What's Wrong with American Men Part 1

[stroke]

Great video, great walk thru. Thanks for posting this. Something has certainly changed in Rafa's forehand for the better because he's hitting it better than ever before. Strange he has the racket tilling forwards like that for so long in the preparation. I suppose this is a result of trying to get the elbow more away from the body.

I think he has more of the palm down(more supination) in the new preparation, as Brian Gordon references in his articles in the Type 3 forehand. That would in theory lead to a more violent flip.

[stotty]

I think he has more of the palm down(more supination) in the new preparation, as Brian Gordon references in his articles in the Type 3 forehand. That would in theory lead to a more violent flip.

It's hard to know if his flip is improved because at the critical point things look the same. What's interesting is what Jason refers to as the slingshot effect created by the tip pointing forward (I think this is what he means). Nadal himself say he is hitting bigger because he is more confident. But confidence comes from better technique creating a more reliable stroke, doesn't it?

The change in preparation deviates away from Brian Gordon's model of the ATP forehand, which is interesting. It would be interesting know what John and 10splayer think about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cnAOX4-H8

[stroke]

It's hard to know if his flip is improved because at the critical point things look the same. What's interesting is what Jason refers to as the slingshot effect created by the tip pointing forward (I think this is what he means). Nadal himself say he is hitting bigger because he is more confident. But confidence comes from better technique creating a more reliable stroke, doesn't it?

The change in preparation deviates away from Brian Gordon's model of the ATP forehand, which is interesting. It would be interesting know what John and 10splayer think about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cnAOX4-H8

I too would be very interested in what 10splayer, John, or Brian thought about this more violent flip concept, I am just throwing a thought out there. By the way, I feel the more palm down, supinated forehand preparation is in line with Brian's thoughts on the type 3 forehand.

[jasonfrausto]

Nice job. INteresting observations which show you are a cut above the pack.

Thanks, the subject is interesting and it falls in line with Nadal always trying to improve his game in any fashion possible. I'm bowing out of the thread, my video piece on this will launch with my site in a few weeks about the SSC forehand. (which will not include Tennisplayer footage, but all the video I shot in Cincy)

[10splayer]

Great video, great walk thru. Thanks for posting this. Something has certainly changed in Rafa's forehand for the better because he's hitting it better than ever before. Strange he has the racket tilling forwards like that for so long in the preparation. I suppose this is a result of trying to get the elbow more away from the body.

Yes, nadal always had a funky backswing. In fact, if you look at sharapova, for instance, they look remarkably similar at the beginning. Elbow in and tucked, racquet shaft standing straight up, and arm beginning to externally rotate. Normally this is a recipe for disaster (if you subscribe to a type 3) as it sets the table for an inside backswing. (externally rotated arm) Rafa recovers well after the hands separate by starting to pronate which allows him to find an acceptable position (internally rotated arm) at the moment of the pull.

And yes LC, the more the elbow leads back (and is elevated) the more the racquet is going to stay in front of your chest. The new backswing is much cleaner. (look at the height and movement of the elbow) It would appear to move in a more direct line backwards and stays at a constant level.
Good analysis by j.f.
My 02 cents.

[stroke]

Yes, nadal always had a funky backswing. In fact, if you look at sharapova, for instance, they look remarkably similar at the beginning. Elbow in and tucked, racquet shaft standing straight up, and arm beginning to externally rotate. Normally this is a recipe for disaster (if you subscribe to a type 3) as it sets the table for an inside backswing. (externally rotated arm) Rafa recovers well after the hands separate by starting to pronate which allows him to find an acceptable position (internally rotated arm) at the moment of the pull.

And yes LC, the more the elbow leads back (and is elevated) the more the racquet is going to stay in front of your chest. The new backswing is much cleaner. (look at the height and movement of the elbow) It would appear to move in a more direct line backwards and stays at a constant level.
Good analysis by j.f.
My 02 cents.

I do agree that Nadal has a kind of funky, or possibly complicated preparation on the forehand. I really like the simplicity of Del Potro's preparation on the forehand. He simply extends his arm to the outside behind the flight of the ball. The elbow is really away from the body, and the elbow really has a short path from preparation to contact.

[stotty]

I guess Del Potro forehand is as good as any, and it is certainly dead simple. I just find Federer's so much more versatile.

It's interesting this racket tip pointing forward stuff. Some players point it forwards for quite a long time during the backswing. I have in the past had students who have done this but under duress they can struggle to get the racket to lay passively back in time for the incoming ball. Yet some tour players seem to do it and get into the slot quite easily. I guess it has a lot has to do with early preparation and having the knack.

I really like the way Federer can prepare so well for even the quickest incoming ball.

[stroke]

Agreed that Fed's is prototype for Brian's type 3 forehand. Fed and Delpo look very similar at contact, both way out in front with a straight arm. The main difference to me is Delpo just nearly straightens his arm out in the preparation phase earlier. Fed prepares with bent arm and then straightens, as Brian and Rick teach in the type 3. Delpo seems to just kind of bypass that 1st step in the preparation.

[tennis_chiro]

Is there a Tennisplayer reader in Nadal camp?

So, looking at Jason's video, could there be a Tennisplayer subscriber in the Nadal camp? Or is BG doing a little work with them? We seem to be in general agreement that Nadal came back from a 7 month layoff hitting the ball better, and he is getting better still. Could it be that Uncle Tony is actually an Internet troller and he found the BG work? Or is there possibly a more direct connection? It really looks like Rafa is adopting exactly the recommendations that Brian Gordon and Rick Macci are making!

don

[stroke]

So, looking at Jason's video, could there be a Tennisplayer subscriber in the Nadal camp? Or is BG doing a little work with them? We seem to be in general agreement that Nadal came back from a 7 month layoff hitting the ball better, and he is getting better still. Could it be that Uncle Tony is actually an Internet troller and he found the BG work? Or is there possibly a more direct connection? It really looks like Rafa is adopting exactly the recommendations that Brian Gordon and Rick Macci are making!

don

I think Jason kind of nailed it when he mentioned Nadal may be getting more of the slingshot effect(or flip, using Brian's terminology). I think this is a direct result of the more palm down, higher elbow, supinated preparation Nadal has gone to. Fed has the most pronounced slingshot effect, or flip,, a result of his grip structure, straight arm, extremely supinated preparation. As Brian said, he does it like a master.

[stotty]

I think the way Nadal initiates the backswing in the early phase deviates a little from BG's model as demonstrated by Rick Macci in the ATP Forehand video.

The racket tip in the Macci video is more vertical as it is taken back, and the strings face the side fence as the elbow is lifted.

With Nadal's forehand the racket tip is pointing more forwards and nowhere near as vertical as it passes his shoulder is prescribed in Macci's video...and, indeed as it was in Nadal's old forehand. The rackets strings do face the side fence, however, and the elbow position looks much improved. This leads me to think having a more vertical racket tip is less important than I thought.

Another thing that looks better in Nadal's new forehand is his right arm stretch. The arm is less bent and the spacing looks better for it....the old one looks a tiny bit tight.

The most amazing thing about all this is that Nadal's made these changes to his shape and swing path at this point in his career. You wouldn't have thought that possible for a 27 year-old play who's right in the thick of his career.

The Nadal family resembles a mafia family. You cannot fathom what really goes on inside that family, and it's likely you'll never find out either. What really went on during that seven months and the reasons will likely remain a mystery.

[GeoffWilliams]

Talk to the spanish doctor who is giving out peds to the futbol players.