give you an aneurysm. Just a matter of time before you get passed. It's the tenacity and percentages, the intimidation and angles that allow you to be the victor.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[julian1]

Ao thread

xradtpb,
interesting question.

Will there ever be another McEnroe when it comes to ball control and hands? Probably not. Some have mentioned Marcelo Rios as a player that reminded them as having that type of feel.

The technical checkpoints for volleys are all very similar across the board for the top players. Not a huge amount of variance. Check out the "Volley Melody" clip in the music video section of this site. Go for the volleys, but stay for the song choice.

With the power and spin of groundstrokes today, it certainly allows less margin for the volley to execute improvisational magic wand wizardry that may have been witnessed in previous eras. A solid foundation and strong hitting arm structure "Open U shape" as John Yandell suggests, is required. Volley firmness can be controlled with grip pressure. Important for students to experiement with grip pressure to develop the kinesthetic feel for ball control. Volleys certainly don't have as much technical variation or idiosynchrasies as groundstrokes. However, the options as to what you can do with the volleys can be greater due to your location in the court. There are certainly higher percentage shots and certain rules to follow in given situations but when you are at net, the world is your oyster.

Geoff is correct when he mentions Edberg's split step, or the idea that serve and volley is about winning the majority or points, applying pressure. You will lose points as a serve and volley player. if you are a perfectionist and hoping for golden sets, serve and volley may give you an aneurysm. Just a matter of time before you get passed. It's the tenacity and percentages, the intimidation and angles that allow you to be the victor.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

I responded to your post in the ao thread

[klacr]

I had a brief chat yesterday with the coach of a current ATP Tour player (Top 15) who I've met several times before. Conversation landed on topic of serve and volley. He said that it will start to comeback, although not as widespread, he does expect more in the future. Including from his own player.
I asked him about what it will take to get more players to serve and volley, he said "not easy, but practice, lots of practice" and with that practice will come "confidence".
The coach said "Against great defenders like Nadal and Djokovic, it may be the only way to consistently beat them. Take it to them and keep the points quick. Take away their fitness and running abilities, prevent them from getting rhythm." The big problem he mentions is that the top players have the ego that they can beat the top players with their own game, which happens to be a rough and unrefined version of the games of the top players they are attempting to beat. Not going to work. He said it will only take one player to implement and have success with the serve and volley until more players catch on and try to wide the wave. He said floodgates will open when one player serve and volleying can beat a top guys a few times in a row, if that ever happens.

He ended the conversation by saying that there is definitely a time and place for the serve and volley and is extremely effective when used at appropriate times throughout the course of a match. For it to be used every time by a top player is going to take "a player with confidence, brains and big balls".


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton