Did I find a two hander after 15 years?

[jasonfrausto]

To make a long story short in the late 90's I played college tennis. I had very conservative grips, I hit a continental forehand and continental/eastern two handed backhand. I was fortunate enough to play against very good foreign players who hit with heavy spin and killed me with consistency and looping heavy balls.

Slowly but surely my forehand drifted over to what is currently a solid eastern forehand grip, but in the process I felt like I lost my two hander. Eventually, I gave up on the two and settled on hitting a one handed backhand, which has been a liability to this day. So I entered college with a solid two and ended up leaving with a weak one hander.

Until today. 15 years later, literally at the age of 36 I decided to give it one more shot on film with the Casio. While I don't feel like it is completely right I do feel as though there is evidence of an SSC and some other good technical fundamentals. I've attached a video filmed at 240FPS with pro players (Fish and Murray) below me for comparison.

If you see anything that you think needs tweaking or improvement please let me know as I feel as though it might now once again be a stroke I can use in tournament and matchplay without fear of it completely breaking down. I have a prize money tournament I play yearly that takes place next weekend and I'm hoping to play solidly with the two hander. All feedback is appreciated.

Thanks to John for the great footage which is an incredible learning tool.

15 years!!!

Footage below. Indoors today because it was 55 degrees outside.

Is it ready for matchplay?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlH05cQ1Pc4

[klacr]

Jason,

Congrats on finding your two handed backhand again. Sad that the one hander is gone but if you are happy with the two hander than more power to ya!

Video looks ok but before I critique all segments I'd love to see it in regular speed as well just so I get a sense of the whole ball of wax.

The 240fps is fine but I've never seen your two hander in regular speed so its tough for me to get a greater sense of what we are dealing with. Seeing 240fps as the first impression is like listening to The Police in the early days before Gordon Sumner learned how to simultaneously play an instrument and sing. Let's face it, before that the early songs were a bit disjointed and suspended. Still great songs but you get what I'm saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk4WRhPQuyo

I saw a few things in the video but would love to clarify by seeing real speed as well.

Now Let me ask the question we all want to know...55 Degrees in July? You must really like Wisconsin huh? I don't miss Michigan at all...

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton (92 degrees and breezy)

[jasonfrausto]

Jason,

Congrats on finding your two handed backhand again. Sad that the one hander is gone but if you are happy with the two hander than more power to ya!

Video looks ok but before I critique all segments I'd love to see it in regular speed as well just so I get a sense of the whole ball of wax.

The 240fps is fine but I've never seen your two hander in regular speed so its tough for me to get a greater sense of what we are dealing with. Seeing 240fps as the first impression is like listening to The Police in the early days before Gordon Sumner learned how to simultaneously play an instrument and sing. Let's face it, before that the early songs were a bit disjointed and suspended. Still great songs but you get what I'm saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk4WRhPQuyo

I saw a few things in the video but would love to clarify by seeing real speed as well.

Now Let me ask the question we all want to know...55 Degrees in July? You must really like Wisconsin huh? I don't miss Michigan at all...

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton (92 degrees and breezy)

I envy your 92 degrees, maybe I should escape Wisconsin? Can't remember the last time it was 55 near the end of July, but here it is

I'll get a chance in a few weeks to shoot again, and I'll definitely put up some full speed videos. I'm sad over the loss of the one hander, but it has been such a liability for me on my return game and against deep heavy balls. I really hope I can hit a quality heavy/ralley ball with the two hander for next weekend.

I'll revive the thread with new footage at regular speed in a few weeks.

Jason Frausto

[seano10s]

2 Handed BH

Jason -

Comparing your backhand to the model that Rick Macci wants, your BH compares very favorably. In your set-up you:
1) Have your right arm straight, left arm bent
2) You wait w/ your arms and racquet all the way back
3) your racquet head is above your wrists
4) racquet is to the outside

from there he wants you to pull the racquet forward w/ your right hand. Just like you would pull the racquet forward on a forehand after you "pat the dog". On your BH, you have the "flip" where your racquet head goes down and back before it moves forward. Which it is supposed to. I'd like your right arm to move further away from your body in the forward swing but it looks like a nice backhand. Only you can answer is it ready for competition. What is your level of confidence in it? Good Luck.

[lobndropshot]

Is it a mistake to wait for it to be ready for a match? I say jump in and put it in those weird spots and see how it goes.

[tennis_chiro]

Check your finish vs Murray

Jason,
Looks pretty good to me. I would try to get you to stay on the ball a little longer by trying to keep the racket parallel to the net a little longer. I would be trying to get you to get the momentum of the swing a little more on the path of the ball. But I'm a little bit of a nut about that. You have to sacrifice a little of that to get the greater topspin. But I would make you hit a few easy inside out down the line backhands to get the feel of going through the ball and try to take that over to the crosscourt.

But what I do see that is important is that you don't really get all the way to the right side on your finish. Compare what Murray is doing. You can actually get a lot more on the ball if you really finish all the way on the right side. Then you can also drive a little more with the left side. If I see that left foot moving back to the right instead of driving through, I don't think you used all the available power of the left side to drive through the ball. Obviously, Fish (who has a great two-hander) is doing almost the same thing, but not quite. I would make you hit easy balls trying to recreate the footwork you use to pound easy forehands so that you get the same lower body in your two-hander that you get in your forehand.

don

[don_budge]

Use the one hand and stick with Wisconsin...

Congrats on finding your two handed backhand again. Sad that the one hander is gone but if you are happy with the two hander than more power to ya!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk4WRhPQuyo

Now Let me ask the question we all want to know...55 Degrees in July? You must really like Wisconsin huh? I don't miss Michigan at all...

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton (92 degrees and breezy)

I envy your 92 degrees, maybe I should escape Wisconsin? Can't remember the last time it was 55 near the end of July, but here it is

Jason Frausto

Stick with the one handed...even though I haven't seen it. The two handed that you are sporting looks to be just a little tentative...which will not serve you well in competition. Fish and Murray are much more committed to their weight being on and over the right foot. In the shot above Murray's it almost appears that you are reverse pivoting (golfspeak). Sacrifice a little power for more control. Return serve intelligently...remember you don't have to win the point on the return. Just neutralize for the first couple of strokes off of the serve and try to gain the advantage. Play the score.

Great presentation jasonfausto...do us a big favor. Post that one handed backhand, slice and drive. Why not treat us to the serve and forehand too? Toss in a couple of volleys and approaches to the net. Let's see the whole enchilada.

But I must say that the weather discussion is an intriguing one. 55 degrees vs. 92 degrees. I will take 55 all summer long...spare me that yucky sweaty feeling. I prefer to wear a long sleeve shirt and still not perspire. But that is perhaps nine years of living in Sweden speaking for me. And the fifty that I spent in Michigan.

We have had a very hot spell here during this summer with the temperature ranging from 20-25 celsius (68-77 fahrenheit). The amazing thing is how hot it seems. 68-77 would have seemed to be breezy and cool in Michigan. But now it feels like a hot day on a Hawaiian beach. 55 degrees? The kids are out in t-shirts here. Little Vikings.

As for winter...that is why God invented indoor tennis.

[stotty]

Nice backhand...let's see more.

I'm on the same page as Klacr. Better to see the backhand filmed at normal speed. Even better would be to see it at normal speed in a rally...better still, points. Even my backhand looks lovely if I get to hit it without having to move or take just one step.

Upload it warts and all...that's what I say.

[don_budge]

Good Advice...

Jason,
Looks pretty good to me. I would try to get you to stay on the ball a little longer by trying to keep the racket parallel to the net a little longer. I would be trying to get you to get the momentum of the swing a little more on the path of the ball. But I'm a little bit of a nut about that. You have to sacrifice a little of that to get the greater topspin. But I would make you hit a few easy inside out down the line backhands to get the feel of going through the ball and try to take that over to the crosscourt.

But what I do see that is important is that you don't really get all the way to the right side on your finish. Compare what Murray is doing. You can actually get a lot more on the ball if you really finish all the way on the right side. Then you can also drive a little more with the left side. If I see that left foot moving back to the right instead of driving through, I don't think you used all the available power of the left side to drive through the ball. Obviously, Fish (who has a great two-hander) is doing almost the same thing, but not quite. I would make you hit easy balls trying to recreate the footwork you use to pound easy forehands so that you get the same lower body in your two-hander that you get in your forehand.

don

It is a left handed forehand...isn't it?

[klacr]

I envy your 92 degrees, maybe I should escape Wisconsin? Can't remember the last time it was 55 near the end of July, but here it is

I'll get a chance in a few weeks to shoot again, and I'll definitely put up some full speed videos. I'm sad over the loss of the one hander, but it has been such a liability for me on my return game and against deep heavy balls. I really hope I can hit a quality heavy/ralley ball with the two hander for next weekend.

I'll revive the thread with new footage at regular speed in a few weeks.

Jason Frausto

No worries Jason,

I'll help with what I see for now...

Overall, backhand looks nice but I'd like to see a bit wider of a base. Feet are a bit too close together. I'd love for you to widen the base, even if its just a few inches.

Also, along the lines of what tennis chiro is saying, I'd love to see you stay with and even extend to the ball a little bit. Don't be in such a rush to follow through across the ball, just keep racquet on left side and let it happen naturally.

I'd love to see your natural and normal racquet head speed though. I'm more than happy waiting to see the full speed swing.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bobbyswift]

backhand.

Your backhand looks amazing. If there are problems it will be more because of the bounce. Your ability to deal with high wide low balls at you will determine its success. Also your ability to return will be a huge factor. Also where you hold left hand when returning.

[jasonfrausto]

Everyone,

I appreciate the various responses, I got out for one more hit today doing crosscourts, service points, and up the middle hitting. I didn't seem to have quite the same magic today as I did yesterday so I brought out the one hander as well (tons of slicing). I'm in Cincy the next two weekends after the upcoming one so I probably won't get the chance to film again for quite a bit. When I do I'll definitely come back with clips of other strokes and revive the thread.

Thanks to everyone for feedback and improvement advice, hopefully if I can permanently find the two hander I can avoid getting pushed around on guys service games off my return. With the one hander I find myself chipping which allows them time to run around and hit heavy forehands frequently or floating weaker returns towards the middle of the court.

Jason