Using the resources of Tennis Player to Construct and improve one's game

[jryle1]

Hi guys,

I was talking to John and decided to get his permission to start this thread. Basically what I've decided to do is to use the resources of Tennis Player to completely improve my game and achieve the goals I would like to with my tennis. I have one of the Casio Hi-Speed cameras so I plan on posting video strokes of my strokes, maybe some points, etc. etc. and I plan to analyze and show what I think I need to do to improve my game and I'll use the teaching systems and information on this site in order to do so.

First of all, a bit of background.

My name is Jonathan Ryle. I'm a 20 year old Tennis Ireland Level 1 tennis coach in Ireland and I am starting the Tennis Ireland Level 2 in August (I believe these qualifications are the equivalent of ITF Level 1, 2, 3) just to give you guys an idea. At the moment I'm studying Business and Accounting full-time in University and I'm going into my final year in September. I also coach and play in my local club in Naas and am an avid tennis fan also.

I also enjoy the admin side of tennis having been the Tournament Director for my clubs open this summer which, compared to the tournaments in America is small but for Ireland it was one of the strongest tournaments in the country. It featured World No.273 Fabrice Martin who received a wild card into the French Open this year in doubles and lost first round to the Bryan Brothers 6-3, 6-4. He won the singles and doubles titles and beat Ireland's Colin O'Brien in the singles final. Colin had a career high ranking of 599 before getting injured and he's making his comeback to the tour. Fabrice partnered our No.1 doubles player James Cluskey who had has a career high ranking of ATP 180 and is currently around ATP 220 and is playing on the doubs challenger circuit. So overall it was a decent enough tournament and I was glad to play a role in it.

A lot of my best friends come from the tennis world so as sad as it is to say, tennis is my life and my biggest passion.

In terms of my own level of play, in Ireland we have Open tournaments and league is a relatively big thing. In the Dublin area and within a certain km range outside Dublin there are a couple of leagues. The main three are Summer League, Winter League and Floodlit League. Summer League is played during the months of May and June and clubs play each other in classes ranging from "Premier" to Class 7. Our club unfortunately lost in the final of Class 1 this year and didn't get promoted. There are 7 on a team and it's 3 singles, two doubles. 5 matches. Winter league is similar except it's Class 1 to Class 7 and it's played in January and February. There are 6 on a team, all 3 doubles. Our first team got relegated from the highest class this year. And finally Floodlit League is played in October/November and there's Class 1- Class 5. There are 4 on a team and you play two singles and one doubles but the names are put into a hat and drawn randomly on the night.

Anyway, I've probably given you too much information but I play generally on the 2nd team in my club which is in the Class 2/Class 3 bracket. Premier and Class 1 generally features a lot of guys who are on Division I scholarships to the states or who have some ATP points. Both Colin and James mentioned earlier played for their club in the Premier final of summer league this year. That's an idea of the standard but there's a big leap between Class 2/3 and Class 1. The better players in Class 2 are probably 4.5 players, depending on what class are club are in and Class 3 is like 3.5-4.0 players. In doubles I win a lot of matches in the Class 2/3 bracket. I played Class 3 Winter League and won 5/6 as our team lost in the Quarter-Finals.

I would say I'm a solid 4.0 player in Doubles but I struggle in Singles and my confidence levels aren't great. So I'd probably do ok at the 3.5 level I would imagine.

Anyway, a bit about my tennis. The biggest problem with my tennis in the past was diet and weight. As a child I didn't eat normal food. My parents tried to feed me baby food and I would spit it out. They brought me to doctors and hospitals and they told me I'd grow out of it. Up until January my diet was literally White Bread with butter, Chips (French Fries) and Corn Flakes. As a child I wouldn't even sit beside anyone eating Meat or Veg or Fruit and would get sick or gag if anyone tried to get me to taste it. As a result of my horrendous diet and nutrition I grew to a massive 20 stone 11 pounds, which is 291 pounds or 132 kg. Lucky for me, in December my uncle found a psychologist in London (I had tried two previously in Ireland but it didn't fix my problem) who has dealt with what I apparently had which was called "Selective Eating Disorder" (SED) and apparently I'm not the only one out there who has it. It was amazing. I went to see him in December and it worked! I'm now literally eating Chicken, Fruit, Vegetables, Fish, Meat. I can actually try it!

As a result I joined a CrossFit gym in Ireland in January and started on the "Paleo Diet" which you guys can read up on if you like outside. The Paleo Diet is basically Meat, Fruit, Veg, Nuts and Seeds, no Wheat or Gluten. As a result of this and the CrossFit training (What is CrossFit? http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/what-is-crossfit.html )

I am now down to 234 pounds, 106 kg or 16 stone 10 pounds and I feel so much better! That's all since the middle of January this year. A total weight loss of 26 Kg!

Anyway, in terms of my game, I play a pretty aggressive game and generally make a LOT of unforced errors. I have a single handed backhand, ok serve and my forehand is hit and miss, it can be a weapon or it can be my downfall. I'll discuss more about my game when I discuss individual strokes but this is just an introduction.

Anyway, if you're interested in following my "Path to Perfection" you're welcome along for the ride. I hope to update this thread with new developments on my game and will be making my first three posts tomorrow with videos of my forehand, my analysis of it, videos of my serve, my analysis of it and a match I played tonight on Red Clay in Spain. In Ireland we play on Artificial Grass. I'm currently in Marbella for 6.5 weeks playing tennis. Seeing as I don't get to play much at home because of university and coaching I came on holidays here to play. I come here every year so it's great.

Anyway, my first posts will be tomorrow and if you have any tips or advice on my posts or comments or suggestions just let me know.

Yours in tennis,

Jonathan.

[GeoffWilliams]

Try hypnosis for weight loss/diet control. Eat gruel only, no meat, sugary things: stop the white deaths: flour, sugar, salt, starch. Ask JY about my lull-jam-finish piece.

[jryle1]

Forehand has a Fever!

Well, I had a slight delay in writing up this first post about my first stroke that I need to drastically improve. My forehand.

Below I'll outline some of the problems I have with my forehand and then some of the positives about it.

The main problem I have with my forehand is spin and consistency. I'm able to generate decent enough power with it but sometimes when I'm playing better players I find I'm lacking the power. The biggest problem is spin. As shown in the pictures below my forehand grip is an old school eastern forehand grip. A lot of the guys in the club slag me about my "continental forehand" grip and at times it looks and feels like an extreme continental bordering on Eastern! This I believe is one of the problems in my not being able to consistently generate spin.

The Grip:








My forehand is a strange stroke. Sometimes I go out and I can't miss it, I hit with power, spin and can pretty much put it where I like and do anything with it. When I'm feeling like that on court, it's a big weapon for me, and generally if I hit my forehand that well I win. Most of the time I end up blasting it past the baseline, and into the back fence on occasion! I find that I miss-hit the ball a lot on this side and frame it a few of the times as well.

Ok, so not that I've given my views of the problem, after initial analysis I will give my verdict of what is wrong with it and will post the videos below it.

The first problem: Contact Point.

I'm too far away from the ball, my contact is late and I'm "arming" the ball. I believe because my contact point is too far away from my body that as a result I can't use my body to generate pace. The forehand is all arm pretty much. I think I have a decent unit turn, backswing seems to be alright, maybe a bit high but otherwise the preparation doesn't seem too bad but could possibly be a little slow.

This is the first problem I am going to attempt to rectify.

The second problem: Use of the legs!

My legs are very very lazy. I don't use them near enough and don't push off the ground or stay low enough initially. I really have to start using my lower body a lot more if I am to improve my forehand but the first stage is the contact point. Once I sort the contact point, I've ordered David Bailey's footwork course because I am a big fan of it and I plan to use it religiously to try and improve my footwork. It could really help. The AP Belt used in Bolletieri's by Pat Dougherty is also a tool that could help me to use my legs more and look like more of an athlete on the court.


The third problem: The finish

My extension can be decent enough sometimes but my finish seems to be very forced a lot of the time. I also tend to "Slap" the ball which may be another reason for the lack of spin and control. My goal is to try and just hit with one type of finish to start with, getting a good low to high swing path and aiming to finish at eye level before wrapping around to my upper shoulder. I would be happy if I could achieve this to start with!

Anyway, here are videos of 4 different views of my forehand. If you have any constructive criticism on my above plan then you can let me know. My plan is to use the teaching methodology that John uses to try and fix the problems I've outlined above.

Also, I hope to use a model player to help but I've yet to decide which one. As you can see, in the past, I tried and failed miserably to model my forehand off of a certain player, it will be interesting to see if you can guess who. If you guys have any suggestions on an appropriate model that would be cool too. Anyway, time to get to work on the forehand and I'll keep the thread updated with my progress and what I've attempted to do.

The videos:


Front:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94dHb-kE1WE&feature=youtu.be

Side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sua-GBNPg0

Rear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyj2RJUcgbA

Other Side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4qKQYv_JJc

Next up is the serve. I'll hopefully have that post ready for tomorrow.

Jonathan.

[jryle1]

Try hypnosis for weight loss/diet control. Eat gruel only, no meat, sugary things: stop the white deaths: flour, sugar, salt, starch. Ask JY about my lull-jam-finish piece.

Hey Geoff,

I went to two hypnotists in Ireland and they didn't work but my uncle found a psychologist in London whom I went to and he performed hypnosis among other things in a 2 hour session and it's worked properly.

As outlined above I follow the Paleo Diet. I don't eat any wheat or sugar or any processed foods. All natural, real, meat, fruit, veg, nuts and seeds and combined with the CrossFit I've lost a total of 60 pounds so far! 40 more to go!

[jasonfrausto]

Jonathan,

Nice detailed post. I like the forehand, looks good in the video, the grip seems very conservative, but maybe that is just the video? Looks more conservative than either Fed or Delpo to me. Other than that you're hitting a fed ball so who knows where other problems truly are in terms of your position or contact point. From a fed ball though, looks technically sound.

[jryle1]

Jonathan,

Nice detailed post. I like the forehand, looks good in the video, the grip seems very conservative, but maybe that is just the video? Looks more conservative than either Fed or Delpo to me. Other than that you're hitting a fed ball so who knows where other problems truly are in terms of your position or contact point. From a fed ball though, looks technically sound.

That's a very good point on the fed ball. If my contact point is too far away and late from a fed ball then in a match or open ball situation god knows what's going on with it! I plan on getting some footage of the strokes in actual play as well. Just haven't gotten the chance yet. Might even have a chance to get some today or in the next few days.

Yeah, in terms of the grip, it really is that conservative. I think it's literally in between a continental and an eastern forehand grip. That's why we're always joking in the club about my "chopper grip forehand" haha. Very strange that in my development as a junior I ended up with this grip whereas so many other players of my age have either semi-western or western. I don't think anyone other player my age in my club has a grip as conservative as mine. One of the reasons being I thought myself the stroke by watching my idols play. My favourite player by a long way is Roger Federer but when I was a 7 and 8 year old I used to love watching Pete Sampras as well. The biggest problem for me as well was that I took up the game relatively late. I played a bit when I was 7 or 8 because my parents played, and I mostly played during the summer from the ages of 9-12 but I only started playing all the time at the age of 14 and actually did coaching squads in my club at that age. Now I'm coaching kids who are 5 and 6 and using smaller rackets and the big red balls. I wish I had those opportunities as a kid but so do a lot of us I guess!

In terms of the grip, not too sure how I'll approach it. Might it help if I switch it around a tiny bit even to a full Eastern? It may help. I'll get some more footage though and work on what's happening with the fed ball as well and see!

Thanks for the feedback though, and Geoff also!

[GeoffWilliams]

I would try this, when you take back, face the hitting bed to the rear fence, straighten out your arm all the way to the back, not in a double bend, while the racquet tip is still vertical, and then go to the type III snap back, and you will increase the avail kinetic force/work with your arm extended all the way back. YOur unit turn is good, and that's half the battle.

[jasonfrausto]

That's a very good point on the fed ball. If my contact point is too far away and late from a fed ball then in a match or open ball situation god knows what's going on with it! I plan on getting some footage of the strokes in actual play as well. Just haven't gotten the chance yet. Might even have a chance to get some today or in the next few days.

Yeah, in terms of the grip, it really is that conservative. I think it's literally in between a continental and an eastern forehand grip. That's why we're always joking in the club about my "chopper grip forehand" haha. Very strange that in my development as a junior I ended up with this grip whereas so many other players of my age have either semi-western or western. I don't think anyone other player my age in my club has a grip as conservative as mine. One of the reasons being I thought myself the stroke by watching my idols play. My favourite player by a long way is Roger Federer but when I was a 7 and 8 year old I used to love watching Pete Sampras as well. The biggest problem for me as well was that I took up the game relatively late. I played a bit when I was 7 or 8 because my parents played, and I mostly played during the summer from the ages of 9-12 but I only started playing all the time at the age of 14 and actually did coaching squads in my club at that age. Now I'm coaching kids who are 5 and 6 and using smaller rackets and the big red balls. I wish I had those opportunities as a kid but so do a lot of us I guess!

In terms of the grip, not too sure how I'll approach it. Might it help if I switch it around a tiny bit even to a full Eastern? It may help. I'll get some more footage though and work on what's happening with the fed ball as well and see!

Thanks for the feedback though, and Geoff also!

No problem, and last question. What FPS did you shoot these videos at?

[jryle1]

I would try this, when you take back, face the hitting bed to the rear fence, straighten out your arm all the way to the back, not in a double bend, while the racquet tip is still vertical, and then go to the type III snap back, and you will increase the avail kinetic force/work with your arm extended all the way back. YOur unit turn is good, and that's half the battle.

As in using a WTA Style forehand? So the racket face should face the back fence and not to the side like the ATP forehand? Or when the racket is facing the side just extend my arm fully?

No problem, and last question. What FPS did you shoot these videos at?

They were shot at 210 fps. Any reason why or do you need any more info or just curious?

[jasonfrausto]

As in using a WTA Style forehand? So the racket face should face the back fence and not to the side like the ATP forehand? Or when the racket is facing the side just extend my arm fully?





They were shot at 210 fps. Any reason why or do you need any more info or just curious?

I've been doing stroke analysis through MotionView the last 8 years or so, I was going to run you in a side by side with Federer and some of the other big boys and post a link on YouTube for you to check out. Most of the stuff on TennisPlayer is shot in 120FPS, 250FPS, or 500FPS so I'm not sure how much of a discrepancy 210FPS to 250FPS would cause in an actual comparison. Thanks for the info, I may put something together if the different videos will cooperate.

Jason

[jasonfrausto]

Jonathan,

Unfortunately I was unable to run your videos taken from YouTube and get them to work in a full video analysis with the software program. I was however able to take still shots of you in your stroke at the same time as the pro players (Fish, Del Potro).

The distortion you see is either from me snagging your videos from YouTube or the issues between using your 210FPS and the 240FPS video of TennisPlayer. Not sure, but hopefully the still image analysis in the same stages of the swing will be helpful. I've highlighted differences I see in each stage with the pro players as well as some commonalities.

I'll leave it up to the board to determine what they see based on the photos.



Delpo is hitting a wide forehand, that is why the position of his racket is so different compared to both you and Mardy at this stage.







In the 4th image below it is tough to see because of your racket color and your shorts blending but your face is slightly open when pulling the frame forward in this particular shot. I can see it when running the video, but it can be more difficult to see in still images.

[jasonfrausto]

Images 5 and 6 below.

[vrc10s]

pictures

Nice work Jason!

[jasonfrausto]

Nice work Jason!

Thanks! I really hope people add useful commentary to the comparison stills that will help Jonathan on his forehand.

[jryle1]

Thanks! I really hope people add useful commentary to the comparison stills that will help Jonathan on his forehand.

Jonathan,

Unfortunately I was unable to run your videos taken from YouTube and get them to work in a full video analysis with the software program. I was however able to take still shots of you in your stroke at the same time as the pro players (Fish, Del Potro).

The distortion you see is either from me snagging your videos from YouTube or the issues between using your 210FPS and the 240FPS video of TennisPlayer. Not sure, but hopefully the still image analysis in the same stages of the swing will be helpful. I've highlighted differences I see in each stage with the pro players as well as some commonalities.

I'll leave it up to the board to determine what they see based on the photos.



Delpo is hitting a wide forehand, that is why the position of his racket is so different compared to both you and Mardy at this stage.







In the 4th image below it is tough to see because of your racket color and your shorts blending but your face is slightly open when pulling the frame forward in this particular shot. I can see it when running the video, but it can be more difficult to see in still images.

Wow, Jason, thanks a million for the above. It's pretty incredible. Great shots.

In relation to the first still, I think that's bang on. When I watched Rick Macci's video on the ATP forehand and he mentioned the "nudge" during the backswing with the elbow I knew straight away I didn't do it. I think looking at those stills it's pretty clear that my elbow is a lot closer to my body and a lot more tucked in than a lot of the other pros. Could this tucked in position be a factor in the pulling across with the racket head, and hence slapping the ball rather than the low to high motion which I will talk about when we get there.


For the 2nd still, the left arm and racket seem to be in pretty acceptable positions, once more a big difference being the elbow position. It's a lot tighter to my body than Fish and Delpo.

In the third still, my racket face is a lot more open than any other player I've seen in this position and the question here I ask myself there is, why? And I think the reason is a function of my grip. Because of my grip being so conservative I think it means my racket face will naturally be more open in this position but I'm not too sure on this! Will require some experimentation.

And you're right in that 4th still, my racket face is more open, again is this a function of the grip? Some experimentation might help us out on that one!


And finally, the 5th and 6th frames are the very interesting ones!! I have always suffered on my finish. It's far too low in relation to the model and comes across too much rather than up. This is probably the main reason for the lack of spin and the tendency to "Slap" the ball too flat. Why is this though? Is it a matter of physical strength or some other factor and this is where I'm going to throw in this point:


When I'm warming up in the boxes, I can generate ample amounts of spin no problem on my forehand, when I move back to the baseline though I'm unable to generate this spin. Which leads me to this question... How much has my footwork, body position and contact point contributed to my lack of ability to be consistent and hit spin on my forehand from the baseline. My having poor footwork and not using my body and also by being too far away from the ball, and only using my arm the reason why I'm unable to bring the racket from the low to high position like I am when warming up in the boxes.

It's an interesting question because maybe in the boxes because the ball is slower and easier to get to, maybe my position is better, my contact point is better and therefore I'm able to use my body better and not rely on my arm and thus my finish is better, but when I move back, when the ball gets quicker and starts coming with more spin (despite the fact this was a fed ball), maybe the contact point gets further away due to bad footwork and positioning, as a result I'm unable to use my whole body in the shot, and as a result I completely "arm" the ball and I don't have the physical strength in just my arm to continue the low to high path and as a result my follow through looks forced and I slap the ball and come across it.

It's an interesting idea I think and an idea I'm going to have to experiment with. What I'm going to plan is the following:

I'm going to tape me hitting my forehand in the boxes warming up where I'm happy with my ability to hit spin, just out of curiosity. I'm then going to move my grip more towards an Eastern Forehand and see how this affects my forehand, and I'm going to work on my contact point from the baseline, trying to get it further in front and closer to my body and then we'll see what happens.


Also, I'm expecting my Bailey Method Pro Pack to arrive sometime next week so looking forward to getting to work on that which will surely help!


Thanks again Jason for the fabulous work and insight. It's interesting! For me anyway!