what is he doing right...what is he doing wrong.. how to and what to improve....

[tpatennis]

Footwork

thanks Tom, what do you mean by the highlighted...

Hey,

if you email me at tpatennis@yahoo.com I will send you a video of what I mean. It may be easier to show you what I mean. I am not saying what he is doing is wrong but there are other footwork patterns he will need and will definitely help him in his development.

Cheers

Tom

[don_budge]

"Teach them to play monopoly, not to sing in the rain!"...Jethro Tull

Thick as a Brick...Jethro Tull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toHlMD50eYY

Really terrific. Just keep him having fun on the court.

Biggest thing is just have fun. It's important to develop good fundamental habits and a love for playing the game that translates into a love for doing the all too necessary work. That can't be forced.

good luck,
don

Thanks gokulms for sharing. I think it takes a lot of courage to post a work in progress. Stotty leads the way here. I have a question...what is this kid's training regimen. How often is he playing and how many hours a week?

He's six years old, what could he possibly be doing wrong? Ask that question of his trainers...if at all. He is playing. Just what a six year old should be doing. Let him be a kid without the parental aspirations and dreams pushing him in their direction. He will end up happier that way. Who knows...he may just choose to be a tennis player some day. What is it with todays tennis culture? The sports culture in general? Every body is a piece of meat...for the grinder.

If he were my boy...and I am the worldsbestparent by the way, even though I don't have children...I would like to get him interested immediately in basketball. Train him to be a point guard...a chocolate labrador retriever with a nose for the ball. I can just see him ten years from now...a star basketball/tennis player with a tough decision to make...basketball or tennis? The basketball will give an education in defense and offense...moving forwards and backwards. Attack and defense. Offensive minded and a ball hog. That’s the ticket for a tennis player...for a tennis player attitude.

Hopefully you will teach him to play piano and guitar too...so that he can serenade all of the lovelies coming his way. No better way to a woman's heart than music. Hopefully he will be schooled in the Latin Dances as well...cha cha cha! He may just be a real life Johnny Depp or Johnny anything his little heart should decide upon. I can just see him now...a concert pianist with a tough decision to make.

Six years old is too young to focus on any one thing unless mommy and daddy are in dire need of a pay check and even so...beware. Tennis is a game...not a business. Time to play my little friend...life will take you that is for certain. Follow your dreams my boy.

What does he do right? He watches the ball...that is the first thing that I noticed. Just like my chocolate labrador Frankie, he has eyes only for the ball. He's got a nose for the ball. He loves to play! This cannot be taught. Plus he is staying out of trouble I am sure. Kids like this don't end up knocking off party stores in their spare time.

What does he do wrong? Nothing at all. He's six years old for God's sake. He is only doing what he is being taught. What is his trainer doing wrong? Nothing...or everything. Every trainer has his ideas and this one is obviously all modern tennis. But I don't care for the forehand at all. If he were my tennis student...I would close that stance in no uncertain terms and flatten out that swing. Watching a couple of little guys trying to out topspin each other is a dead end...sort of like the professional game these days. At least on the backhand side he is on the front foot more or less before he comes rolling through with the back foot...which I don't care for. Both sides have the exaggerated follow through over the opposite shoulder which is of course par for the course these days. l like to abbreviate things with little people and let them grow into it if that is their wish.

I believe that when youngsters are too young to make decisions on their own, they should be taught classical and that is all there is to it. This technique of coming over the ball so quickly is pretty but it is a one way road. Once embarked upon there is no way back...it's all topspin with no way of ever learning the midcourt and approach and volley part of tennis. It is much harder to weaken a grip than to strengthen one. Besides, one never knows what the powers that be are thinking. The television ratings are bound to fall with the Djokovic vs. Murray show so they are going to have to reengineer the game again. Who knows? Next time the surfaces may not be conducive to the current fads. Teach him something that one can build upon...in whatever direction things might go. The service motion is cute!

Give him plenty of work and drills in the midcourt and net. Teach him a neutral grip for these shots. Teach him to smash. Smash time! The partner of Brian Gordan, Rick something or other, had an excellent drill that I like to use where the student goes forwards to hit a ball either in the air or after the bounce and then retreats behind a bucket or something and then they must surge forwards again for another ball. Work him up and back with the drills that I spelled out going to the net and retreating behind the baseline. Teach him to use his imagination.

Don't look at this boy as a future professional tennis player. You will be selling him short. Tennis is a game that one should make a decision about when one is old enough to make decisions on your own, which is about 13 or 14 years old. In the meantime...let him play. Let him play as hard as he wants....tennis_chiro hits the nail on the head. Develop a love for the game.

He has talent that is for sure...but get him to try as many things as possible. Remember the "Thick as a Brick" song/album by Jethro Tull...we "teach them to play monopoly not to sing in the rain". I have some mixed feelings about teaching kids so young to play tennis professionally unless they are from a third world country and mommy and daddy need a paycheck.

Just some food for thought from the worldsbestparent...don_budge!

[gokulms]

Thick as a Brick...Jethro Tull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toHlMD50eYY

Thanks gokulms for sharing. I think it takes a lot of courage to post a work in progress. Stotty leads the way here. I have a question...what is this kid's training regimen. How often is he playing and how many hours a week?

He's six years old, what could he possibly be doing wrong? Ask that question of his trainers...if at all. He is playing. Just what a six year old should be doing. Let him be a kid without the parental aspirations and dreams pushing him in their direction. He will end up happier that way. Who knows...he may just choose to be a tennis player some day. What is it with todays tennis culture? The sports culture in general? Every body is a piece of meat...for the grinder.

If he were my boy...and I am the worldsbestparent by the way, even though I don't have children...I would like to get him interested immediately in basketball. Train him to be a point guard...a chocolate labrador retriever with a nose for the ball. I can just see him ten years from now...a star basketball/tennis player with a tough decision to make...basketball or tennis? The basketball will give an education in defense and offense...moving forwards and backwards. Attack and defense. Offensive minded and a ball hog. That’s the ticket for a tennis player...for a tennis player attitude.

Hopefully you will teach him to play piano and guitar too...so that he can serenade all of the lovelies coming his way. No better way to a woman's heart than music. Hopefully he will be schooled in the Latin Dances as well...cha cha cha! He may just be a real life Johnny Depp or Johnny anything his little heart should decide upon. I can just see him now...a concert pianist with a tough decision to make.

Six years old is too young to focus on any one thing unless mommy and daddy are in dire need of a pay check and even so...beware. Tennis is a game...not a business. Time to play my little friend...life will take you that is for certain. Follow your dreams my boy.

What does he do right? He watches the ball...that is the first thing that I noticed. Just like my chocolate labrador Frankie, he has eyes only for the ball. He's got a nose for the ball. He loves to play! This cannot be taught. Plus he is staying out of trouble I am sure. Kids like this don't end up knocking off party stores in their spare time.

What does he do wrong? Nothing at all. He's six years old for God's sake. He is only doing what he is being taught. What is his trainer doing wrong? Nothing...or everything. Every trainer has his ideas and this one is obviously all modern tennis. But I don't care for the forehand at all. If he were my tennis student...I would close that stance in no uncertain terms and flatten out that swing. Watching a couple of little guys trying to out topspin each other is a dead end...sort of like the professional game these days. At least on the backhand side he is on the front foot more or less before he comes rolling through with the back foot...which I don't care for. Both sides have the exaggerated follow through over the opposite shoulder which is of course par for the course these days. l like to abbreviate things with little people and let them grow into it if that is their wish.

I believe that when youngsters are too young to make decisions on their own, they should be taught classical and that is all there is to it. This technique of coming over the ball so quickly is pretty but it is a one way road. Once embarked upon there is no way back...it's all topspin with no way of ever learning the midcourt and approach and volley part of tennis. It is much harder to weaken a grip than to strengthen one. Besides, one never knows what the powers that be are thinking. The television ratings are bound to fall with the Djokovic vs. Murray show so they are going to have to reengineer the game again. Who knows? Next time the surfaces may not be conducive to the current fads. Teach him something that one can build upon...in whatever direction things might go. The service motion is cute!

Give him plenty of work and drills in the midcourt and net. Teach him a neutral grip for these shots. Teach him to smash. Smash time! The partner of Brian Gordan, Rick something or other, had an excellent drill that I like to use where the student goes forwards to hit a ball either in the air or after the bounce and then retreats behind a bucket or something and then they must surge forwards again for another ball. Work him up and back with the drills that I spelled out going to the net and retreating behind the baseline. Teach him to use his imagination.

Don't look at this boy as a future professional tennis player. You will be selling him short. Tennis is a game that one should make a decision about when one is old enough to make decisions on your own, which is about 13 or 14 years old. In the meantime...let him play. Let him play as hard as he wants....tennis_chiro hits the nail on the head. Develop a love for the game.

He has talent that is for sure...but get him to try as many things as possible. Remember the "Thick as a Brick" song/album by Jethro Tull...we "teach them to play monopoly not to sing in the rain". I have some mixed feelings about teaching kids so young to play tennis professionally unless they are from a third world country and mommy and daddy need a paycheck.

Just some food for thought from the worldsbestparent...don_budge!

Thanks don_budge, very thoughtful. to answer your question on the kids regimen..
He has a 30min private lesson with a coach on Wednesday
He has a 2hr group lesson ( 4-5 kids ) fun drills, doubles etc on Monday. that is it. he has a elder brother whom he hits with when the weather permits, we live in eastern US..

his passion is not tennis. he is a movie addict. he watches comedy and action movies all day if given a choice and may one day become an actor. who knows..

basketball and soccer.. he loves to kick the basketball and carries the soccer ball in his hands and runs to the goal.

in the mean time i am learning a lot, a lot from John's site and also from valuable inputs from you all. i used to walk 2 miles to watch Boris Becker, Pat Cash and those good old players, play whenever they played when i was a kid, because that was the only house that had a TV in our area ( third world country )boy-o-boy miss those days. nowadays everything is available with click of a button. but those old little pleasures with Pain, i love it.
so yeah, apart from all the fun he has i try to force little (very little) tennis on him, if i am guilty of it, so be it, if one day he becomes a tennis player atleast he will not complain dad did not introduce this game to me when i was young.

thanks Stotty, don, don_budge, Tom (tpatennis), john and all for the inputs. i guess i will be meeting Tom during summer if schedules permit. Very kind of him to send me a video of some footwork drills for the little one.

this is a very high quality website with very high quality members who share from their hearts.

[don_budge]

Nice reply...gokulms!

Thanks don_budge, very thoughtful. to answer your question on the kids regimen..
He has a 30min private lesson with a coach on Wednesday
He has a 2hr group lesson ( 4-5 kids ) fun drills, doubles etc on Monday. that is it. he has a elder brother whom he hits with when the weather permits, we live in eastern US..

his passion is not tennis. he is a movie addict. he watches comedy and action movies all day if given a choice and may one day become an actor. who knows..

basketball and soccer.. he loves to kick the basketball and carries the soccer ball in his hands and runs to the goal.

in the mean time i am learning a lot, a lot from John's site and also from valuable inputs from you all. i used to walk 2 miles to watch Boris Becker, Pat Cash and those good old players, play whenever they played when i was a kid, because that was the only house that had a TV in our area ( third world country )boy-o-boy miss those days. nowadays everything is available with click of a button. but those old little pleasures with Pain, i love it.
so yeah, apart from all the fun he has i try to force little (very little) tennis on him, if i am guilty of it, so be it, if one day he becomes a tennis player atleast he will not complain dad did not introduce this game to me when i was young.

thanks Stotty, don, don_budge, Tom (tpatennis), john and all for the inputs. i guess i will be meeting Tom during summer if schedules permit. Very kind of him to send me a video of some footwork drills for the little one.

this is a very high quality website with very high quality members who share from their hearts.

What a wonderful reply...the kid is in good hands!

I think that the regimen is just perfect. Tommy Tennis will straighten out the footwork anomalies and get him off on the right foot with his tennis. Or on to his left foot on the forehand side.

Better to play tennis than to watch television I think but the theatrics may come in handy should he decide to pursue tennis. The tennis court is a stage...or at least it used to be. He'll figure out which ball to use his hands with and which to kick...kids are like that, aren't they? Two good sports that are compatible with tennis are basketball and football (soccer). That's a good balance.

I'm with you on the click of a button society...what if one day things cease to work? And oh yes...the pain. I know what you mean. Now I know. But the best way to be introduced to tennis is from good old dad...that is how it happened with me. My wonderful father...I used to hate it when he beat me. His patience trumped my impetuousness every single time...up to the point.

Tennis is a bit of a strange proposition...you see how everyone wants to get all scientific. It is rather ironic when much of the sport is sort of metaphysics. The sport will find you it seems. It teaches you how to let the game come to you. Whether it be tennis, the game of life or the game of love. Patience...and the game will come to you.

I wish you the best...you and your little boy. Someday in the not so distant future he will grow to be a man...playing the game! Such a nice reply from you!

[gokulms]

Some Progress ??

Friends, the kid is working hard since last time i posted. kindly see if you see progression. may not be the same pace with which you all expect we incorporated some inputs from you all

any input is greatly appreciated

http://youtu.be/V-u8wO1BQ4I

http://youtu.be/IlEHU_u06r8

[don_budge]

don_budge says...

Friends, the kid is working hard since last time i posted. kindly see if you see progression. may not be the same pace with which you all expect we incorporated some inputs from you all

any input is greatly appreciated

http://youtu.be/V-u8wO1BQ4I

http://youtu.be/IlEHU_u06r8

Perfect!

[tennis_chiro]

Really looks good. I like the changes in balance and footwork and even racket path. Pretty amazing for 8 years old. I'd love to see him hitting in a rally instead of just individual shots.

don

[gokulms]

rally

tennis_chiro, did you see this one?

http://youtu.be/V-u8wO1BQ4I

[tennis_chiro]

tennis_chiro, did you see this one?
http://youtu.be/V-u8wO1BQ4I

It looks great there too, until the ball goes away from the forehand side. I just wondered if he could integrate both shots. Forehand definitely looks good. Pretty tough expecting him to play the full court at just 8 years old.

don

[don_budge]

Specifics...

Friends, the kid is working hard since last time i posted. kindly see if you see progression. may not be the same pace with which you all expect we incorporated some inputs from you all

any input is greatly appreciated

http://youtu.be/V-u8wO1BQ4I

http://youtu.be/IlEHU_u06r8

When I saw the first swing in the first video and the couple in slow motion in the second which ends in your son scooting to the net I said to myself….hmmmm. Very interesting.

The strokes that really catch my eye are the balls that he is stepping into. In the rally video he lapses back into hitting off of the "wrong" foot and I would endeavour to get him to hit whenever possible off of the front foot. This is the kind of thing one can build upon and trust me if he is Fundamentally Correct (FC) it will all evolve quite naturally. All of the bells and whistles will magically appear as they are needed or desired. In the beginning…stress fundamentals. Those balls that he steps into are the makings of something "Federesque".

That last swing that he makes in slow motion is exactly what I like to see…moving into the net to clean up. Install this kind of program and by the time he is a man you will see your investment paying big dividends. I am not talking about money by the way. I am talking about the investment of time, work and effort.

I will add a post with some additional thoughts that I hope you will find interesting and useful. Just some food for thought. Take care…my friend. The idea of a father and son embarking on this journey together brings back some memories…the best a man can have. It is the stuff that you can forge a meaningful relationship around.

I still like the "point guard" idea that I mentioned earlier in this thread.

[don_budge]

Fundamentally correct (FC)… and "Match Play and the Spin of the Ball"

By setting up your boy to hit the ball from a more classic stance you give him the possibility to hit with pace and not just with spin and speed. We had this discussion that Stotty initiated in the "Thoughts about Tennis Tradition" thread. Coincidentally this sort of conversation is directly related to your sons footwork and the way he transfers his weight into his swing.

Match Play and the Spin of the Ball....what a book. One of the most remarkable paragraphs in the book, for me at least, is the one below. I suppose some would argue the meaning of pace and speed are the same...let them do so...it's not the point for me. When I read that paragraph I was bowled over. Surely Tilden had stumbled on the theory of the "heavy ball" in tennis...light years before anyone else?

"Speed and pace are not the same. They are totally different. Speed is the rate at which the ball travels through the air. Pace is the momentum (rate of speed, plus the player’s weight) with which it comes off the ground. Thus a fast shot that has not the player’s weight in it does not carry pace when it comes off the ground. Conversely, some shots travel comparatively slowly through the air, but by virtue of the player’s weight behind them come off the ground with pace." …William Tilden from "Match Play and the Spin of the Ball".

Truly a great topic for discussion among knowledgable tennis aficionados. This somewhat brief statement has all kinds of implications when you begin to think about developing a tennis player.

I always tell a new student or a newcomer to the game…"Tennis is a game of balance and energy". Then I pause a moment to let it sink in…and to gloat just a bit as to how brilliant a statement that is. "Match Play and the Spin of the Ball is the most brilliant book ever written about tennis. Harry Hopman…the legendary coach of the great Australian dynasty passed this on to his players as the "Bible of Tennis". Sometimes I think of this great book with an alternative title…"Match Play and the Path of the Ball" or "Match Play and the Trajectory of the Ball". It is brilliant in its straight forward, no nonsense delivery and curiously it is void of any references to technology. Afterall it was written in…get this…1925. It is even older than me.

I can still remember the sound of my dear old tennis coach Sherm Collins voice in my head speaking to me of this or that. His lessons were often speckled with quotes of Tilden and references to Richard Gonzales. He called me "Pancho". But what you have quoted here is what you call one of those white light moments of inspiration quotes by Tilden…he talks about the difference between "speed and pace".

He further adds…"A player may hit a very fast drive by a wild swing of his arm, yet it will carry no pace, as his weight placement is out of the shot and not in it."

So there you go. All you tennis coaches…you can go from there with your teaching game.

Super post…by a super guy. Thanks for the superb quote. It doesn't get any more Fundamentally Correct (FC) than that.

From the thread...”klacr strokes”. Post #62 thru #70. This is a wonderful thread in which our highly esteemed klacr (Kyle Lacroix) puts his own strokes up for analysis. One of the best ways to learn about tennis is to study others. Kyle put himself out there for us to analyze and we all came away with some deeper understanding. Posts #62 thru #70 are some of my comments regarding his forehand stance and are relevant to your son...I believe.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2825

From the thread...”A Forehand in Need of a Drop”. Post #28. Here is another great thread started by tennis_chiro. His student found it difficult to get the racquet head under the ball to generate more topspin. He hits terrifically flat. Post #28 includes a couple of drills that I observed at a trainer symposium that was headed by Bob Brett and Mats Wilander in Stockholm, Sweden last year. Really terrific stuff. When doing these drills just tell him one thing over and over…step to the ball!

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2875&page=3

Below is a thread that I wrote with the help of our friends here on the forum about volleying and approach shots among other things. It isn't too early to start and introduce these ideas and concepts to your boy as part of his foundation. Please have a look at some of my thoughts and see if they are of any interest to you in training your son. Pay particular attention to some of the drills that I discuss regards moving forwards to the net and then moving backwards to the baseline. Play basketball too!

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2145&highlight=thoughts+volleys%5B/url%5D

One more thing…I would start to introduce the idea of a one hand backhand to him very early on. It isn't so much about strength as it is about grip and technique.

[gokulms]

Thank you

Thank you don_budge and tennis_chiro, will keep working on the front foot stroke and post clip after some time. appreciate the feedback

[klacr]

Don't lose his desire.

Love watching this kid hit. The eagerness in the feet and his posture is great. He wants to be out there. He is having fun. It's how many of us started. Thanks for videos.

I agree with don_budge and tennis_chiro. Those two contributors to the forum were generous enough to help me with my strokes. I'm glad they are helping you. Like Allstate Insurance, You're in good hands.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gokulms]

Thank you

Thank You klacr, will keep at it. Appreciate your note.