Gulbis...what's going on!!

[julian1]

Can someone help with Swedish/German ? here?

If that's the only negative conclusion Arias came to, Gulbis got off lightly. A big swing looks like the least of his problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RNNB4PENnkw

Couple of comments about a video above:
1.the wrist extension is obvious
2.the left hand looks a bit better comparing to other videos posted in this thread
but I am NOT sure whether the LEFT HAND is a major issue here
3.transfer of weight is there
4.a flip is there-it shows how broad the definition of a flip can be
5.probably the Internet allows to find a translator of a voice but
I have some problems finding an "automatic translator"

[stotty]

I was watching the match and doing three other things at the same time
so I am NOT sure whether it was THE ONLY comment
Switching gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmixYOD5q04

with the full screen option is a good quality video of Gulbis.
In the case of the link above
1.you can stop using a mouse
2.you can go by arrows on a LAPTOP

Thanks so much for this. Thanks for tips 1 and 2 also...didn't know about these features.

[julian1]

It works to some extent

Thanks so much for this. Thanks for tips 1 and 2 also...didn't know about these features.

It works to some extent in the following sense:
1.It was introduced by YouTube lately
so maybe it works for some videos posted there LATELY
2.Sometimes one has to push,say the RIGHT ARROW MULTIPLE times
to get it working.
I have a laptop running Windows and it works there.

[julian1]

Contact point well

If that's the only negative conclusion Arias came to, Gulbis got off lightly. A big swing looks like the least of his problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aet4r3ugbc&list=PL98B11E6B80398DFE&index=1

shows a contact point
Go by arrows and stop at the time stamp denoted by 0:14/0:19
I assume it is the NEW FOREHAND of Gulbis

[julian1]

Principles of physics/mechanics

If that's the only negative conclusion Arias came to, Gulbis got off lightly. A big swing looks like the least of his problems.

1.Ssc (or three of them) are visible
2.The motion is aerodynamic ( a SMALL crossection for air resistance

[DougEng]

Gulbis, Coaching

I looked at the thread Julian suggested. Lots of mediocre advice people are getting and giving there. Somewhat outdated teaching (catch the racquet, freeze at end, etc). Nick Saviano would probably drop his jaws at this. I never teach that since it forces the player to decelerate too early and limits natural shoulder rotation. There is a video of Gulbis receiving old school advice. This is coaching from an earlier era (catching and freezing) since it today's game it has no place (movement is essential, tennis is not golf). The funny part is that someone says this is his new stroke he is learning. But any good eye can see it's not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RNNB4PENnkw

However, given that, half of coaching is whether the player believes in the coach and if the player believes in the stroke. At that level, it is equally about physical conditioning and mental fortitude. Strokes don't matter as much. There are plenty of players ranked much lower with cleaner strokes but 1) they are not as strong, 2) they are not as quick, 3) they are not as tough mentally, 4) they have worst tactics/strategy, or 5) they have poorer awareness (court and self). Even a player ranked 200 in the world may have better strokes than better players but due to usually inexperience/confidence and tactical/awareness, they are ranked lower. The best players can use terrible strokes and even their opposite hand and still beat regular open division players.

Like John McEnroe once said, there's thousands of players with better strokes than him.

I doubt a coach who taught either stroke is really that helpful. Someone on the post mentioned the coach has the courage to change Gulbis. Maybe. But maybe it is also ignorance. Regardless, Gulbis believes in the coach and the stroke. Like the Emperor's New Clothes. But if Gulbis can run out there naked and win, all the power to him.

Given that, the technique shown in that clip is not his new stroke which is below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmixYOD5q04

Arias is correct. The backswing is too large. He totally straightens his arm, a bit like the old Nadal serve. It is not a Type 3 swing since it is also missing a flip. Keep in mind, that the flip is slightly delayed -- even moving backwards despite forward hip movement -- for a pre-stretch and downwards rotation. Gulbis tries to rotate the racquet downwards but it is a minimal flip. That is due to the large backswing which reduces time to hit.

The stroke, I doubt is bigger than his old stroke but he might get more spin and consistency in the short run. You can see how much he rotates and goes up and over with a wiper stroke which indicates heavy spin. If facing some of the top offensive players, I think this stroke could break down. I don't think it will work against a Del Potro or Federer, he won't have the time. In addition, this stroke could work on clay courts which give him the time to set up this way.

There are always odd strokes or habits in tennis, which despite, the player survives. Take the case of Francoise Durr...or today to less extremes, Marion Bartoli, or even John McEnroe. Even Nadal isn't perfect. One can question how Roberta Vinci survives with only a slice backhand (the rest of her game is tremendous...and although she doesn't hit the backhand for many winners, she doesn't miss much). Given a typical pro match that might run like: 9 FH winners, 4 BH winners, 11 FH errors, 6 BH errors. If Vinci goes 1 BH winner and 2 errors, it's not much difference than other players, and she can get to the net more which is a greater factor for winning.

As long as there's confidence, contact and consistency.

[DougEng]

1.Ssc (or three of them) are visible
2.The motion is aerodynamic ( a SMALL crossection for air resistance

Not sure what this means, Julian? Air resistance isn't a major factor.
I don't think it is aerodynamic but that is a negligible factor.

However, stroke efficiency (energy) could be an issue.
Like remember Gabriela Sabatini? She ran out of gas frequently with those beautiful but exhausting full strokes.

In addition, you could always stop or move up to a time frame in youtube and pause. It's just a slightly better system now.

Best,
Doug

[stotty]

I find the start of the stroke so dramatic. Both arms springing upwards and "locking out" like that. How he can watch that on a video playback and not think something isn't quite right, is bizarre. I worry terribly about the outcome of my students' strokes when I make changes. Were I Gulbis's coach, I would have thrown myself under a bus by now.

However, given that, half of coaching is whether the player believes in the coach and if the player believes in the stroke. At that level, it is equally about physical conditioning and mental fortitude. Strokes don't matter as much. There are plenty of players ranked much lower with cleaner strokes but 1) they are not as strong, 2) they are not as quick, 3) they are not as tough mentally, 4) they have worst tactics/strategy, or 5) they have poorer awareness (court and self). Even a player ranked 200 in the world may have better strokes than better players but due to usually inexperience/confidence and tactical/awareness, they are ranked lower. The best players can use terrible strokes and even their opposite hand and still beat regular open division players.

Very interesting Doug's above comments. In a kind of similar vain: Lew Hoad was thought to be a more complete and more powerful player than Rosewall. Gonzales certainly thought so. But Hoad and Rosewall grew up within a few miles of each other and played together all the time, so Rosewall always remained very "familiar" with Hoad's game and had no fear of him. In his mind Rosewall felt equal to Hoad. Hoad never really pulled away from Rosewall and their matches were always competitive.

Gonzales kept his distance from other players and developed a formidable reputation. Everyone from the amateur era, except Hoad, was demolished by Gonzales when they turned pro. It was like he was a set and three love up before he hit a ball.

Lendl dismissed pratice partners quite regularly because he didn't want them to get "too familiar" with his game….wise. You don't want to let a player realise that he is closer to you in standard then he might have thought, lest you give him belief. Belief is a big thing. Give a player belief and things can happen.

[klacr]

With all this discussion on the Gulbis Forehand. Good, bad or indifferent. It's clearly not horrendous to keep him out of an ATP Final.

I was at the Gulbis-Haas semi-final match today in Delray Beach.
Gulbis won. 3 sets. tie-break in the 3rd set. It wasn't pretty. Windy conditions. Big Backswing. Lots of forehands covered into the net. A few mental "walkabouts" along the way. But somehow he pulled it together.

On Sunday afternoon he'll be playing in an ATP Final and we'll either be on court slugging away or in the comfort of our own homes talking about tennis and tennis technique.

Doug's earlier comments (Gulbis, Coaching) are great. So simple and yet so deep. Really digging this thread.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[julian1]

Gulbis won a final

With all this discussion on the Gulbis Forehand. Good, bad or indifferent. It's clearly not horrendous to keep him out of an ATP Final.

I was at the Gulbis-Haas semi-final match today in Delray Beach.
Gulbis won. 3 sets. tie-break in the 3rd set. It wasn't pretty. Windy conditions. Big Backswing. Lots of forehands covered into the net. A few mental "walkabouts" along the way. But somehow he pulled it together.

On Sunday afternoon he'll be playing in an ATP Final and we'll either be on court slugging away or in the comfort of our own homes talking about tennis and tennis technique.

Doug's earlier comments (Gulbis, Coaching) are great. So simple and yet so deep. Really digging this thread.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

As everybody knows Gulbis won a final

[klacr]

As everybody knows Gulbis won a final

Yes he did. my last post was before the final.

Interesting week of tennis in Delray Beach to say the least.

Despite the atrocities of Gulbis' new forehand, no one was really able to break it down over the course of a 3 set match. Congrats to Gulbis.

I don't think we've seen the final product from Gulbis' forehand yet. Speaking with a few coaches at the event that have ties to the ATP Tour, they mentioned it was still a work in progress. This forehand is simply a "stage" of a final product. The forehand we've seen this year may not be what we see next year or 6 months from now. Interesting.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

"The flying eagle forehand." One of the ugliest shots, ala Bartoli's serve, Durr's fh, Forgets' kick the horse serve leg, the game has ever seen. If your father is a billionaire, and you smoke and party with: money/tennis groupies, you can afford to do whatever you want to do.

[stotty]

Yes he did. my last post was before the final.

Interesting week of tennis in Delray Beach to say the least.

Despite the atrocities of Gulbis' new forehand, no one was really able to break it down over the course of a 3 set match. Congrats to Gulbis.

I don't think we've seen the final product from Gulbis' forehand yet. Speaking with a few coaches at the event that have ties to the ATP Tour, they mentioned it was still a work in progress. This forehand is simply a "stage" of a final product. The forehand we've seen this year may not be what we see next year or 6 months from now. Interesting.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Get his coach to pop in the forum, Kyle. We'll put that forehand straight on no time.

[bottle]

Deciding Who is Most Awful

I didn't say anything yesterday because I could see that Julian wrote that Gulbis had won at Delray Beach, and I didn't want to mess with Julian's excitement, which was so considerable that it caused him to leave off a period.

It's a day later however, so here it is: Gulbis suggests to me a big stupid crook.

My experience in identifying big stupid crooks comes from teaching advanced composition in Massachusetts' prisons near where Julian lives. I really preferred the small, smart and scheming cons.

I have not however forgotten those big palookas, who remind me of the convicted jewel thief I had to play one time in the City Championship of Front Royal, Virginia.

He brought along his gang, who became especially vociferous once they realized the tournament director had failed to show up.

Similarly, Gulbis raised a big commotion at the end of the first set in Delray Beach at the exact moment he realized that Vaseline was about to beat him.

Similarly, Azarenka made a big commotion not long ago and took an emergency timeout just when she realized that Sloane Stephens was about to beat her.

And Djoker made a big commotion that famous time in a major when Roger was about to beat him.

One would have to say that Djoker is much too good a player to have to do that, and in fact he's been better behaved since then, perhaps because of criticism like this but certainly not from me.

Nevertheless he (Djoker) was much funnier back in the days when he did his impressions.

[stroke]

Yes he did. my last post was before the final.

Interesting week of tennis in Delray Beach to say the least.

Despite the atrocities of Gulbis' new forehand, no one was really able to break it down over the course of a 3 set match. Congrats to Gulbis.

I don't think we've seen the final product from Gulbis' forehand yet. Speaking with a few coaches at the event that have ties to the ATP Tour, they mentioned it was still a work in progress. This forehand is simply a "stage" of a final product. The forehand we've seen this year may not be what we see next year or 6 months from now. Interesting.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle, I watched the Gulbis/Haas match, albeit on TV, not in person like you. Haas did get to and expose his forehand somewhat but Gulbis, to his credit, was able to fight through and get the win at the end. Arius kept making the point about the size of the Gulbis forehand swing, and he does tend to end up on his back foot, kind of leaning back, to hit it when he is rushed. Nadal does this a lot also, his resulting shot does not suffer as Gulbis' does. Gulbis looks like he does at least keep the racquet on the hitting side of his body on the back swing. It will be interesting to see how his fh progresses.