What's Wrong with American Men Part 1

[johnyandell]

Tim,

That is a very perceptive post. To say the least your perspective is unusual among former elite players because of your willingness or I would say also passion to really understand what is happening and your concern to try to evolve terminology and coaching approaches.

The academic guys know a lot and have created a lot. But I agree we need a bridge and a language that allows us all to move forward, share information, and have honest discussion based on evidence rather than personal opinion.

John

[GeoffWilliams]

Nadal said, "I play more aggressive. That's a mental thing." Everything is a mental thing in this game. Go for too much and it's mental. Push and defend too much and it's mental. Go into a zone like Rosol or Delpo did and that's mental. If I could bottle the zone I would. Anyone want to buy a bottle of zone?

[don_budge]

What's wrong with American men...Part 2

Can we start with the President and work backwards to American males in general? Women included. That way we could launch into a discussion about leadership and culture..and what is lacking in society in general. From here I am pretty certain we can deduct what happened to American tennis. It is all connected. Like the three dots...are.

Don't get me wrong...Tim...fascinating discussion. I think. I guess. But did you see the President of the United States of American on CNN today. I did. It was the most astounding thing I think that I have ever witnessed in my life coming from the leader of the greatest nation ever...so they say. But he said that he had made a decision...and the decision was to launch a "narrow" strike on the country of Syria. But he clarified himself and seeing that he is reputedly a constitutional lawyer one of his old professors probably called him up and reminded him that even though he is the POTUS he still is subject to the law of the land.

President.Oblabla said that he had made another poignant (my word) decision. He said that he was going to ask for the permission of the Congress and the House first. Which of course he is legally required to do. I guess in a way he is showing off a bit...afterall he is the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize and it wouldn't look very good to just go in and start shooting. Especially since it is against international law.

But if we could just rectify our wayward politicians and get them pointed in the right direction perhaps we could also take some of that seemingly bottomless war chest and designate some of the hard earned tax dollars to something that is actually beneficial to the American People. I just love it when a politician uses that phrase...The American People. It the cue that they are going to take it up the back side just one more time.

At some point we might swerve down into Bradenton, Florida where the whole thing took a turn for the cliff. So now the American man is typically in free fall mode. Unfortunately we are not just talking about tennis. Or are we? I think too...that service motions and good service tactics in general have been in decline for the past 15 or 20 years.

[stotty]

Tim Mayotte...and serve & volley

I think Tim's posts so far have been interesting and generous. It's not often we get a former top player contributing on the forum. Most top players are aloof and wouldn't dream of posting on a forum. His posts are eloquent and knowledgeable and it's great to have to insights of someone like him.

Tim's addressing the right place if he wants to make an impact. Tennisplayer is a world-class website with an enthusiastic group of followers. It's a paradise for coaches. Keep posting, Tim.

And, Tim, if you check in again and are reading this post:

What happened to the net game? Is serve and volley dead forever? Is it really so difficult to volley against the baseliners of today that it can no longer be done as a game style, other than occasionally?

[tsmayotte]

Today's results at Open

The results at the Open I hope will convince more coaches about what I am driving at. Sock and Isner, as well as Querry and Harrison, have inferior trading and neutralizing backhands. Those technical inefficiencies lead to a whole set of tactical and mental issues. (take it from someone who struggled technically on some strokes. At 4-4 all in the 5th in the quarter's at Wimby you better trust your technique!) Sock's backhand was difficult to watch today. These strokes can be improved. Plain and simple. I would love the chance and have asked Jay Berger for the chance to work with Harrison.

I am very well aware of the need for mental toughness but with the kind of poor shot quality and the related poor movement I saw today, mental toughness is not enough. I would turn it around and argue that Sock and Harrison are tremendously mentally tough to do so well given the holes in their games.

With all due respect to Nadal, he is wrong that everything is mental. He says that out of the luxury of being able to generate more racquet speed off the ground than anyone in the history of tennis, move with balance etc. I saw a video of him from a few years ago getting instruction to improve his serve. Without that technical help he would not be holding serve as easily and getting free points off his serve like he does now. He is mentally strong in part because he can take information, practice it and integrate it.

Mental strength is critical but without good technique, either self taught or learned from a coach, one will not reach the heights.
Thanks for the posts
Tim

[jasonfrausto]

The results at the Open I hope will convince more coaches about what I am driving at. Sock and Isner, as well as Querry and Harrison, have inferior trading and neutralizing backhands. Those technical inefficiencies lead to a whole set of tactical and mental issues. (take it from someone who struggled technically on some strokes. At 4-4 all in the 5th in the quarter's at Wimby you better trust your technique!) Sock's backhand was difficult to watch today. These strokes can be improved. Plain and simple. I would love the chance and have asked Jay Berger for the chance to work with Harrison.

I am very well aware of the need for mental toughness but with the kind of poor shot quality and the related poor movement I saw today, mental toughness is not enough. I would turn it around and argue that Sock and Harrison are tremendously mentally tough to do so well given the holes in their games.

With all due respect to Nadal, he is wrong that everything is mental. He says that out of the luxury of being able to generate more racquet speed off the ground than anyone in the history of tennis, move with balance etc. I saw a video of him from a few years ago getting instruction to improve his serve. Without that technical help he would not be holding serve as easily and getting free points off his serve like he does now. He is mentally strong in part because he can take information, practice it and integrate it.

Mental strength is critical but without good technique, either self taught or learned from a coach, one will not reach the heights.
Thanks for the posts
Tim

Tim,

Correct. Nadal tinkers with his strokes regularly. In recent years he changed his forehand technique multiple times as well as his backhand and serve. 3 of the most critical strokes in the game. The technique of the top players is not purely coincidental in most respects.

Jason Frausto

[sfrazeur]

Tim,

Correct. Nadal tinkers with his strokes regularly. In recent years he changed his forehand technique multiple times as well as his backhand and serve. 3 of the most critical strokes in the game. The technique of the top players is not purely coincidental in most respects.

Jason Frausto

Care to elaborate?

[jasonfrausto]

Care to elaborate?

I'll have a video link for you within 20 minutes. Hang tight.

[jasonfrausto]

Care to elaborate?

I used a video I shot in Cincy of Nadal 2 weeks ago on the right and Tennisplayer footage from a few years ago on the left. The video is unlisted and can only be seen with the link provided below.

Commentary is very sloppy as I just put this together quickly for you. Ignore that and look at the technical changes Rafa continues to make. Ignore my ums!

John,

If you want this link to vanish please let me know as your footage is part of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cnAOX4-H8

[GeoffWilliams]

The results at the Open I hope will convince more coaches about what I am driving at. Sock and Isner, as well as Querry and Harrison, have inferior trading and neutralizing backhands. Those technical inefficiencies lead to a whole set of tactical and mental issues. (take it from someone who struggled technically on some strokes. At 4-4 all in the 5th in the quarter's at Wimby you better trust your technique!) Sock's backhand was difficult to watch today. These strokes can be improved. Plain and simple. I would love the chance and have asked Jay Berger for the chance to work with Harrison.

I am very well aware of the need for mental toughness but with the kind of poor shot quality and the related poor movement I saw today, mental toughness is not enough. I would turn it around and argue that Sock and Harrison are tremendously mentally tough to do so well given the holes in their games.


Left
With all due respect to Nadal, he is wrong that everything is mental. He says that out of the luxury of being able to generate more racquet speed off the ground than anyone in the history of tennis, move with balance etc. I saw a video of him from a few years ago getting instruction to improve his serve. Without that technical help he would not be holding serve as easily and getting free points off his serve like he does now. He is mentally strong in part because he can take information, practice it and integrate it.

Mental strength is critical but without good technique, either self taught or learned from a coach, one will not reach the heights.
Thanks for the posts
Tim

You left Sam Querrey out of the back hand list. Sorry shot.

[stotty]

I used a video I shot in Cincy of Nadal 2 weeks ago on the right and Tennisplayer footage from a few years ago on the left. The video is unlisted and can only be seen with the link provided below.

Commentary is very sloppy as I just put this together quickly for you. Ignore that and look at the technical changes Rafa continues to make. Ignore my ums!

John,

If you want this link to vanish please let me know as your footage is part of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cnAOX4-H8

Great video, great walk thru. Thanks for posting this. Something has certainly changed in Rafa's forehand for the better because he's hitting it better than ever before. Strange he has the racket tilling forwards like that for so long in the preparation. I suppose this is a result of trying to get the elbow more away from the body.

[don_budge]

Brilliant discussion guys...

I realize the importance of the topic that relates to American Men as related to competitive tennis. I am certain that everyone will agree that politics is unrelated to this topic. But on the other hand...just a little food for thought. You know...regarding American Men. This is soon going to be the subject of conversation that will dwarf all other subjects...not that tennis is not important when it comes up to discussing American Men.

But let me present to you...the decision making process of the President of the United States of America. The constitutional lawyer who sees himself above the law. Well...Bush and Clinton thought they were too. What a dangerous precedent this is for presidents...it could just render all of our tennis discussions mute.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/08/31/obama-reveals-his-dictatorship-paul-craig-roberts/

Read it and weep.

[don_budge]

Nice work...technically speaking!

Great video, great walk thru. Thanks for posting this. Something has certainly changed in Rafa's forehand for the better because he's hitting it better than ever before. Strange he has the racket tilling forwards like that for so long in the preparation. I suppose this is a result of trying to get the elbow more away from the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cnAOX4-H8

Really nice job jasonfrausto! Care to elaborate on the process a bit for those of us that are less technically inclined? Thanks.

[jasonfrausto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cnAOX4-H8

Really nice job jasonfrausto! Care to elaborate on the process a bit for those of us that are less technically inclined? Thanks.

Tim,

My apologies, no intention of taking over the thread. Your original points of the importance of technique certainly apply to all players.

Don,

No problem. I will make this as non technical as possible.

1) I took 1 of the Nadal clips from tennis player and converted it to an AVI file with Quicktime. (Tennisplayer clips have to be converted to work in video analysis programs).

2) I took one of the files I shot in Cincy (240FPS/1080p) and to better match the speed of the Tennisplayer file I slowed it down to half speed. The Tennisplayer file was shot at 500FPS, my file at 240FPS. So I figured if I slowed it down by half I would be near 480FPS (in theory) and then my file would better match the Tennisplayer one.

3) I then took both the Nadal clip and the Tennisplayer one and ran them through MotionView analysis software adding the lines for drawing and the voiceover work.

4) Once I had all that done I slapped on the video intro for my site as well as my watermark.

5) I uploaded it to my YouTube channel as a private link for the forum to look at.


Hope that makes sense. After doing it for 8 years I could do it in my sleep (sadly . Thanks to Tennisplayer for the great clips here which helped make the comparison possible.

[GeoffWilliams]

Nice job. INteresting observations which show you are a cut above the pack.