Vin's Serve

[dexgodbey]

Hi, John.

Dexter here.

I think your analysis of Vin's serve is super...as always.

I also think the reprogramming exercises you suggested for Vin are great. And, even though there is nothing at all wrong with my serve (other than pace, spin, accuracy, control, and consistence, of course) I will certainly attempt to do those same exercises, too, just as a tune up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me all of us ought to go through the steps you outlined for Vin on a regular basis...quarterly for example...just as a self test and to do a periodic realignment and readjustment.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume those exercises are universally applicable regardless of age, gender, experience, and ability level?

And if you have some other sort of self test/self help things like those you could recommend it would be terrific. (Maybe there's a seed for a whole article there?)

Finally, you mentioned the "low elbow" in relation to Vin's racket drop. I suspect that's been addressed in one or more articles somewhere, but I'm a not sure where. Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks. You're the best.

Dexter

PS - I'm not sure what it means to be a "Junior Member," but it certainly does my "Senior Body" good to be referred to as a Junior anything...

[scottap]

How to Practice

A variation on this question. What's the most effective way to do these drills? Should I only do the first drill until I've mastered it before going on to the next one, or should I do the sequence of three during each practice session? What kind feedback should I be looking for that tells me that I've mastered the skill that the drill is trying to teach? (Hit X number of balls in a row successfully, etc.)

I know there's any number of variables, and a lot of it depends on the individual player, but some kind of guidelines/goals would be still be helpful.

In general, this site has so much great information that it's hard for me to resist the urge to try to do many things at once. Identifying the basics and building on them properly is the challenge.

Scott

[johnyandell]

Dex and Scott,

Dex: Look at the Bruce Elliott Power Serve articles and my Sampras Serve articles. I think that the kind of evaluation you are looking for is something that has to be based on video of your strokes. If I saw your serve, I might recommend something completely different. You're welcome to submit some video.

Scott: Same goes for you. Feel free to submit something. Those exercises are great. But what if you had no racket drop or the wrong stance or the wrong footwork on your landing or no pronation or a short followthrough or low contact...you get the idea. Doing what we suggested for Vin is great--assuming you have exactly the same problems.

I'll say this a few more thousand times on this site. I don't like to make up gratuitous advice that may or may not really apply to a given player. It may sound good and even make people feel good to readt, but does it actually help?

I've found that virtually no one I have worked with was able in advance to describe their technical problems (this included John McEnroe) in a way that matched what the video saw.

Gentlemen, get out those cameras...

John

[vmiller]

Hey John,

In case you didn't get my email, I want to make sure you get a thank you one way or another, so thanks for the great analysis. I thoroughly enjoyed every second of reading it and I'm full of ambition to master the drills you provided!

I think you gave me some great advice and I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

Vin

[johnyandell]

Hey Vin,

Got the email and wrote you a response too! But great to see here!

John

[vmiller]

Got the email and wrote you a response too!

I didn't get it. I hope my spam filter didn't eat it. If there was anything in your message that you were expecting a reply to, please resend it.

[johnyandell]

Sorry, I'll dig it out and resend when I get back from Montreal. Send me a reminder in about 10days...

[vmiller]

Roger's cup? Have fun and come back with some good footage

I was working on the first of the serve drills today and have some questions. Should I ask them now or wait until you get back?

[shootermcmarc0]

John, today i went out and did the drills you recommended for vin...i must say, it did help my balance. but now, my left knee hurts (i'm a right hander). at least my balance is fixed, i just hope i can remember how to keep the balance when i use a deeper knee bend.

[johnyandell]

Vin,

Fire away but again they may not be too easy to answer without video--let's see what they are.

Shooter,

Land on your front foot, kick the back leg back and just balance like that--maybe 1 hop is ok but no step with the right foot.

[vmiller]

OK. Here goes.

1. Should the toss for this drill not be as far into the court as for a full serve? It makes sense to me that it shouldn't because the forward movement from the leg drive is taken away, but I want to make sure.

2. Considering the second serve has a different contact point, is this drill effective for second serves as well?

I never claimed to have a good toss, but man, this drill really uncovers how horrendous it is! On average I need two or three tosses for each serve I hit.

[johnyandell]

I wouldn't think about it that way. Go up to your contact point and place the arm and racket just right. Now visualize the path of the toss going there. Your tossing motion could be slower on the arm drop--compare with Fed. Also there are two ways to hold the ball--fingertips and in the palm of your hand like Pete--you might try both to see which improves your accuracy.

[shootermcmarc0]

so the back leg kicking back is something that should be somewhat forced? i thought the kick back is the result of the leg drive and the body's way of keeping balance (while in the air).

[vmiller]

Thanks John. What about the second question? Will this drill work with second serves?

[johnyandell]

The leg kick should be natural, but if it's not happening you can give it a jump start.

And yese you want good balance on the second serve too! So the drill works--if you can't catch yourself after the first hop something is off.