Video Analysis

[tpatennis]

I (Tom Allsopp) have designed a website called TPAtennis.com

I work WITH coaches, tennis coaching parents and players to provide services tailored to clients specific needs.

I demonstrate how parents can effectively coach their children by 'Creating an Effective Working Relationship' using 'Effective Questioning' involving 'Decision Making' and providing 'Purposeful Practice Methods'

On the front page of my website you can see a video that I made for a client. The video was designed to help the parent improve his son's footwork by demonstrating alternative footwork patterns while showing him coaching methods that involve decision making so his son is engaged in his own development and can use the footwork at the right time and for specific reasons.

I focused on his movement because I saw it to be his only real flaw in the short video that I was analyzing. I believe it is important to have kids learn how to move with the shot and make adjustments rather than to watch Roger Federer and stand their trying to imitate him.

I understand that this website is based around watching and analyzing the strokes of professionals and I don't want to be disrespectful towards it or this method of learning (I am a paying customer after all!) . However, it is only purposeful to copy professional's strokes if you do it within context of your own game and the specific improvements you are trying to make.

This is a conversation I had in regards to my video analysis. I thought I would post it to see what everyone else thinks on here:



I think the pattern u r demonstrating doesn't fully plant the right side so u can drive back forwards. You've neutralized the lateral momentum, but I think the force from your right leg is going essentially straight up. In fact, in your slomo video, your right foot is still moving a couple of more inches to the right as that foot goes up in the air. I'm suggesting u plant and sink into the right leg and then drive up and forward about a vertical axis through your left ear, which would pull your right foot immediately back to the left of where it is planted. Admittedly, u may not always have time go do this, but I'd like to see it as an option; in my opinion, the preferred option.

.......

I could have done, and often do teach that forehand, but I wanted him to get used to just moving with the shot gracefully rather than leaning. Hopefully I can work with him and his dad again and have him hitting a more aggressive stroke where he can load up. I think at 6 years old he won't be loading up as much as moving with the shot, unless he is in a very controlled environment.

.…

Shri is an exciting prospect. Shows a lot of promise. I just like to see the kids learn to stop (obey the rules) before they start moving through everything (breaking the rules) I hope they continue to work with u. Be interesting to see what he looks like 3 years from now.

…

Yes he seems very talented. I have to disagree with you. Real life tennis is moving as you hit so you can make adjustments and have your body working together. This is the first thing kids should learn.

......

I'm hoping to have to try to isolate some rallies in that Aussie Open final. For the moment, we'll have to agree to disagree. I want them to learn the basic a little better before they incorporate it into the reality of movement; u r taking the opposite tact. We both agree in the end there is a lot of hitting on the move. But I think it is amazing how well Djokovic and Murray are able to set themselves up completely still for so many very fast balls.

.....

Yes, I think the complete opposite. I want him to understand the basics of real life tennis where you constantly move and make adjustments and improvisations before he gets the privilege of the relatively easy task of standing still and loading.

.........

I don't have time right now to go through and really isolate what I am advocating, but look at this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzsRKXRs2hU

In particular, the rallies the first couple of minutes at 1:17, 2:04, 2:21, 2:55, 3:33 and 3:42, especially the 2:55 and 3:42. I didn't have time to go further in this clip (at least not right now; I love the clip). You would be absolutely right to say they are hitting most of the balls exactly as you demonstrate in your video; but, when they have the choice, it is amazing how well they set up and how simple their footwork is. The back foot might get pulled into the court, but otherwise, it is an almost textbook example of how one might teach a beginner: turn, balance, finish on the front foot, head very still. Certainly, the student needs to learn what you are demonstrating, but shouldn't the gold standard of how you hit the ball (my choice of terms), at least be included as an option for how you hit the ball. I'm saying it needs to be emphasized first to have any hope that there remains a shred of that fundamental principle in the shot that gets ripped to shreds by the hellacious speed that is playing a bigger and bigger role in the game.

looking forward to continuing the discussion (it should be on the forum)

..............

From what I see, he doesn't seem to be in immediate danger of losing the "fundamental principle in the shot." His technique is extremely good but his movement wasn't. Therefore I gave him better patterns to help him achieve certain things on court. I could have added the shot you love but it's still not as important as learning to play the game that requires moving, adjusting, improvising and a whole lot of reading skills.


Feel free to keep this conversation going....

[tennis_chiro]

Please check the Swedish footwork thread as well

This is the link to the other thread:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=21196&posted=1#post21196

I also want to point out I love what Tom is doing in his video analysis. I simply have a different point of view of where the greatest emphasis should be.


Here is my post #14 from that thread:


This is a great thread, but I think the heart of the question is much deeper than whether the style of footwork advocated in the Swedish video clips is appropriate of not. I don't think so many optional footwork patterns should be "taught". As I understand it, David Bailey's work came out of his many years of working with players at the Bollettierri Academy in Bradenton. But I doubt if anyone ever taught Andre Agassi or Pete Sampras a "mogul" footwork move. Probably early on in his development, Robert Lansdorp taught Pete to set his plant foot down pointed to the side fence, but I would bet he taught him to set up as early as possible to hit the ball from a balanced platform and then simply marveled that Pete could hit the ball so well even when he wasn't on the ground. (Hey John, could you ask Robert?!) I do know from meeting him and talking to him that he is very proud of how tough he would feed balls to his students. For me, while he may not have been the fastest player on the court, Andre has the best footwork in recent memory. I doubt very much that his dad ever taught him any of these compensating moves for adjusting to hit the ball off balance. His adjustment was to play the ball on the rise if he had to, but he almost always had his feet set beautifully.

The best movement on the court in today's game belongs to the Fab Four, with Djokovic probably the best of the group. Jelena Gencic was a career tennis coach who may have adopted specific patterns in teaching Novak, but I really doubt she ever "taught" him how to hit a ball when he was unable to get in position, at least not with a specific footwork pattern. And I can not for the life of me imagine Niki Pilic doing anything like that. Andy Murray finished his development as a teenager under the tutelage of Pato Alvarez at the Casal-Sanchez Academy in Spain, but the movement he exhibits when he covers the court with his unbelievable range seems to me to have little to do with Pato's V-shape double-rhythm footwork pattern. (Martin Balbridge's piece on the Spanish coaching system , cited below, is a great read.) Federer is characterized by his long strides as the opposite of the shuffle steps that Rafa seems to employ much more in the vein of the double-rhythm pattern. Just outside that Fab Four, Ferrer does indeed seem to employ that double-rhythm footwork pattern. No question, it works! But is it the best way to go? I'm not so sure; in fact, I don't think so. It certainly is a simple system that works. But again, I don't think that system teaches you how to put your feet down in all these crazy compensating patterns. The movement drills create situations where the player has to adjust and adapt his footwork to play the ball, but I doubt very much they are working like choreographers learning different steps. I think Stotty is very much on the money when he brings up the point that the first step is in your mind. I'm going to add that it better be connected to the racket head.

I don't think Larissa Preobrazhenskaya, when she was training Dementieva, Safina or Myskina and having them go through her disciplined stroking drills to learn their initial movement patterns, was having these future champions practice hitting the ball compensating for not getting in position in time. On the contrary, they didn't have the chance to hit as many balls as other kids, but they got very disciplined, balanced initial stroking mechanics down pat before they even got to play in any kind of competition.

Basically, you can't get away from the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy Increases. That means disorder increases. If you start out at a certain level of orderliness, you will invariably descend to some lower order, unless some additional energy is put in to maintain or increase that level of order. If you start out with a stroke that is less than perfectly balanced under ideal conditions, when it is subjected to stress and pressure, it will not miraculously get better; it will degenerate and degrade. So we are better off trying to instill the highest order of "orderliness" initially so that when the stroke inevitably is subjected to stress and pressure, enough of the good elements of that "orderly" stroke remain to allow it to function. To put that Second Law into more colloquial terms: "S*#t happens!" and before you know it you are in the state described by the acronyms S.N.A.F.U. or F.U.B.A.R. and the player has to adjust and adapt. The point I was trying to make to Tom Alsopp (please see his thread: http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...1189#post21189) is that I want to focus the initial habits of my young players as close as possible on the ideal (footwork like Agassi) and give them as high a level of "orderliness" from which they will naturally descend in the heat of competition and pressure.

When I saw how well they were hitting the ball from the point of view of classical footwork, preparation and balance in the heated exchanges of the Australian Open final, it just confirmed that belief for me. Of course they hit a lot of balls on the move and from compensated and adapted positions, but it is amazing how much of the time they were able to get into great position to hit the ball even though it was traveling into corners at over 80 mph.

I'm hoping this thread and Tom Allsopp's thread continue and we get a little more discussion here. Below are some of the links to references in my post.

I really think we need to spend more time examining the process that players like Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Sampras, etc went through to develop into the players they became. And I mean details of how many hours of instruction, practice, match practice and tournament practice they had at each stage of their careers, down to day to day training schedules and tournament schedules. I've been in the business (counting when I became a ballboy for lessons) for 50 years, and I can't find satisfactory information describing the journeys those kind of players took. It would be a great resource and I would think it would be something that those players would be glad to contribute to further the game.

don

Tom Allsopp's thread:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=21189#post21189

Spartak Tennis Club: Larisa Preobrazhenskaya

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/sports/playmagazine/04play-talent.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Pato Alvarez's Spanish coaching system by Martin Balbridge

http://www.soyouwanttowinwimbledon.com/TG%20INSIDE%20THE%20SPANISH%20COACHNG%20SYSTEM.pdf

"forward and backward V-shape using the double-rhythm footwork pattern"

Jelena Gencic(also coached Seles and Ivanisevic) or Niki Pilic with Djokovic

http://novakdjokovic.com/en/novak-djokovic/

pictures of Jelena hitting with young Novak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_3zzqReZg

[tennis_chiro]

Just wanted to give this thread another chance

I didn't want this thread to die, especially in light of the new series from David Bailey. There were a couple of comments in the thread on Swedish footwork, but I thought there might be a little more comments out there.

don

[stotty]

Tom versus don

I am not sure either party is right or wrong here. Should kids learn to move first or learn to set up and load correctly first? Is doing one before the other putting the head before the cart. There is a strong suspicion in the UK that focusing mostly on technique makes players a little frigid in terms of their movement. It's a valid point. Tom is a Brit (I think) so he may well subscribe to this theory.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Footwork and technical coaching, that is. I was thinking of separating the two aspects by starting footwork classes with keener juniors. Teaching footwork can be done effectively in small groups. I could teach six kids as easily and effectively as one kid. I could do this twice/three times a week. I could teach them all the footwork patterns and moves: mogul moves, crossovers, spin moves, pivot moves, etc. ...with luck it will all translate in to their game.

I wouldn't by any means abandon footwork in my individual lessons with kids, but you can only work on so much when you see them just one or two hours per week. Having separate classes for footwork makes sense. Isolating footwork will also make kids realise how important movement is.

Let me know what you think, don...any of you.

With footwork, I'm not sure how much is natural and how much is taught with regard to top flight players. I see very little footwork coaching going on in the UK...none at clubs...perhaps some at performance centres. In Spain footwork is taught widespread and is seen as THE key ingredient.

I haven't read the David Bailey article yet...will do so right now.

[tennis_chiro]

Don't have an answer!

I am not sure either party is right or wrong here. Should kids learn to move first or learn to set up and load correctly first? Is doing one before the other putting the head before the cart. There is a strong suspicion in the UK that focusing mostly on technique makes players a little frigid in terms of their movement. It's a valid point. Tom is a Brit (I think) so he may well subscribe to this theory.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Footwork and technical coaching, that is. I was thinking of separating the two aspects by starting footwork classes with keener juniors. Teaching footwork can be done effectively in small groups. I could teach six kids as easily and effectively as one kid. I could do this twice/three times a week. I could teach them all the footwork patterns and moves: mogul moves, crossovers, spin moves, pivot moves, etc. ...with luck it will all translate in to their game.

I wouldn't by any means abandon footwork in my individual lessons with kids, but you can only work on so much when you see them just one or two hours per week. Having separate classes for footwork makes sense. Isolating footwork will also make kids realise how important movement is.

Let me know what you think, don...any of you.

With footwork, I'm not sure how much is natural and how much is taught with regard to top flight players. I see very little footwork coaching going on in the UK...none at clubs...perhaps some at performance centres. In Spain footwork is taught widespread and is seen as THE key ingredient.

I haven't read the David Bailey article yet...will do so right now.

Stotty, I always appreciate your contributions. I think your idea about a footwork class is a great idea, if you have the kids and can get it to happen. My students travel a long way to see me just the once a week.

It sure seems like Spain is beating the pants off everyone with their emphasis on footwork. But I'm still not sure that Pato's double-rhythm footwork and all the emphasis on receiving the ball is the best way to go. Frankly, I don't see anyone playing the way I want to see someone play. I want to see someone with Safin's body type and Agassi's footwork and groundies but with Edberg's hunger to get in and the mobility of a Murray or Djokovic. Really, just a Djokovic with a little better grounding in his net play and transition play. Federer would seem to have been the ideal, but he was a little too willing to give up the serve-and-volley strategy and just doesn't seem as rock solid on the groundstrokes as the other members of the big 4. The way Haas played at Key Biscayne was as complete a game as I have seen anyone show in a long time. He didn't do it with any single unbelievable shot; it was the construction of a complete strategy that included more play at the net than we see in the current game with the possible exception of Llodra; and certainly more than anyone who could demonstrate the shot tolerance he repeatedly demonstrated in those matches with Djokovic, Simon and Ferrer. But I stray...

Of the top players footwork style, I like the economy of motion Federer achieves with his big steps. It's definitely not the double-rhythm.

You mention not wanting to tighten up the players with too much discipline and technique; seems like a legitimate concern. But then should we really be teaching all the different "contact moves" Bailey presents. At least Bailey presents the step down into the ball as one option.

I teach footwork, but in a much simpler format. Learn the right left right (last step is a plant with foot pointed to the side fence) move to cover the wide ball once we've gotten past rudimentary stroke development. Then I insist on setting up to hit the ball, if only for an instant. And then I push them faster and faster with my machines. I literally fire the next ball when the one they are hitting is just bouncing in front of them. They have to recover quickly and move immediately to the next ball. I reread Bailey's articles on "contact groundstroke moves" as well as the new one yesterday. I think it is great for helping someone who is stuck on how to deal with those particular situations, but I'd rather they develop their own style of dealing with them without me having to tell them exactly what to do. However, I do insist that, as much as possible, they set up and demonstrate good balance and come back into the shot and recover.

It just seems strange to me where the GBA has been so well embraced as opposed to more technique based approaches, that it is strange that we create such an intricate technique of how to move as long as we don't emphasize the classic principles we were all raised on.

As I said, I really don't have the answer.

don

[don_budge]

Thermodynamics and The Tango...Learning how to "Wing It".

I also want to point out I love what Tom is doing in his video analysis. I simply have a different point of view of where the greatest emphasis should be.

Basically, you can't get away from the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy Increases. That means disorder increases. If you start out at a certain level of orderliness, you will invariably descend to some lower order, unless some additional energy is put in to maintain or increase that level of order. If you start out with a stroke that is less than perfectly balanced under ideal conditions, when it is subjected to stress and pressure, it will not miraculously get better; it will degenerate and degrade. So we are better off trying to instill the highest order of "orderliness" initially so that when the stroke inevitably is subjected to stress and pressure, enough of the good elements of that "orderly" stroke remain to allow it to function. To put that Second Law into more colloquial terms: "S*#t happens!" and before you know it you are in the state described by the acronyms S.N.A.F.U. or F.U.B.A.R. and the player has to adjust and adapt.

First of all once again...thanks for sharing tpatennis. Fantastic new website and I wish you all of the luck in the world.

Couldn't have said it better myself...tennis_chiro. For all of you kids out there...someone has to give it to you straight:

SNAFU...Situation Normal All Fucked Up
FUBAR...Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition

Yeah...I have a little different point of view as well. Somebody must be trying to either make a living off of this footwork business or even better yet...trying to make a name for themselves. I think it is a pretty good angle too.

From my point of view my student will optimally create the three lines with their feet, hips and shoulders and racquet when they are in position to go forwards into the swing to the ball. The weight should transition into the front foot just as they meet the ball with their racquet or just before...otherwise they are “late” (disorder sets in). Get in position Sweetheart. Keep it simple stupid...KISS. Otherwise if they don't have time to create that "order" and "disorder" is creeping into the situation it boils down to "get your ass into position" and created two lines of the possible three...now you descend into getting the shoulders and racquet in line while trying to get the weight in a forwards position. Even this is not as simple as it sounds.

Actually right after I say get your ass in position (which is largely because that I like that way that it sounds) I also encourage getting the head into position...for the best balance possible. The rule of thumb being that there is an imaginary pole through the head and out of the rear and the player needs to swing around that influence...like a golfer. Unlike golf though...tennis players are not afforded that much time to get in position so they have to make due. Like Roger does...in “Forehand Not Gone”. Other than that...I recommend the tango, cha cha, salsa and street dancing.

Don...it is a perfect analogy using the second law of Thermodynamics. I just get a little miffed that I didn't think of that. It's perfect! It’s original! Great post...from my point of view. The things that tpatennis is telling that poor little six year old are way beyond the scope of reality in that little boys life right now. My goodness...just start the kid at the net with the simplest of footwork "patterns" and get him to perfect that. Step and volley. Always on the front foot...my little man. By the time he is old enough to shave he will have figured it out. He’ll have seen enough disorder to know...about shit happening. Entropy...in other words.

Get him to step and volley...with the racquet coming under the ball at the precise moment the foot is meeting mother earth...then work your way backwards to the baseline where the racquet is coming over the ball when the foot is meeting mother earth. Forget about the ATP Forehand nonsense...you can’t teach that to a kid. If anything that is a progression of thought after mastering the fundamentals. Once he is on the run...the tango, cha cha and salsa should eventually kick in with enough looks at a moving ball. Those patterns are way beyond the comprehension of the fragile eggshell mind of a kid and I am not even sure if they are FC (fundamentally correct).

You have got to teach your students to fly by the seat of their pants and how to "wing it" as my buddy Lenny and I used to call it when we were out on a midnight run. When order quickly descends into disorder around midnight. Teaching footwork patterns probably is good exercise but once the ball is in flight...my mind is only telling me "get your ass in position" and the rest of it is applesauce! You gotta be the ball. This is the problem with "rocket science" tennis...Ashley Brilliant had a postcard that read..."Let's organize this thing and take all of the fun out of it".

One obvious flaw with the "scientology of footwork" that is being passed around... is that nobody is even contemplating the possibility of moving forwards to the net. Ok...if they are it is merely an afterthought. Actually this is where I am starting the students these days. I start them off moving forwards and backwards to the net. Even the little tykes. Because when they get back to the baseline I want them to be moving as aggressively forwards as possible on any given ball but if they have to retreat they should be comfortable with that too. Most find it "bloody fun" to hit the ball in the air too! Volley...olè!

Footwork classes? You’ve got that much time on your hands? Send the kids out to play a couple of sets...eight days a week. It’s not enough...you know. To show you care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW1Wuk-mKMk

[bottle]

A great pair of posts. Guys, please stray all you want. It's not like writing for a print magazine where you CANNOT afford to do that. Which makes your comments since they come from knowledge and on-the-court worth about a thousand times more.

On footwork, I'm reading Don and Steve and Rip and Tom but see absolutely no need to delve into the subject with the more technical stuff that I know is out there at least right now.

It's really strange. (Here comes the possibly more self-serving part though that's not my intention.) There is a black guy at the club who keeps going out of his way to praise my movement each week. Last night: "I was watching you (we were on different courts)...you're really getting to the ball."

Surely this pretty good player must have noticed that I'm half-crippled. (I'm tall but nevertheless recommend that you lob over my head.) The strange thing is that I have been doing NOTHING but working on my new shots. And I get this unsolicited comment from the same guy every week.

Yes, shot production and movement are directly related. If you want to calm down an angry horse or get her into bed you just have to pull her head down.

[vrc10s]

footwork

I am of the opinion that footwork needs to be taught. I think it is somewhat like teaching shot selection and strategy. Start with the basics and then move to the more complex. I don't think you can just let it develope. I do teach lots of footwork for moving forward.

We start with the basics, hit and hold, with balance. When they are better we work on more advanced patterns. We also work on several recovery patterns.

[bottle]

But if you aren't ready eventually to get crazy with it (or if you prefer, "inspired"), you'll never pass mediocre.

Same thing with dance. First you learn the steps. Then you learn to let go.

You've got to bring this point into your teaching. Otherwise, you'll end up as a shop teacher rather than a master furniture maker.

Note: Jeff Salzenstein's free video today on galloping three-step lift and land forehand approach shot is thoroughly provocative and very good.

[vrc10s]

footwork

But if you aren't ready eventually to get crazy with it (or if you prefer, "inspired"), you'll never pass mediocre.

Same thing with dance. First you learn the steps. Then you learn to let go.

You've got to bring this point into your teaching. Otherwise, you'll end up as a shop teacher rather than a master furniture maker.

Note: Jeff Salzenstein's free video today on galloping three-step lift and land forehand approach shot is thoroughly provocative and very good.

I have seen Jeff in person a couple of times. I enjoy watching and listening to Jeff. He is very structured in his approach to footwork, start with this foot end with this foot, on this ball. I didn't always agree with him but it was interesting.

I watched the galloping three step video and I teach a similar foot work pattern, but we call it the left, left approach footwork.

[bottle]

"Galloping" would be better. A horse for some reason is a right brain image. Think of yourself as a small ancestor horse, a three-toed eohippus with a sabre tooth tiger about to catch you if you DON'T keep your momentum galloping into the net. Sensuous language could be the real issue for a coach in any sport. I know that when I was a rowing writer between the time when I was a college oarsman and a college coach I went around visiting different programs to collect "kinesthetic cues." What is the language, sometimes ordinary but most often not, that immediately mainlines itself into the nerves yet gets remembered? Or can some people just remember some move without naming it? Why was "carioca step" a good example of tennis language whether one uses one on an approach to the forehand or not? Why are so many people in these posts currently thinking about "patting the dog" or now "tapping the dog?" I don't know about you, but for me if something is too dry or schematic it might work the first time but is less likely to stay with me. And rich language is never going to hurt anybody. (I believe the beautiful movie star Liv Ullman, who was married for a pretty long time to the film writer, director and stage person Ingmar Bergman, said the same thing about sex.)

[GeoffWilliams]

Galloping sex, or rich sex never hurt anybody? I beg to differ on that one!

[bottle]

Yeah, well, me, too, and I stay away from both Sweden and Hungary these days, but I love that Liv Ullman said that. Her exact quote in English, which might carry implicit reservation since it's a double negative: "Sex never hurt nobody."

[tntenniswhiz]

I cannot tell you guys how excited I am to discover this thread! So much here that I both agree and disagree with. I've made an entry on my calendar tomorrow just that I can reread and then engage this wonderful conversation. It's my hope to be able to somehow add to this very healthy discussion!

This is the link to the other thread:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=21196&posted=1#post21196

I also want to point out I love what Tom is doing in his video analysis. I simply have a different point of view of where the greatest emphasis should be.


Here is my post #14 from that thread:


This is a great thread, but I think the heart of the question is much deeper than whether the style of footwork advocated in the Swedish video clips is appropriate of not. I don't think so many optional footwork patterns should be "taught". As I understand it, David Bailey's work came out of his many years of working with players at the Bollettierri Academy in Bradenton. But I doubt if anyone ever taught Andre Agassi or Pete Sampras a "mogul" footwork move. Probably early on in his development, Robert Lansdorp taught Pete to set his plant foot down pointed to the side fence, but I would bet he taught him to set up as early as possible to hit the ball from a balanced platform and then simply marveled that Pete could hit the ball so well even when he wasn't on the ground. (Hey John, could you ask Robert?!) I do know from meeting him and talking to him that he is very proud of how tough he would feed balls to his students. For me, while he may not have been the fastest player on the court, Andre has the best footwork in recent memory. I doubt very much that his dad ever taught him any of these compensating moves for adjusting to hit the ball off balance. His adjustment was to play the ball on the rise if he had to, but he almost always had his feet set beautifully.

The best movement on the court in today's game belongs to the Fab Four, with Djokovic probably the best of the group. Jelena Gencic was a career tennis coach who may have adopted specific patterns in teaching Novak, but I really doubt she ever "taught" him how to hit a ball when he was unable to get in position, at least not with a specific footwork pattern. And I can not for the life of me imagine Niki Pilic doing anything like that. Andy Murray finished his development as a teenager under the tutelage of Pato Alvarez at the Casal-Sanchez Academy in Spain, but the movement he exhibits when he covers the court with his unbelievable range seems to me to have little to do with Pato's V-shape double-rhythm footwork pattern. (Martin Balbridge's piece on the Spanish coaching system , cited below, is a great read.) Federer is characterized by his long strides as the opposite of the shuffle steps that Rafa seems to employ much more in the vein of the double-rhythm pattern. Just outside that Fab Four, Ferrer does indeed seem to employ that double-rhythm footwork pattern. No question, it works! But is it the best way to go? I'm not so sure; in fact, I don't think so. It certainly is a simple system that works. But again, I don't think that system teaches you how to put your feet down in all these crazy compensating patterns. The movement drills create situations where the player has to adjust and adapt his footwork to play the ball, but I doubt very much they are working like choreographers learning different steps. I think Stotty is very much on the money when he brings up the point that the first step is in your mind. I'm going to add that it better be connected to the racket head.

I don't think Larissa Preobrazhenskaya, when she was training Dementieva, Safina or Myskina and having them go through her disciplined stroking drills to learn their initial movement patterns, was having these future champions practice hitting the ball compensating for not getting in position in time. On the contrary, they didn't have the chance to hit as many balls as other kids, but they got very disciplined, balanced initial stroking mechanics down pat before they even got to play in any kind of competition.

Basically, you can't get away from the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy Increases. That means disorder increases. If you start out at a certain level of orderliness, you will invariably descend to some lower order, unless some additional energy is put in to maintain or increase that level of order. If you start out with a stroke that is less than perfectly balanced under ideal conditions, when it is subjected to stress and pressure, it will not miraculously get better; it will degenerate and degrade. So we are better off trying to instill the highest order of "orderliness" initially so that when the stroke inevitably is subjected to stress and pressure, enough of the good elements of that "orderly" stroke remain to allow it to function. To put that Second Law into more colloquial terms: "S*#t happens!" and before you know it you are in the state described by the acronyms S.N.A.F.U. or F.U.B.A.R. and the player has to adjust and adapt. The point I was trying to make to Tom Alsopp (please see his thread: http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...1189#post21189) is that I want to focus the initial habits of my young players as close as possible on the ideal (footwork like Agassi) and give them as high a level of "orderliness" from which they will naturally descend in the heat of competition and pressure.

When I saw how well they were hitting the ball from the point of view of classical footwork, preparation and balance in the heated exchanges of the Australian Open final, it just confirmed that belief for me. Of course they hit a lot of balls on the move and from compensated and adapted positions, but it is amazing how much of the time they were able to get into great position to hit the ball even though it was traveling into corners at over 80 mph.

I'm hoping this thread and Tom Allsopp's thread continue and we get a little more discussion here. Below are some of the links to references in my post.

I really think we need to spend more time examining the process that players like Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Sampras, etc went through to develop into the players they became. And I mean details of how many hours of instruction, practice, match practice and tournament practice they had at each stage of their careers, down to day to day training schedules and tournament schedules. I've been in the business (counting when I became a ballboy for lessons) for 50 years, and I can't find satisfactory information describing the journeys those kind of players took. It would be a great resource and I would think it would be something that those players would be glad to contribute to further the game.

don

Tom Allsopp's thread:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=21189#post21189

Spartak Tennis Club: Larisa Preobrazhenskaya

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/sports/playmagazine/04play-talent.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Pato Alvarez's Spanish coaching system by Martin Balbridge

http://www.soyouwanttowinwimbledon.com/TG%20INSIDE%20THE%20SPANISH%20COACHNG%20SYSTEM.pdf

"forward and backward V-shape using the double-rhythm footwork pattern"

Jelena Gencic(also coached Seles and Ivanisevic) or Niki Pilic with Djokovic

http://novakdjokovic.com/en/novak-djokovic/

pictures of Jelena hitting with young Novak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_3zzqReZg

[bottle]

Lisa Stone's Earth Day Interview of Tom on UR10s Radio

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ur10snetwork/2013/04/22/parenting-aces

It’s so nice to see or rather hear new ALTA-related intelligence come to the airwaves from Marietta, Georgia.

Tom Allsopp, with his great emphasis on dialectic and student decision-making, is the opposite of command style education (or non-education) in the game.

Some would say he is the opposite too of people such as myself who are endlessly intrigued with the mechanics of players we all agree are great.

That might not be fair either to Tom or to myself, however, since he was one of the first to recognize, from my own writing, the fun of swinging a racket around in always differing ways to possibly destroy lamps or cause a re-painting of the ceiling of one’s girlfriend’s living room.

Through his websites tpatennis.com and tpatennis.net and with his expanded reach into “virtual” communication even at the consultant’s level, he builds tennis players into human beings rather than reducing them to worms.

The radio program, with significant insights into tennis parenting, is here, so anyone can listen to it without me telling them what’s in it.

I point however to notions such as, “The swing is not the goal,” “You don’t teach a kid to walk,” “Students are not encouraged to make decisions” (a withering criticism), “Force your opponent to hit tough shots,” “No crawling over the finish line,” “Help the student find their own learning zone,” and “I want to hear from you” (as imperative for two-way communication).