Developing an ATP Style Forehand: Part 1

[gordonp]

Mr. gordonp:

You say McEnroe showed you what he does with his wrist for forehand topspin with his continental grip, but nobody was curious enough to ask "What?".

Well, I am. What?

Thanks!

Hi Bottle,

He showed me how he rolled his wrist to create spin. I checked out the first forehand video on tennisplayer with McEnroe. If you start at the beginning and hit the arrow key it occurs at frame 37 to 38. At frame 37, you see McEnroe's palm and fingers, the next frame it appears he rolled his wrist. I believe that was what he talked about. I tried it the next day but couldn't do it.
Please understand this interview happened many years ago I never expected John to take his racket out of his bag and demonstrate it. I was taken aback. We had just finished a twenty minute one on one interview and he was still dressed in his towel. I knew he wanted to get out of there.
I thought of asking more questions but that wasn't the reason I was in the lockerroom so I stopped myself. It was my first interview with a pro athlete. I will say John was genuine and engaged in our conversation.
In regards to an earlier comment, the continental and Eastern forehand grips were standard at the time at Port Washington but the game was beginning to change and evolve into today's ATP forehand.
I wonder if new equipment (strings and rackets) had more to do with the demise of the continental forehand than anything else.

[gokulms]

......
Are the women harder to convince or do they take racket back from ''pet the dog position'' because as Rick addressed to get more power because they feel they aren't as strong,
.......

I think this is very true. I am currently hitting with my 6 year old son and I hear the same reasoning. While playing from the service line he is fine with elbow high and racquet farther.., but while hitting from the baseline he switches to elbow tucked and racquet straight back.. Why? Says " then only I can hit deeper, no? "...

[bottle]

Happy Easter. Allelulia and go go go.

Not to disparage gokulm's post, which I find very interesting (and self-standing!) and applicable to learning or teaching an ATP forehand now within the reach of everybody, but gordonp: I think you should try John McEnroe's wrist action in a continental forehand again and make it work this time.

I got up the clip:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_forehand/mac_forehand.html?MacFHCenterFront.mov

I shut my eyes and pushed the right arrow 37 times per your instruction.

Now, what's wrist doing-- at contact?

It's moving, right, but how? And in what direction? And the arm is rolling a little. In fact, if you measured out-- in roughly equal amounts-- the arm roll and the wrist laying back, the two would almost cancel each other out to preserve the original pitch of John McEnroe's zombie arm swing but maybe come over the ball just a bit.

Am I wrong? And isn't this exploration more fun than asking if the novel, the continental forehand and God are dead? Those are hackneyed subjects that usually lead to dull conversation.

Your answer in # 31, gordonp, for which I'm very grateful, has made the question I asked more real even for me.

Goal: to solve a little bit of mystery very likely to be clouded by myth, i.e., John McEnroe's hands are so special, he's such a genius, nothing he does could ever apply to the ordinary you or me.

Maybe, but on the other hand he founded a tennis school. So he must believe in education and communication as true possibility.

Moreover, he wished to make something technical clear way back in that locker room, in unguarded and spontaneous enthusiasm-- a time to trust some source the most?

I always wonder, in cases like this: What if the great man doesn't inhabit some other planet but is rather being more simple and straightforward than the rest of us?

Because the McEnroe forehand has fewer things about it to go wrong than most of the forehands we ever see or model.

To be sure, what parts there are must be in perfect order, and something other than wrist could be causing one's McEnroe imitation to go wrong.

Let's check a few more videos to see if this backward giving wrist idea can persist, and if so, can one appropriate it as part of one's personal arsenal?

[stotty]

Arm

It's arm, not wrist...no wrist lag equals no wrist. Mac had the most minimal wrist lag possible. Whatever Mac thought he was doing with his wrist...he wasn't. He used precious little topspin anyway.

[bottle]

Nice Shot, Rip

Which makes me want to answer with one of my own. Think I'll call it, "Authorize yourself to be dumb." As in "Watch the forehand backswing of John McEnroe a thousand times and think the racket stops to go forward." That may or may not be true some of the time, but in the videos I've been clicking on recently, the racket goes sideways at the top downward toward the inside. Down and up, sideways, forward-- a gentle roller coaster for very small kids.

Hmmm. This thread is supposed to be "Developing the ATP Style Forehand: Part One." But on Easter day how much play did the Tennis Channel give to the ATP forehand? Well, every time the ad for Tennis Player came on and John Yandell's head filled the screen.

Most of the time however the screen was filled by John McEnroe playing another match in the PowerShares Tour of last year. Not that I watched the boob tube all day on Easter-- in fact, I'd seen those matches before. But I checked in one or two times to see what was happening. All John McEnroe getting to another final even when Pat or Andre or Jim got by him. These inconsistent outcomes are more like baseball!

Very hard to get away from John McEnroe these days. Geoffrey Williams (like the other angry stringers) must be going out of his mind.

Note for gordonp. Make sure to see don_budge today in the "My Thoughts on the McEnroe Forehand."

[don_budge]

Kids...and intuition.

I think this is very true. I am currently hitting with my 6 year old son and I hear the same reasoning. While playing from the service line he is fine with elbow high and racquet farther.., but while hitting from the baseline he switches to elbow tucked and racquet straight back.. Why? Says " then only I can hit deeper, no? "...

Interesting stuff...gokulms. Kids just seem to have a knack for figuring stuff out...to a certain point. For instance...your son's body is telling him which way to go and I think he is right. I don't like that elbow up position at all. Certainly not for someone who is not strong enough to pull it off.

Think about this...start your son off at the net and teach him how to volley then work him backwards to the baseline. Once he is back on the baseline...work him forwards again. Work him forwards and backwards as well as side to side. You will find that his strokes will find a different groove than the standard ATP issue. At the net he should be playing with a very neutral grip and as he moves back he can strengthen it to maximum strong eastern. That way he is being introduced to the forecourt and net as well.

At the net he can start with a two handed backhand volley but eventually weaned off the other hand and then he will be on his way to learning a sound backhand slice with the possibility of converting to one handed somewhere down the line. Don't look at it as results now...think development. When he is big and strong enough he will be playing the all court version of tennis the way it was meant to be played.

See how Tommy Haas has been faring as of late...and he is technically over the hill. But his style of play is conducive to wreaking havoc over the conventional shock and awe tennis being played today at the professional level. One of the things that I don't care for in the standard issue to the game today is the lack of flexibility in the stroke...you never see players playing the all court game with that swing. Even Federer is seemingly challenged in the forecourt and at the net and his range of approach shots seem to be limited by his grip and swing. I cringe every time I see him approach to Nadal, Djokovic and Murray with topspin...he plays right into their strength. Tommy on the other hand has a sound game plan using underspin, sidespin and variation in depth when he is playing the forecourt.

By the time your son is competing at the junior level he will be truly developing into an all court player and not just some one dimensional robot. He won't find tennis so boring through the years. He will be something of an anomaly and the others will have a difficult time trying to match his style with theirs. He on the other hand will not have that problem since all the rest play the same way.