Butt flying back on serve

[bman]

I think at one point I saw someone online address this, and it's probably somewhere on this site, but I don't have time to search every serve article.

If you've taught tennis for any decent length of time, you've seen it. How do you correct it? Toss basically is in the right place. Trophy position is good. Then, instead of cartwheeling up and over the ball, the butt scoots back and they do a fadeaway serve.

Serve masters, impart your wisdom to us mere mortals.

[stotty]

Kick back

I think at one point I saw someone online address this, and it's probably somewhere on this site, but I don't have time to search every serve article.

If you've taught tennis for any decent length of time, you've seen it. How do you correct it? Toss basically is in the right place. Trophy position is good. Then, instead of cartwheeling up and over the ball, the butt scoots back and they do a fadeaway serve.

Serve masters, impart your wisdom to us mere mortals.

Hi, bman...

The answers are often in the articles on Tennisplayer itself. The archive of articles is getting quite big these days and there's lot of good stuff buried in there. I found this one which may help you. On page two of the article it shows how to prompt/encourage kick back. I've used the method a few times. It works well with some students.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/the_myth/the_myth_of_the_back_foot_images/the_myth_of_the_back_foot.html

[johnyandell]

Bman,

Focus on the landing. Make the player land inside the baseline on the front foot and do the hoppity hop. Emphasize erect posture. if they don't stand up if they try to keep the balance on one foot they may fall over. If you show the player to themselves on video it is usually huge.

[don_budge]

Reverse pivot...a common golf malady.

I think at one point I saw someone online address this, and it's probably somewhere on this site, but I don't have time to search every serve article.

If you've taught tennis for any decent length of time, you've seen it. How do you correct it? Toss basically is in the right place. Trophy position is good. Then, instead of cartwheeling up and over the ball, the butt scoots back and they do a fadeaway serve.

Serve masters, impart your wisdom to us mere mortals.

It sounds a bit like a golf reverse pivot from your description, although I am curious as to what it actually looks like. Any chance of a video...bman.

It will be awfully difficult for the butt to fly backwards if the back leg is swinging through.

[bottle]

Discussion, Challenge, Provocation-- All Good

This is definitely a pertinent passage whether it's what I'm capable of and want to do or not. Is John M. Barnaby talking about a backspun cannonball? From RACKET WORK-- THE KEY TO TENNIS, Allyn and Bacon, 1969, page 72:

"The principle usually missed is that the execution of the cannonball swing is almost entirely vertical. Most players try to move forward into the ball, thinking this puts the weight into it. It does, but only partially. The greatest weight jolt by far is produced by decisively emphasizing the downward follow-through, bending so the head goes low and the buttocks pop out backwards a little. The feet don't need to move. When the fanny moves back it accelerates the top of the torso forward and down. The downswing again accentuates this head and torso motion into the ball. In sum, when we swing this way we move weight forward into the ball faster than any other way. This surprises many people-- but try it: swing your arm and racket and head DOWN to your left side and notice how your shoulders move FORWARD. It sounds illogical-- to make a predominantly vertical effort in order to produce an essentially horizontal result-- but it is true. Last, watch some player who boasts a truly lethal cannonball; you will see what has been described here.

"Do not be confused by the fact that many 'big servers' cross their right foot over as they finish. The right leg coming over adds little if anything to the service and isn't supposed to; it simply starts one to net. Bill Tilden used to serve aces without moving except to bow sharply from the waist and kick his tail out behind as here described. He also of course had terrific whippy wrist action."

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/billtilden/billtilden_sa.html?BTServe.mov

[bman]

Thanks John, and Bottle...I think that describes it exactly! Thanks for citing that. It is that true that when you swing down and to the left your hip does fly back.