A new teaching system: the toss

[gzhpcu]

Hi John,
What are your thoughts on this: http://www.patrafterserve.com/fe/464...t-toss?page=17

Rafter says he always had a problem with the circular toss, and modified it to a straight down/straight up motion. He advocates this for club players as well. What do you think best for club players?

[johnyandell]

I think it depends on the ball position you want. If you want it at all to your left or inside the hitting hand the straight arm toss is gonna be tougher. But from what I saw of that instructional stuff (couldn't stand much) what Rafter says and what he does--as with a lot of elite players--isn't the same.

[gzhpcu]

That is true. Rafter speaks of "carving around the ball" for a slice serve, which is certainly not the case...

[DougEng]

Hi John,
What are your thoughts on this: http://www.patrafterserve.com/fe/464...t-toss?page=17

Rafter says he always had a problem with the circular toss, and modified it to a straight down/straight up motion. He advocates this for club players as well. What do you think best for club players?

I can't officially comment on Pat's serve since I am required to use his system for some analysis. But on a personal note, however, I would rarely suggest to use the straight toss and only in cases where everything else fails. Feel free to send a message privately.

Among other myths, the toss is rarely consistent as many people claim. I do have significant quantitative data (WTA/ATP) but presently is unpublished.

Doug Eng

[stroke]

That is true. Rafter speaks of "carving around the ball" for a slice serve, which is certainly not the case...

That is certainly not what Rafter does on his serve. He basicly pronates on contact, "checks his watch" as a poster on TW once said, like all very good servers. On his slice serve, he just checks his watch on contact with the right side of ball, no carving going on there.

[johnyandell]

I don't know when Rafter claimed to change his toss motion to straight up and down, but it wasn't during his ATP career...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/patrafter/pr_serve/pr_arm_action/pr_arm_action.html?PR1stSDeuceArmActionCourtLevelSide2.mov

Slightly less circular than most but definitely not straight up and down.

That Rafter serve series probably has done more harm than good to naive players who took it (and the internet guru who made it) seriously.

[johnyandell]

PS: does this look like carving?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/patrafter/pr_serve/pr_1st_serve/pr_1st_serve.html?PR1stSAdFront1.mov

Ditto on the counterproductive influence of this product...