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Interactive Forum March 2013: Forehand Timing: Grigor Dimitrov

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  • Interactive Forum March 2013: Forehand Timing: Grigor Dimitrov

    Forehand Timing: Grigor Dimitrov

    This incredible clip not only shows a high quality technical forehand hit by emerging star Grigor Dimitrov, it shows critical elements of timing that are often misunderstood or ignored by players at all levels, and even coaches.

    Shot at 120 frames per second, this clip allows us to accurately measure time intervals by counting the individual frames. What that shows is that from the time of the opponent's return, Dimtrov (and this is true across the men's game) has only around one second to reach his forehand contact point.

    That's fast- wouldn't you say-and interestingly even in club tennis the interval is still quite short--maybe 1.5 seconds on average or even less. So note how with his hands on his racket, he immediate starts to turn his body. The hands separate when the ball crosses to his side, and the left arm stretches across and points at the sideline at the moment the ball bounces on the court. That's awesome preparation.

    It's sometimes argued that "early preparation" is a mistake because you have "so much time" after the bounce. That's crazy. Count it for yourself and see Grigor has only about 3/10s of a second. Try executing your stroke in that interval. Grigor's outward swing is a thing of beauty as well, but note well: start the preparation by turning as soon as your opponent hits--and stretch your left arm at the bounce!

    And now your additional analysis and comments please!

    Last edited by johnyandell; 07-01-2016, 10:11 AM.

  • #2
    Quicktime version

    Forehand Timing: Grigor Dimitrov

    Last edited by johnyandell; 07-01-2016, 10:12 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      You are talking about rhythm, not timing!

      Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
      Forehand Timing: Grigor Dimitrov

      This incredible clip not only shows a high quality technical forehand hit by emerging star Grigor Dimitrov, it shows critical elements of timing that are often misunderstood or ignored by players at all levels, and even coaches.

      Shot at 120 frames per second, this clip allows us to accurately measure time intervals by counting the individual frames. What that shows is that from the time of the opponent's return, Dimtrov (and this is true across the men's game) has only around one second to reach his forehand contact point.

      That's fast- wouldn't you say-and interestingly even in club tennis the interval is still quite short--maybe 1.5 seconds on average or even less. So note how with his hands on his racket, he immediate starts to turn his body. The hands separate when the ball crosses to his side, and the left arm stretches across and points at the sideline at the moment the ball bounces on the court. That's awesome preparation.

      It's sometimes argued that "early preparation" is a mistake because you have "so much time" after the bounce. That's crazy. Count it for yourself and see Grigor has only about 3/10s of a second. Try executing your stroke in that interval. Grigor's outward swing is a thing of beauty as well, but note well: start the preparation by turning as soon as your opponent hits--and stretch your left arm at the bounce!

      And now your additional analysis and comments please!

      If that ball was really deep bouncing within a foot of the baseline instead of halfway between the service line and the baseline, Dimitrov would have a lot less time after the bounce and probably not enough. To be able to play such a deep ball properly, he would need to start that move even before the ball bounced, even before the ball reached the point where it is bouncing in the clip, because the ball would travel much faster that extra 6 or 7 feet through the air without losing 40% of its speed at the bounce. If he plays with real timing, his eyes tell him when to start that move with his left hand based on where the ball is and when it will arrive at his projected contact point, regardless of where it bounces. Otherwise, the deep ball will force him to take a much faster swing or a greatly altered swing to handle the reduced time he has to make that swing. When Agassi was taking those full swings on deep balls, he was not waiting for the ball to bounce to start his swing; he was starting his action when his eyes told him it was time; thus he could choose the speed with which he hit his shots, even the ones at his feet. On the other hand, if the ball was short, he should wait a little longer or he would lose all the benefit of the SSC when he has to stop his swing to wait for the ball to reach him if he started his action on the bounce of a short ball.

      Stretch that non-dominant arm when your eyes tell you it is time, not later, not earlier and regardless of where the ball bounces. It's wonderful to play with rhythm ... if your opponent lets you. But if you are lulled into playing the bounce, your opponent can take that rhythm away from you any time he wants to. If you find someone playing with rhythm, let them have that luxury, ... until you need the point. Then take it away with a little shorter or deeper ball, a little underspin or a little more topspin. They will walk away thinking they just "couldn't get their timing down" for that match. But they never had timing, just rhythm.

      Don't play the bounce; play the ball!!

      don, speaking for Jerry Alleyne
      Last edited by johnyandell; 07-01-2016, 10:12 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Who is Jerry?

        Comment


        • #5
          Jerry Alleyne

          Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
          Who is Jerry?
          Jerry Alleyne was my coach in Hastings-on-the-Hudson in NY. He was actually the first black man to play in the US Nationals at Forest Hills in the 1950's. Famous coach in NYC. Before WWII, he was a top junior, but had to go to South America to get to play. He had an unbelieveable following of people from NYC who would come up to see him for their tennis lessons. He loved to teach and was definitely the best teacher I ever saw and one of the brightest individuals. He changed not just people's tennis games, but their whole lives. He died in 1997. He taught me about timing and rhythm. I believe he was a student of Mercer Beasley. Not sure about that.

          don

          Comment


          • #6
            The similarity to Federer is unbelievable. He has a pretty damn good forehand, I don't believe it's as good or as explosive as Federer's but technically it's pretty similar in terms of preparation and backswing. Would love to see more clips of all of Dimitrov's strokes in the future. They're all very pleasing to the eye.

            I really can't wait for this months edition! So excited!

            Comment


            • #7
              Don,

              I actually agree in theory with your point and, as the articles you did a while ago demonstrate, there are some small differences in the timing of the stretch. At high levels remember we are talking about a second to prepare and reach the contact, so it is fractional.

              But for 99.99% of the people I see preparation (as Rick points out this month) is a horrendous problem. That's why I believe in this checkpoint so strongly as a teaching key and have seen it literally work miracles...

              Better to be a little early than a little late. Better yet to have the perfect rhythm of someone like Roger...

              Best,
              John

              Comment


              • #8
                Voltaire on Tennisplayer!!

                Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
                Don,

                I actually agree in theory with your point and, as the articles you did a while ago demonstrate, there are some small differences in the timing of the stretch. At high levels remember we are talking about a second to prepare and reach the contact, so it is fractional.

                But for 99.99% of the people I see preparation (as Rick points out this month) is a horrendous problem. That's why I believe in this checkpoint so strongly as a teaching key and have seen it literally work miracles...

                Better to be a little early than a little late. Better yet to have the perfect rhythm of someone like Roger...

                Best,
                John
                Indeed, John,
                Let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good!



                After all it's the journey of improvement that keeps us on the road even though we can never actually reach the destination.

                don

                Comment


                • #9
                  Don, Uh I think we are agreeing on this.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wish i could see these videos like everyone else, but they are not loading at my end.
                    Last edited by johnyandell; 04-12-2013, 06:37 PM.
                    Stotty

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Which videos?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
                        Which videos?
                        Both the Dimitrov videos aren't loading my end. I just get a white blank square in the viewer...no videos will load and run.
                        Stotty

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Give it a wait... or go to a coffee shot...find a different connection...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            no vids

                            I too am getting no videos, not in Safari, Firefox or Chrome. From the way you and Don are talking about them, though, they sure sound good!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pc

                              It does NOT work for me today Saturday
                              I am on a PC with Firefox
                              I am in the directory

                              It worked for me when the new issue started-March 6?
                              Next I did see couple of videos of Macci
                              Next I came back to the video of Dimitrov
                              It stopped working
                              Last edited by julian1; 03-09-2013, 04:32 AM.

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