Gulbis...what's going on!!

[bottle]

Gulbis was a better sport in the Haas match, and we SHOULD notice these things. As to the forehand, I think I've received exposure to the ungainly and mechanistic early straightening of the arm routine in THE TENNIS TECHNIQUE BIBLE: VOLUME ONE though I don't think Chris Lewit ever advanced the idea in his Tennis Player articles.

I tried big straight arm right after unit turn and pointing or even as part of these actions-- worked a bit in producing extra spin for a while but I came not to like it.

Watching Lendl again with his needling elbow lead last night (Tennis Channel world tennis day coverage) and McEnroe with his simple bowl makes one aware of a few of the more organic possibilities in forehand preparation.

The Laver and Navratilova backswings seem really cool to me-- more similar to McEnroe than first thought but are simply more continuous than his.

He makes a loop, too. It's just that there's a pause in it. Which he uses to great effect.

We can talk about different grips here if we insist. Just on the surface of things, though, a lower register loop seems more organic and shrewd since it leads to lower center of gravity with good balance.

[DougEng]

Yes he did. my last post was before the final.

Interesting week of tennis in Delray Beach to say the least.

Despite the atrocities of Gulbis' new forehand, no one was really able to break it down over the course of a 3 set match. Congrats to Gulbis.

I don't think we've seen the final product from Gulbis' forehand yet. Speaking with a few coaches at the event that have ties to the ATP Tour, they mentioned it was still a work in progress. This forehand is simply a "stage" of a final product. The forehand we've seen this year may not be what we see next year or 6 months from now. Interesting.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Even more interesting! I wonder if the coaches meant, "we don't have a final product in mind." Usually I find most talented players can make quick changes on groundstrokes and make them basically automatic. There are exceptions, however (Rosewall's backhand slice was notorious) and particularly on the serve. That is, the talent of the player allows them to do different things which most of us can't do. I'll bet he stick with this for a while and maybe add 1-2 small things until it fails. Given he won this event (for the second time), it gives him confidence that he is heading in the right direction (whether it is technically true or not) and he is less likely to change it.

But then when he hits a wall or a loss in confidence, he might be amendable to changes. On the other hand, given his inconsistent personality, he might be changing it sooner rather than later. Allen Fox could comment there. That is, if he loses in the early rounds in a couple big ones (Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo). Now he's back at #67 he can bypass the qualies. Perhaps Gulbis can hit 31 different forehands to beat out Federer's magic number. And perhaps 10 will be good for him.

But it does definitely show technique is not everything.

[stotty]

I see Gulbis had a right old ding dong with Nadal, losing in a tight three setter. I didn't see the game, as it happened in the early hours of the morning over here in the UK.

Maybe Klacr is right about the reinvented forehand of Gulbis...if it works...horrible though it looks...why not.

Did anyone see the game?

[DougEng]

I see Gulbis had a right old ding dong with Nadal, losing in a tight three setter. I didn't see the game, as it happened in the early hours of the morning over here in the UK.

Maybe Klacr is right about the reinvented forehand of Gulbis...if it works...horrible though it looks...why not.

Did anyone see the game?

The forehand broke down. Commentators picked up on the new style. So did Johan Kriek on facebook. And commentators also noted it broke down.

Ernest made 5 unforced FH errors just rallying in the last maybe 15 points on the forehand. 2 long in the last game and therefore just tight and maybe 3 into the net trying to go for extra from behind the baseline (not smart choices).

Early on, the FH was fairly good as well as serving. It could be a little fatigue on the FH trying to stay long with Nadal. But most likely just tightness in the last 2-3 games.

His movement was great, though, no one commented on that. But I think he may be working a bit harder off-court. He kept up with Nadal. So up to the last point, he was still running hard and staying with Nadal especially on the BH side.

Unfortunately this might convince him to stay with the forehand but hopefully it will be re-tweaked a bit. It's not really the flying left hand that I question since that might help redistribute loading and more consistency. It is, however, the size of the backswing and ability to keep timing and pace. If he shortens the backswing slightly with a lower backswing (like Federer) he might do better.

[vrc10s]

Gulbis

I see Gulbis had a right old ding dong with Nadal, losing in a tight three setter. I didn't see the game, as it happened in the early hours of the morning over here in the UK.

Maybe Klacr is right about the reinvented forehand of Gulbis...if it works...horrible though it looks...why not.

Did anyone see the game?

I saw most of the match and it was interesting.

Gulbis was moving well and played a lot to Nadal's forehand, setting up cross court rallies into his backhand. Gubis did well in this diagonal.

Gubis did seem tight at the end.

[johnyandell]

I haven't been following this thread BUT we will have a new forehand clip of the "swim" forehand next month...

[klacr]

My apologies for being AWOL. Work and life have a tendency to do that sometimes.

In regards to the Gulbis FH, if you can get past the aesthetics of it, he is hitting better than his old one. Some may disagree but based on consistency, it is better. His old one was nicer looking but incredible wild with end result. The new one allows him to be more consistent, which let's face it, is kinda important, more than hitting the cover off the ball and not knowing where it will land.

Glad to see John is giving us a clip of the "swim" forehand next month. I like the tease.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca raton

[johnyandell]

But yet even without the billions you are still a head case...Geoff, just teasing man.

[julian1]

Cahill agrees with you

My apologies for being AWOL. Work and life have a tendency to do that sometimes.

In regards to the Gulbis FH, if you can get past the aesthetics of it, he is hitting better than his old one. Some may disagree but based on consistency, it is better. His old one was nicer looking but incredible wild with end result. The new one allows him to be more consistent, which let's face it, is kind important, more than hitting the cover off the ball and not knowing where it will land.

Glad to see John is giving us a clip of the "swim" forehand next month. I like the tease.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca raton

Cahill agrees with you

[klacr]

Cahill agrees with you

Good to know. Even if he didn't agree with me, Cahill is a great guy.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Tennisplayer analysis of Gulbis's "swim" forehand.

I haven't been following this thread BUT we will have a new forehand clip of the "swim" forehand next month...

Good move, it's become major gossip on the tennis tour apparently...just remember you heard it from Stotty first.

Analysis on Tennisplayer would seem appropriate for this eccentric, mad looking shot.

[DougEng]

oops!

Yes, we have this thread...but an article was posted by a friend on another site regarding Gulbis. It's most on forehand but also on backhand. It suggests that he went from the compact swing to more of the loop swing. I actually just made the same change for a HS girl this week. She did the exact same old thing as Gulbis and I now make her do the exact same new thing! Eerie. The writer points out Gulbis' change.

But a good deal I think it's the point I was making...belief system vs technical change. Kyle was also hitting on that.

Just another point that it seems everyone missed on Gulbis. Right now, I'll keep it confidential since I'd like to confirm it with deeper analysis (I'm not sure if it is possible) comparing his older FH to the new one. I just noticed it. And the new FH has an obvious advantage if it is being done consistently. Different from what we were discussing.

[julian1]

ssc is "better"

Yes, we have this thread...but an article was posted by a friend on another site regarding Gulbis. It's most on forehand but also on backhand. It suggests that he went from the compact swing to more of the loop swing. I actually just made the same change for a HS girl this week. She did the exact same old thing as Gulbis and I now make her do the exact same new thing! Eerie. The writer points out Gulbis' change.

But a good deal I think it's the point I was making...belief system vs technical change. Kyle was also hitting on that.

Just another point that it seems everyone missed on Gulbis. Right now, I'll keep it confidential since I'd like to confirm it with deeper analysis (I'm not sure if it is possible) comparing his older FH to the new one. I just noticed it. And the new FH has an obvious advantage if it is being done consistently. Different from what we were discussing.

ssc is "better" for a new forehand
an arm is straighter

[klacr]

Yes, we have this thread...but an article was posted by a friend on another site regarding Gulbis. It's most on forehand but also on backhand. It suggests that he went from the compact swing to more of the loop swing. I actually just made the same change for a HS girl this week. She did the exact same old thing as Gulbis and I now make her do the exact same new thing! Eerie. The writer points out Gulbis' change.

But a good deal I think it's the point I was making...belief system vs technical change. Kyle was also hitting on that.

Just another point that it seems everyone missed on Gulbis. Right now, I'll keep it confidential since I'd like to confirm it with deeper analysis (I'm not sure if it is possible) comparing his older FH to the new one. I just noticed it. And the new FH has an obvious advantage if it is being done consistently. Different from what we were discussing.

Great insights Doug. Would love to hear about the advantage of this new Gulbis FH. I was hoping I could see Gulbis again in Key Biscayne for Sony Open but sadly he didn't play. It will also be interesting to see any transformation that may or may not take place with this new stroke. He's had good results so maybe it'll stick.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Old/new

Here is his old forehand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJG00aKsvDg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyb5iUEXTyg

Here is his new forehand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmixYOD5q04

I find his old forehand a little cramped. I'm not sure the upper arm and shoulder pull back/rotate enough. He seems to lift/hitch the hitting shoulder up then back at the end of the backswing. His elbow stays very bent from start through to the finish of the stroke. It's cramped...very cramped...looks to be shoving the ball sometimes.

But I still don't see any clear advantage in the reworked forehand over the old one other than on perhaps slower, higher balls. That left arm "swimming" like that seems to be an unbalancing feature...just plain wrong. The right arm tries to do the opposite of what it did in the old forehand...by straightening out...still very double bend on contact, though. But he does get the more opened out backswing with his reworked forehand...perhaps more velocity...hard to tell without sitting down for an hour or two and comparing his old matches with his recent ones.