Interactive Forum Februrary 2013: Petra Kvitova Forehand

[johnyandell]

Petra Kvitova Forehand

Here is one of the major weapons in women's pro tennis, Petra Kvitova's forehand, and the sequences show some of the reasons why!

As the game evolves the top women's players are incorporating more and more of the top men's elements--and any club player can learn from Petra. Watch the immediate start of the turn. But especially the stretch of the left arm across the body. It's still not as far and as hard as most of the men but you can see the result is still a great shoulder turn, plus 90 degrees to the net.

You can also see Petra's ability to hit from multiple stances, including a classic neutral stance on the third ball. Petra finishes many forehands over the shoulder, which is more common with the women. But watch her wiper the finish on the second shot, as well as rotate her back shoulder through the swing until it is virtually pointing at the opponent--again an advanced element in the men's game.

Watch also how well she extends the swing outward to the other side--again a huge point for lower level players--and how this happens even on that wiper drive!

And now your additional analysis please!

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

Petra Kvitova Forehand

[stotty]

Jiggling

Love the micro steps as the ball is coming in, jiggling to get her feet in the perfect position to strike the ball. I try so hard to get my students to do this because it simply makes all the difference.

How does she play with so much of the hand hanging off the handle? Being old school I simply cannot do this.

Her flip looks enormous. As I peruse the stroke archive I ask myself, is McEnroe the only player that has ever been pretty much flipless?

[10splayer]

Love the micro steps as the ball is coming in, jiggling to get her feet in the perfect position to strike the ball. I try so hard to get my students to do this because it simply makes all the difference.

How does she play with so much of the hand hanging off the handle? Being old school I simply cannot do this.

Her flip looks enormous. As I peruse the stroke archive I ask myself, is McEnroe the only player that has ever been pretty much flipless?

Interesting, because i see very little "flip" at all... As the hands break apart, the arm begins to rotate externally/ forearm supinates (look at the position of the forearm which turns up towards the sky). Also, notice the butt cap of the racquet which turns toward the ball...If you compare this sequence with a guy like fed, he does essentially the opposite. When the arms separate, the hitting arm rotates internally, forearm rotates internally (downward), and the butt cap is angles away (on a slight diagonal) from the ball..From this position, the racquet/arm has to flip to set up the hitting arm position.. Petra essentially has the hitting arm structure set up before she even drops the racquet in the loop.

[blake_b]

I am not seeing much flip either. It looks like she is bordering on a Type 1 forehand which Brian describes as

"By that I mean that the tip of the racquet, rather than pointing at the rear fence is actually pointing behind the player toward the side fence. "

Blake

[stotty]

wrist layback

Sorry, my mistake, I was referring to the wrist layback component.

[don_budge]

The Flipping Flip...

I propose abolishing the term due to the inherent misunderstanding surrounding its use. An unnecessary and misleading term.

Let's call it "jiggling".

[stotty]

Flippin 'eck

I propose abolishing the term due to the inherent misunderstanding surrounding its use. An unnecessary and misleading term.

Let's call it "jiggling".

A mistake...no misunderstanding...don't abolish a perfectly good word on account of Stotty after a party and a couple of late night drinks. Jiggling on other hand...

[10splayer]

I propose abolishing the term due to the inherent misunderstanding surrounding its use. An unnecessary and misleading term.

Let's call it "jiggling".

Ugg, it's just a word (coined by Gordon) to describe an action. And it is pretty descriptive of what happens.

[julian1]

129 kilometers per hour

I propose abolishing the term due to the inherent misunderstanding surrounding its use. An unnecessary and misleading term.

Let's call it "jiggling".

129 kilometers per hour of a forehand was quoted today during the Kvitova's march

[stroke]

Interesting, because i see very little "flip" at all... As the hands break apart, the arm begins to rotate externally/ forearm supinates (look at the position of the forearm which turns up towards the sky). Also, notice the butt cap of the racquet which turns toward the ball...If you compare this sequence with a guy like fed, he does essentially the opposite. When the arms separate, the hitting arm rotates internally, forearm rotates internally (downward), and the butt cap is angles away (on a slight diagonal) from the ball..From this position, the racquet/arm has to flip to set up the hitting arm position.. Petra essentially has the hitting arm structure set up before she even drops the racquet in the loop.

I agree completely with everything said here.

[stroke]

129 kilometers per hour of a forehand was quoted today during the Kvitiva's march

Brian pointed out in his articles on the type 3 that what seperates it(the resulting produced shot) is the combination of speed and spin, the true "heavy" ball.

[julian1]

Clarification

Brian pointed out in his articles on the type 3 that what seperates it(the resulting produced shot) is the combination of speed and spin, the true "heavy" ball.

I just provided A number for Kvitova (capitalization INTENDED).
I am NOT sure whether it was high enough-probably around 80 miles per hour
I agree that majority of her forehands do NOT have topspin
Some good table would be like this
a speed and topspin by Stosur vs a speed and topspin by Kvitova.
I have only ONE of FOUR numbers in this comparison

[don_budge]

Words...There are none...the meaning is for you to choose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHPPsWDR8Ss

Foreigner Suite...Cat Stevens

There are no words, I can use
Because the meaning still leaves for you to choose
And I couldn't stand to let them be abused, by you.

Dreams I had just last night
Made me scared, white with fright
But I'm over to that sunnyside road
Over to that sunnyside road

Fortunes come and fortunes go
But things get better babe, that's one thing I know
And I'm over to that sunnyside road
Over to that sunnyside road

I have a friend that I have met
Who gives me love and a certain respect
Just a little respect, everybody needs just a little respect
That means you. . .you...

And in a little while our love will spread
To you
Ain't no matter who inside this world you know
There'll he someone who will love you just for who you are
Really are

Dreams I had just last night
Made me worried to face up to the light
But I'm over to that sunnyside road
Over to that sunnyside road

Come on now it's freedom calling
Come on over and find yourself
Come on now it's freedom calling
Come on in and remind yourself

Oh darling, you see my face
But it's in my heart that's where it's taking place
And I couldn't stand to let it go to waste
Can you ...

Oh love, sweet blue love
No man can ever get enough
But maybe one day we'll all die in love
Will you . .. oh love, sweet love, my... love

Oh babe, understand
Take my love that's all I have at hand
Please say you will ... don't say you can't
Oh will you will you will you

The moment you walked inside my door
I knew' that I need not look no more
I've seen many other girls before, ah but darling
Heaven must've programmed you

The moment you fell inside my dreams
I realised all I had not seen
I've seen many other girls before, ah hot darling
Heaven must've programmed you

You can live in the largest house
And eleven apartments too
Run your own private plane
And a boat in malibu

But 'till you know' deep down what inside you really need
Well I love you baby, ooh my dear
And I think about you sometimes
But when you're with me boy it chokes my mind

Come on now it's freedom calling
Come on over and find yourself
Come on now it's freedom calling
Come on in and remind yourself

Man must fight for freedom sure that's what most other people would say
Look for a body to lead them but there's too many to lead them away.
Why wait until it's your time to die before you learn what you were born to do'?
Come on now it's freedom calling but there's only one freedom for you.
Love, love boy...
And I can't wait to be with you tomorrow night.

Won't you give me your word that you won't laugh
Cos you've been a saving grace to me
And I'd hate to face a day without you around
My life would be without sound

Love, love, love, love must've made you on a sunday
Cos you taste to me as good as God made honey taste babe
And the sky all glistens with gold
When you're talking to me
And the whirling wind turns to song
Why it sets my soul free

Love, love. love. love must've made you on a sunday

There are no words. I can use
Because the meaning still leaves for you to choose
And I couldn't stand to let them be abused, by you

Unless you happen to be a member of tennisplayer.net...unless you just so happened to read the article by Dr. Brian Gordon...unless you just so happened to understand what he meant by the flip action that he says occurs in Type 3 forehands...unless all of these conditions are met...I guarantee you that 99.9% of all tennis teachers and tennis students will not truly understand just what it is...just what exactly you are talking about. I find tennisplayer.net to be a great resource for tennis information and discussion and the like but the one thing that it is not...is the Holy Grail of Tennis. Things tend to a bit more nebulous than that.

A dictionary definition of the word flip might say something to the effect that to flip is to "turn over or cause to turn over with a sudden sharp movement" which may or may not be adequate to convey an action that is taking place in the "modern forehand" or even forehands that existed before you were born. This is a dangerous term in my book...I would never ever tell a tennis student of mine to "flip" their forehand. Too much connotation would be attributed to the wrist action of the stroke and to advise one to flip ones wrist is inadvisable.

That being said...if any or all of the readers here on the forum are comfortable using that word in describing the action of the forehand groundstroke in tennis that is well by me. But when you leave the confines of this forum I believe that most tennis experts will give you a somewhat cross eyed look if you advise someone to flip their forehand.

Anyways...listen to the song. You might just learn something from it as well. Remember...if you go anywhere in the world, particularly outside of your little comfort zone...if you wish to speak to someone you must define your terms. That is...if you wish to be understood.

"There are no words. I can use
Because the meaning still leaves for you to choose
And I couldn't stand to let them be abused, by you"

[julian1]

Flip

To some extent

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2&page=125

post #1249 is addressing "The FLIP"