A New Teaching System: The Serve: The Trophy Position

[don_budge]

Potential = room for improvement.

These are my thoughts. I actually don’t think Miles is too far away from a better serve. It’s pretty effective already!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCTOGPeei4Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsDkllR2Hu4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Z80walazA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aDVl_T9bAE

Just to get things started --doesn't he jackknife?

Pretty effective is a long way from being perfect. With this young man's athleticism and physique it would be a crime to settle for less than perfect. Yes he does jackknife...let's examine the possible reasons why.

From the don_budge model for service motions...

Preshot routine...not bad. I like the way that he begins with his racquet in the position behind him as he is bouncing the ball and methodically brings the racquet into position. The motion going forwards begins to synch the backswing. One or two too many bounces of the tennis ball...depending on the individual. I like one bounce or two...then setup position.

Setup position...again, not bad. Fine tune adjustments with regard to the foot position may lead to the back foot not so far behind the front foot with not so much balancing on the toe. Heel on the ground. I know that Roger Federer poses on his toe...but he is of course...Roger Federer.

Backswing and toss...here is where you can really get the thing on track. Notice how he shifts his weight back so that the foot is now placed with heel on the ground...the racquet has not begun to move. So if you begin with the heel on the ground in the first place and begin to "drop" the racquet as soon as the weight is shifting you will begin this swing in synch. You can see if you stop the action just where his back heel meets the ground that his racquet has barely moved from the setup position. At this point in his swing with his delivery his racquet head should already be back as far as his back foot.

He compounds his tempo issues with a bit of a hesitation at the bottom of his backswing and you see here the problem...the tossing hand is completely outstretched and the racquet head is still way down in the backswing. His tempo is totally messed up at this point as he makes a very athletic move to compensate for all of his convolutions to get back to the ball with his racquet. Even so...you witness the "jackknifiing" as he almost has to duck to hit the ball because it has taken him too long to transition into his forward swing.

The placement of his feet in his setup are setting him up to get the racquet and arm too far behind him at the point that he is going forwards...this is a bit of murky issue. It's a little difficult to judge where he actually is based on the angle of the camera.

Another rather dramatic motion that is compounding the timing issues is the lack of a downward movement of the tossing arm...he immediately goes up with the hand and the racquet hand has not even begun to contemplate its upward motion. I suspect that Mile's has had to toss the ball very high into the air in order to allow the racquet arm to catch up to the toss. The combination of the retarded backswing and the hesitation at the bottom of his backswing has created the need for this compensating move...the extra high ball toss.

Trophy position...here is a good illustration of what not to do at the trophy position. Miles never gets to the point where there is that little hesitation at the top of his backswing where he is transitioning to the forward swing. Where the racquet head is "falling" behind his back. Instead he is really rolling through this position which will of course create a real timing problem...which will result in a loss of control. In pressure situations or on a windy day...or a combination of both on a given day I would hate to see the thing fall apart or see Miles struggling to get the ball in play. This motion...particularly on a second serve appears to be very dicey to reproduce under any and all conditions. The acid test for a truly perfect motion.

Forward motion...actually this is the strength of Mile's delivery in a sense. His athleticism enables him to appear to have a very solid ball strike. The reality of the motion is that his timing has set him up to fail from the time that he starts that little backward motion without starting the racquet head back at the same time. Hence the "jackknifing".

Follow through...you can see that the whole rigamarole has rendered Miles off balance at the end of his swing. He is practically falling as he finishes his swing. He has what you might call...an absence of balance.

The movement and motion of the body should be synched with the racquet head in a great service motion. Mile's loses this cornerstone of great service technique very early on in his motion and he makes lots of compensating moves in between the initial movement and the ball strike...but none of them can get him to where he needs to be at the "trophy position". As usual...the culprit is in a combination of the backswing and the setup. In this case the setup is less responsible for the timing issue than the backswing...but I would tweek the feet nonetheless. Nothing less than perfect is acceptable in this case taking into consideration his physique and athletic ability.

Judging from the totality of the motion...the sum of the parts...I can see why he would have a tendency to be wild. I would bet that he could lose track of his second serve easily too. This is a splendid example of a serve that looks to be quite impressive initially that is actually fraught with all kinds of issues. The result of which is that awkward "jackknifing" move.

[stotty]

Pretty effective is a long way from being perfect. With this young man's athleticism and physique it would be a crime to settle for less than perfect. Yes he does jackknife...let's examine the possible reasons why.

From the don_budge model for service motions...

Preshot routine...not bad. I like the way that he begins with his racquet in the position behind him as he is bouncing the ball and methodically brings the racquet into position. The motion going forwards begins to synch the backswing. One or two too many bounces of the tennis ball...depending on the individual. I like one bounce or two...then setup position.

Setup position...again, not bad. Fine tune adjustments with regard to the foot position may lead to the back foot not so far behind the front foot with not so much balancing on the toe. Heel on the ground. I know that Roger Federer poses on his toe...but he is of course...Roger Federer.

Backswing and toss...here is where you can really get the thing on track. Notice how he shifts his weight back so that the foot is now placed with heel on the ground...the racquet has not begun to move. So if you begin with the heel on the ground in the first place and begin to "drop" the racquet as soon as the weight is shifting you will begin this swing in synch. You can see if you stop the action just where his back heel meets the ground that his racquet has barely moved from the setup position. At this point in his swing with his delivery his racquet head should already be back as far as his back foot.

He compounds his tempo issues with a bit of a hesitation at the bottom of his backswing and you see here the problem...the tossing hand is completely outstretched and the racquet head is still way down in the backswing. His tempo is totally messed up at this point as he makes a very athletic move to compensate for all of his convolutions to get back to the ball with his racquet. Even so...you witness the "jackknifiing" as he almost has to duck to hit the ball because it has taken him too long to transition into his forward swing.

The placement of his feet in his setup are setting him up to get the racquet and arm too far behind him at the point that he is going forwards...this is a bit of murky issue. It's a little difficult to judge where he actually is based on the angle of the camera.

Another rather dramatic motion that is compounding the timing issues is the lack of a downward movement of the tossing arm...he immediately goes up with the hand and the racquet hand has not even begun to contemplate its upward motion. I suspect that Mile's has had to toss the ball very high into the air in order to allow the racquet arm to catch up to the toss. The combination of the retarded backswing and the hesitation at the bottom of his backswing has created the need for this compensating move...the extra high ball toss.

Trophy position...here is a good illustration of what not to do at the trophy position. Miles never gets to the point where there is that little hesitation at the top of his backswing where he is transitioning to the forward swing. Where the racquet head is "falling" behind his back. Instead he is really rolling through this position which will of course create a real timing problem...which will result in a loss of control. In pressure situations or on a windy day...or a combination of both on a given day I would hate to see the thing fall apart or see Miles struggling to get the ball in play. This motion...particularly on a second serve appears to be very dicey to reproduce under any and all conditions. The acid test for a truly perfect motion.

Forward motion...actually this is the strength of Mile's delivery in a sense. His athleticism enables him to appear to have a very solid ball strike. The reality of the motion is that his timing has set him up to fail from the time that he starts that little backward motion without starting the racquet head back at the same time. Hence the "jackknifing".

Follow through...you can see that the whole rigamarole has rendered Miles off balance at the end of his swing. He is practically falling as he finishes his swing.

The movement and motion of the body should be synched with the racquet head in a great service motion. Mile's loses this cornerstone of great service technique very early on in his motion and he makes lots of compensating moves in between the initial movement and the ball strike...but none of them can get him to where he needs to be at the "trophy position". As usual...the culprit is in a combination of the backswing and the setup. In this case the setup is less responsible for the timing issue than the backswing...but I would tweek the feet nonetheless. Nothing less than perfect is acceptable in this case taking into consideration his physique and athletic ability.

Judging from the totality of the motion...the sum of the parts...I can see why he would have a tendency to be wild. I would bet that he could lose track of his second serve easily too. This is a splendid example of a serve that looks to be quite impressive initially that is actually fraught with all kinds of issues. The result of which is that awkward "jackknifing" move.

I have to say this is a really terrific post. Wonderfully written and explained...generous as always.

I don't coach Miles. I posted his serve as a thought it might be interesting to some forum members. But I do see him every day at the moment as he loves to play in the summer and has a break from university until September.

Of course, it will be irresistible for me to take him to one side, to spend time showing him the clips, then to go on court to resolve his backswing issues out.

One question, though: Starting with the heel back wouldn't seem ideal? Wouldn't starting the wind up in time with the rock back make more sense?

[joecb]

From the trophy position to disaster

Thanks so much for the entire series of articles on the service motion. I have a quick question: how does on prevent the collapse of the trophy position. That is, how can I help students to stop dropping the elbow into the ribs before beginning the upward swing? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; sorry if the question has already been addressed!

[bottle]

Tell the little bastards to keep the elbow up there in line with both shoulder balls or they'll have to take twenty laps and bring your lunch to you every day for a month.

[stotty]

Dropped elbow...

Thanks so much for the entire series of articles on the service motion. I have a quick question: how does on prevent the collapse of the trophy position. That is, how can I help students to stop dropping the elbow into the ribs before beginning the upward swing? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; sorry if the question has already been addressed!

If this question is directed at John Yandell, then post it in the Sticky Thread: Have a Question for me. This way he is sure to answer you directly. John doesn't police the entire forum so may not see what you have posted here.

That said, a dropped/low elbow is a common problem coaches run in to. It's curable with patience and good, methodical coaching.

Have your student serve from the trophy position without a wind up. Make sure you set the trophy position correctly so the elbow will roughly line up with the shoulders once the tossing arm has been fully extended. Make sure the next position your student goes to from the trophy position is the racket drop...without hitching or deviating. Have your student stick to this method for a month.

One month later...

Get your student to serve with a full wind up. By now he should have a sense of where the elbow should break and be able to start incorporating it in to the full action. If there is still some dropping of the elbow, stand alongside your student as they serve and tap underneath their elbow (I use a bamboo stick) if it sinks below the desired point. Gradually, gradually they will gain a sense of where their elbow should break and the problem will be cured.

I have used this method for many years and never failed to achieve a positive result.

Good luck.

[stotty]

Smart man that don_budge

Backswing and toss...here is where you can really get the thing on track. Notice how he shifts his weight back so that the foot is now placed with heel on the ground...the racquet has not begun to move. So if you begin with the heel on the ground in the first place and begin to "drop" the racquet as soon as the weight is shifting you will begin this swing in synch. You can see if you stop the action just where his back heel meets the ground that his racquet has barely moved from the setup position. At this point in his swing with his delivery his racquet head should already be back as far as his back foot.

Now this was really smart advice. I had never spotted this and don't think I was ever going to either. I had a go with Miles yesterday...synching his backswing with the rock back. It worked well. Even after ten minutes he was clearly showing improvement. The trophy position and extended tossing arm were starting to come together. He had more time in his backswing. With more practice I think his serve would improve significantly. He is away for 3 weeks on holiday now, but if I can catch him when he returns before he goes back to university, I'll work with him some more and upload some clips.

[don_budge]

From Setup to Trophy...Synching the Backswings of Roger Federer and John McEnroe

Initiating the Backswing...In Synch

One question, though: Starting with the heel back wouldn't seem ideal? Wouldn't starting the wind up in time with the rock back make more sense?

Miles...the Guinea Pig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aDVl_T9bAE

I like your question very much. It is up to you as to how to proceed. I am what you call a strict fundamentalist when it comes to teaching. First I try to get the student to do things fundamentally correct (FC) but then of course it is up to them, with me to guide them, on how to proceed. By starting Miles with the heel down I am trying to get him to “walk before he runs”. In the end...the student alone will make the decisions about their bodies, attitudes and their own interpretation of the game artistically speaking. Here are a couple of examples of the rear heel synching with the movement of the racquet head downwards and backwards in the backswing.

For some reason I don’t like the term “rock” in association with the backswing but I know that tennis_chiro likes it. I prefer transfer...as in weight transfer. Which doesn’t necessarily make him wrong or me right or vice versa. That’s one of the things that I love about tennis_chiro...and you too for that matter.

Roger Federer...The Model

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_serve/rf_1st_serve/rf_1st_serve.html?RF1stSDeuceFront1.mov

First of all let’s take a look at the position of the back foot of Roger Federer in his set up position. Since Federer is the model of the John Yandell series of video lessons on teaching the service motion this is an excellent place to start. The set up. Let’s see if we can somehow tie in the setup with the backswing in order to get us into a classic trophy position from where it is possible to make a number of different passes on the ball with the same motion.

The back foot of Federer is poised on his toe and surprisingly pretty much in line with his front foot...in fact it is almost directly behind his front foot. The way that I teach the setup position...particularly to beginners is to use their toes as a sight to their target. I have them make a line at the end of their toes to the target. I try to instill aiming into the procedure.

Take a look at the relationship of Federer’s foot with his racquet head to begin with. If you can get Miles to understand this bit of synchronicity it will get him to begin his backswing with a nice temp with the racquet head and all of the parts of his body together working together. As Roger begins his backswing with a drop of the racquet head you can see that as you click through using the arrow key frame by frame the perfect decent of the racquet head in synch with the heel of his back foot descending to the ground.

For exactly 27 clicks the racquet head and the heel of his right foot are descending together and they both hit “rock bottom” together on the 27th click. Notice also that his tossing arm also reaches the lowest point at that same precise moment. In fact all of Roger’s “balance” or his “center of gravity” has reached it’s low point on the 27th click...plus or minus individual perceptions of his movement.

From this point all of Roger’s balance or center of gravity is going to be raising itself into the trophy position and he takes 22 clicks to accomplish just that. So that is 49 clicks from the beginning of his downward movement until he raises himself up to strike at the ball...chest to the sky. On precisely the 49th click the racquet head is beginning to make it’s free fall decent behind him as the racquet head will go into it’s loop behind him. 49 clicks from initiation of backswing to the point of transition from backswing to forward swing...or trophy position. The position to go forwards to strike.

There is the perfect timing of the racquet head and all of the parts of his body coordinated beautifully that poises him to strike at the ball with not only all of his potential energy...but balance as well.

John McEnroe...The Mirror Image and Artistic Interpretation

Front view...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_serve/mac_1st_serve/mac_1st_serve.html?Mac1stSDeuceFront1.mov

Back view...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_serve/mac_1st_serve/mac_1st_serve.html?Mac1stSDeuceRear.mov

Let’s have a look at the same aspect of the drop and lift of the backswing from the other side of the coin...the mirror image. From the southpaw side. This is where it pays to be left handed in teaching a right handed player...they are looking at the mirror image when you demonstrate to them.

John McEnroe position at set up looks to be a bit curious initially but it makes perfect sense to him and he uses it to his advantage. It gives a great perspective on the movement of his racquet head in relation to his back foot and the rest of his body parts. It’s a rather amazing interpretation that he begins his service motion from...but it also makes perfect sense from a classical point of view. That is...when keeping in mind the Federer model that John Yandell has so appropriately chosen for his teaching model.

At the beginning of this clip take a look at the back foot of John McEnroe. It is actually “floating” in the air. At click number 12 the toe of his back foot lightly meets the earth as his racquet has been descending in synch with his motion downwards. From click number 12 forwards, McEnroe uses the next 10 clicks bobbing his racquet head back up again until he gets to the point where his equilibrium settles and this is where the whole structure will begin to sink a bit backwards and mostly downwards...the heel drops to the ground and the racquet head with it.

It is at click number 22 that McEnroe is actually starting his service motion as the first 22 clicks were merely a part of his “waggle”, which in golfspeak is the motion that immediately precursors the actual swing. It enables the player to smoothly transition from a static position to the fluid motion of the swing...and fluid is a good term to describe McEnroe’s service motion. His motion matches his temperament...it is mercurial.

For approximately the next 24 or 25 clicks from the number 22 click point that McEnroe is descending into the heel of his foot and the racquet head is falling downwards with it to its lowest point...notice also that the tossing hand is in perfect synch in a down together motion with the racquet arm and the rest of his body for that matter. It is the same as in the Federer model give or take. From the low point in the motion John takes exactly 30 clicks to raise himself into position to go after the strike...from the trophy position. This is the point where the racquet head is in position to free fall behind his back. That is 54 clicks from the initiation of the backswing to trophy position or transition position to go forwards. AKA...get into position. 54 clicks for McEnroe...49 clicks for Federer.

This is an interesting interpretation that at first glance appears to be somewhat unorthodox because of the unusual setup position but upon closer inspection he uses fundamentally correct movements to get himself into the classic trophy position. Despite his apparently unorthodox setup...McEnroe is actually FC (fundamentally correct).

So if we compare the rhythm’s of Messrs. Federer and McEnroe it appears that by counting the clicks that Federer’s motion is a bit quicker on the upswing than that of McEnroe’s. It took Federer approximately 27 clicks to reach the lowest part of his backswing compared to 25 for McEnroe. From that low point in the backswing it took Federer approximately 22 clicks to get to the trophy position compared to McEnroe’s 30 clicks. So Federer has a slightly slower backswing initially but it picks up speed on the upswing quicker when compared to the really slow and methodic upswing in the backswing of McEnroe.

I believe that to be true based on the real time viewing of the swing. I like McEnroe’s rhythm slightly better than Federer’s as McEnroe’s upswing in the backswing really struggles to get to the top of the hill where it will tip over and go into the loop behind him and come out with a screaming racquet head speed. This very deliberate and slow backswing gives the opponent the sensation that the ball is coming off the racquet just a bit quicker than it actually is. The delay also adds to the ability to deceive as well. Both players have nice slow, rhythmic backswings that will repeat under and any conditions due to nerves, pressure or atmospheric. Keep in mind that McEnroe is some 25 years older than Federer also.

So licensedcoach...if you can get Miles to descend into his heel ala Federer or McEnroe that is one thing. But another thing is his lateral movement backwards and then forwards that I find less pleasing to the eye than either of the movements of the maestros that I am using as examples. A brief post to follow to address this aspect of service motion.

[don_budge]

Staying in the Barrel...or in the Cylinder

So licensedcoach...if you can get Miles to descend into his heel ala Federer or McEnroe that is one thing. But another thing is his lateral movement backwards and then forwards that I find less pleasing to the eye than either of the movements of the maestros that I am using as examples.

Pat Dougherty talks about keeping your body in a cylinder in the "wind up" and beyond. Tossing to the right alittle more and staying "in the cylinder" would serve him well. It never ceases to amaze me how little the human eye actually sees. Watching the slow motion serves were so much more helpful than normal speed. Even at the "slower motion", I was constantly stopping and starting the video to get a true idea.

McEnroe...rotating and upwards thrust

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_serve/mac_1st_serve/mac_1st_serve.html?Mac1stSDeuceFront1.mov

Miles lateral move underneath the ball...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aDVl_T9bAE

seano10s makes a very good point here about “staying in the cylinder”. In golfspeak we say staying in the barrel. This means that if you were to imagine a barrel surrounding the server or the golfer that the motion is one more of rotation than lateral transfer. The power of the motion is in the rotational energy of the shoulders and hips plus the simultaneous upwards thrusting action of the legs and the throwing of the racquet at the ball transmitted into the motion...not the backwards then forwards lateral motion. I can’t agree with him more regarding the ability to slow things down and to stop and start the action. Although I find that in person, in three dimensional space I have no problems detecting flaws and small details. Video actually has its limitations if you do not have the ability to slow motion and stop and start.

In the case of the McEnroe serve we have the perfect backdrop from which to gage his lateral movement. The “Quality Challenge” sign in the background gives us a clue as to how this lateral movement functions in the McEnroe serve. Notice how there is some lateral movement backwards in relationship to the sign as he is descending into his backswing...but once he reaches this low point in his backswing all of the movement appears to be rotational and upwards. See how the position of his head remains fixed as the shoulders rotate around it. The movement is basically upwards and not forwards until after the hit.

Federer is of course doing the exact same thing but from the angle it is just a bit more difficult to see. I believe that the lateral movement back of Federer is considerably less than that of McEnroe. McEnroe’s peculiar alignment helps us to decipher this aspect of the service motion. A side view from the front of Federer would be optimal in his case.

Sure there is more lateral motion in a serving motion than there is a golfswing, particularly in the loading stage...but I hope you understand the point. Miles makes too much of this lateral transfer instead of the descending motion that turns into a lifting and turning motion. So there is the perfect rhythm for the backswing...drop, lift and turn.

It looks as if Miles is sort of forced to surge forwards as opposed to the preferred surge upwards at the ball. Problems in his tempo result in the ball being in an unfavorable position relative to his body (serving machine). He looks as if he is hitting in a position where the ball is sort of behind him as he has moved too far forwards under it. In golf...you try to stay behind the ball. To surge laterally ahead of the ball is the kiss of death. The same can be said here.

I believe that if you can synch that backswing with the rest of his body...perhaps starting with the heel you can get him into a really nice trophy position and once you do that...stand back and admire what this kid can do. He has the body and the talent to hit a really fine serve. Set up and backswing...it is so important to get in position to go forwards from the fundamentally correct position.

I am really looking forwards to your submitting some video after some of your coaching. We should see some nice results.

[don_budge]

After the trophy...Launch angle

Once we get young Miles into a classic trophy position...then we want him here in position to strike. Racquet has free fallen, weight perfectly poised and balanced on the front foot toes. Ready to launch...if he can get here...the sky is the limit.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=477&stc=1&d=1326870691

[don_budge]

Trophy Position Collapse...swing the racquet, don't hit the ball

Thanks so much for the entire series of articles on the service motion. I have a quick question: how does on prevent the collapse of the trophy position. That is, how can I help students to stop dropping the elbow into the ribs before beginning the upward swing? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; sorry if the question has already been addressed!

Hello joecb...good question. A common flaw in beginners or self taught players. This is a familiar position to a tennis teacher if you have taught for any length of time.

The root cause of such a problem is the arm folding before it gets to the top of the backswing. May I suggest the following explanation to the student to prevent this malfunction from occurring.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve.html?Federer1stSDeuceSide2.mov

At frame #19 in the Roger Federer side view of his service motion notice the position of the arm and racquet structure. Now use the right arrow to click forwards through his backswing. For the next 26 frames Roger maintains the integrity for the most part of this structure until the racquet head reaches the highest point in the backswing where it is going to fall directly behind his back and go into the loop behind him. No tucking from Roger.

Emphasize to the student to create "width" in the backswing and to swing the arm and racquet in a relaxed and leisurely manner as a unit until the head of the racquet does what it wants to naturally given the option...it wants to fall behind you. Without prematurely tucking in the arm, the head of the racquet will swing in the largest arc possible and the problem should be eliminated.

[johnyandell]

joe,

My take on the elbow collapse is that the effort to abbreviate the motion often leads to this. So the circular backswing, as also demonstrated in the Paul Goldstein article.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/your_strokes/2006/paul_goldstein_serve_4_01_06/paul_goldstein_serve_4_01_06.html

In addition starting the motion from both the trophy position and from the drop, creating kinesthetic images of those positions, and then working back and forth between all three.

And thanks for the good words about the series.

[don_budge]

Your Strokes: Paul Goldstein: Serve Analyzed by John Yandell

My take on the elbow collapse is that the effort to abbreviate the motion often leads to this. So the circular backswing, as also demonstrated in the Paul Goldstein article.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/your_strokes/2006/paul_goldstein_serve_4_01_06/paul_goldstein_serve_4_01_06.html

Excellent article. One of the great things about this website is the forum where "piling on" is allowed and even encouraged. I hope you don't mind.

The formatting of your article with the video clips makes it a valuable tool. I miss your article format with the written analysis in your new video teaching series. The illustration along with the analysis is really eye opening. But I always say..."Once the air stops moving that that the lips created by flapping many people have forgotten what was said". It's my way of saying that I like to see it in writing. There is a lot of value in the printed words.

"Does the shape of the wind up really matter? In my opinion the answer is probably no, so long as the windup delivers the racket to the full drop position."

"But it does go to show that strong technical elements tend to go together naturally. It may be that feeling a better racket drop was the prerequisite for putting the other elements together."

"Better technical positions in one area can automatically lead to unexpected technical improvements in others."

"Rather than taking the racket out to the side and then up and back, Paul's backswing expanded with the motion of the arm and racket moving much more downward and backward before going up."

With regard to your first statement...I think that the shape of the wind up definitely matters and the two quotes that follow support this.

Here is one more point to think about with regard to the Goldstein serve as compared with the Sampras serve...which was an excellent comparison by the way. Speaking of windups and shape of the backswing...Sampras takes the tip of his racquet right down the line that is created by the tips of his toes. He not only takes it down the line of his toes but he continues this line all the way to the fence behind him thus allowing all of his body parts to line up in the same plane at the same time when he has attained a truly classic "trophy position".

Paul Goldstein on the other hand takes the tip of his racquet to the outside of the line that his toes create thereby creating a different shape in his backswing and in my opinion a less efficient model of attaining the "trophy position". Notice that in the Sampras setup position that he has the racquet in position to drop by merely letting go with the hand that is holding the balls but Goldstein on the other hand just might have his racquet just a tad to the left which encourages him to take his backswing to the outside. But that being said his serve was vastly improved by the engineering that you did...his serve is a much more efficient machine as a result.

The backswing to the outside is much preferred to the backswing that is too quickly "pulled" to the inside. Richard Gonzales used this outside path on his backswing much of his career.

You notice how the line of Goldstein's swing is right down the line of his toes when he is doing the exercise that you worked him into. His backswing might well assimilate this same line. I believe he would get some additional pop on the ball if he does. The motion will have less friction in it as it morphs from backswing to forward swing out of the trophy position. The last comment that I quoted is directly addressing this idea.

Why point this out? I think that the Sampras model is more easily duplicated more often...more consistently. If for some reason Goldstein starts to deviate his backswing shape by some degrees to the inside or the outside then this is going to have another compensating effect somewhere down the chain reaction on a given day. But for Pete to take his backswing right down the line of his toes he will never deviate from that shape so his serve is going to perform more consistently day in day out. Look at how effortlessly Pete's racquet ends up falling behind him into the back scratch position. Paul's effort looks to be slightly more laborious...doesn't it? Paul's outside of the line backswing restricts his arc backwards just a bit compared to the backswing of Pete Sampras.

You want that racquet to drop into the same slot every single time. Depending upon the speed or deviation of Goldstein's backswing this may be a place where he may get some variance in his backswing transitioning into the trophy position and forwards.

Truly an excellent article...with a lot of food for thought. Thanks John for another truly great issue of TennisPlayer.net!

[stotty]

The cylinder...mac's engineering...mac's net speed

In the cylinder...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06ToXPyJYA

Interesting viewing Mac's serve again in this thread. His serve is an amazing piece of engineering. It's a wacky looking delivery yet it all comes together at the moment of truth.

My father was a soccer player who played professionally. He always told me when it comes to speed the first yard is in your head. This is what could make a slower player quicker than a fast player...or so he claimed. I think he was right. McEnroe hadn't the quickest legs of his era, but he was certainly the quickest at the net...where the first yard is what counts.