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**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 09:27 AM

The John McEnroe backhand as viewed from the CENTER...

CENTER

BH Center Front- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterFront.pct

signature mcenroe ready position with racquet in front of his body, “cheating” to his backhand and parallel to his shoulders. moving to his left with a skip step and then plants his back foot after some small measuring steps. gradually turning his shoulders on his way to the ball by the time he plants his back foot his shoulders have made most of their turn. left shoulder begins to point at the ball after the bounce. in position to go forwards...again it is the three exact lines of feet, shoulders and racquet. with a turn of the hips and driving of the legs he rotates his body with the racquet arm swinging independently up and through the ball. shoulders, arm and racquet finish in the same plane.

BH Center Rear 1- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterRear1.mov

on a ball hit just slightly to his right...he never has to move his right foot. left foot steps more forwards than to the ball indicating perhaps a down the line shot. here is a beautiful view of the supinated wrist that the continental grip encourages. this supination is going to provide a booster into the ball when the wrist rotates into the ball at impact. shoulder pointing at the incoming ball. positioning of the shoulders are the key along with the working of the wrist. synchronization of the legs and body rotating into the ball as the arm comes swinging through and the wrist unwinding like a rubber band give this ball a lot of momentum. this is not a particularly aggressive swing but is played to the oppositions backhand. note that the chest stays on the ball throughout the swing and once again the follow through indicates that body, arm and racquet all finish in the same plane. a signature mcenroe finish.

BH Center Rear 2- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterRear2.mov

mcenroe actually moving to his left to hit a backhand. note the catlike movement even at the ripe age of 50 something. racquet set back into position with a combination of shoulder turn and the free right hand setting the head back and up...see the supinated wrist. the back foot is set then reset...and his is in position to go forwards. a dip of the left shoulder as the ball bounces then the front foot is placed at the same time that the hips begin to turn which in turn drops the racquet hand and the racquet down into position below the ball. notice the angle of the racquet as it comes forwards with the supinated wrist. chest is squarely on the ball as mcenroe comes rotating through. the arm never gets ahead of the shoulders...indicating how much of the work is being done with the body. the finish is once again the signature mcenroe finish. an indication of an ultimately repetitive motion.

BH Center CourtLevel Front1- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...evelFront1.mov

very interesting...a chest high shot played from the center of the court. standing in a rather upright stance for the approaching high ball mcenroe flexes his legs at the ball briefly then rights himself and turns sideways drawing the racquet back as an archer may draw his bow. this time his backswing is significantly higher and the wrist has a rather pronounced supination but he maintains this position until just before he strokes the ball and the wrist comes rotating through the ball along with his shoulders and arm. once again it is the same finish position only everything finishes just a bit higher than normal on the chest high ball. even from the higher position the fundamentals remain the same...the foot placement position, the left shoulder pointing at the ball and the by now familiar follow through.

BH Center CourtLevel Front2- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...evelFront2.mov

the truly beautiful thing about the mcenroe backhand is the perfectly repetitive nature of it and it all begins with his meticulous preparation. every swing is prepared with the 3 line setup...the feet first, the shoulders and then the racquet. from this position it is only a matter of turning the hips and shoulders back to the ball and allowing the arm to swing and the wrist to do its magic as the last part of the series of movements. mcenroe likes to start the racquet head below the ball and swing the racquet face through without much tilting or maneuvering. it is natural tennis. everything fits...metaphysically speaking. this is a ball that is being played down the line and probably deeper into the opponents backhand corner. a couple of small steps and mcenroe has positioned himself for the nest shot...always thinking ahead and anticipating.

BH Center CourtLevel- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...tLevelRear.mov

here is the subtle beauty of the backhand side of mcenroe. this is a rather harmless looking shot at first glance but he is pretty darn good position to make a good pass here and he is hitting a rather flat shot skimming the net that just may have a bit of sidespin on it. this ball is going to stay down and away from his opponents backhand. when that supinated wrist comes rolling through the ball it creates a bit of a subtle extra unwinding motion giving the ball some rather deceptive momentum...which may account for some of the surprise of the mcenroe ball being on top of the opponent deceptively quick.

**stotty** · 01-01-2013, 09:47 AM

Chest high returns...

Here we go again. Dissecting the McEnroe backhand. Can't wait.

What a way to start 2013....

However, you beat me to the draw. I was just about to post the following clip...which I'll post anyway. It's a clip of McEnroe's backhand return of serve. For me this was the McEnroe weakness, right here. I remember Borg rolling in deep 1st serves right into Mac's backhand and there nothing Mac could do with it. Those chest high returns of Mac's were a gimme for Borg to get the rally off on neutral terms...or even worse, on defensive terms...very difficult to beat Borg when starting rallies from a neutral or negative start.

That chest high block...not good...the grip didn't help. For Borg it was a safe place to go...phew.

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http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_backhand_return/mac_bhret_1st_serve/mac_bhret_1st_serve.html?MacBHRet1stSDeuceCourtLevelFront1.mov

Now let's start studying those Mac clips that don_budge has so kindly laid out...

**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 09:54 AM

Great minds...

Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post

Here we go again. Dissecting the McEnroe backhand. Can't wait.

What a way to start 2013....

However, you beat me to the draw.

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...think alike!

**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 09:56 AM

The John McEnroe backhand as viewed as a DROPSHOT...

DROPSHOT

BH DropShot Front- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...pShotFront.mov

here's johnny!...two long panther like strides and the back foot is decisively set and then all of the weight is place squarely on the front foot. at the beginning of this clip he has begun to turn his shoulders and the racquet dutifully follows...his right hand sets the racquet shoulder high with an open face. from this position he is in position to one of several things. one of many things actually. he is in position to send this ball deep into the backhand corner of his opponent with some wicked underspin or sidespin. he is in position to draw this ball crosscourt...either deep into the corner or at an acute angle. the mcenroe choice is a nicely cut underspin delicately placed dropshot down the line. note how abruptly the racquet face descends on the ball and if my intuition serves me correctly he is making contact very low on the incoming ball...possibly even sliding the racquet along the bottom of the ball by the looks of the open face of the racquet in the follow through. as always...meticulous preparation. the 3 line approach to the swing is perfect...feet, shoulders and arm.

BH DropShot BHLob CourtLevel Rear- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...tLevelRear.mov

a tactic out of the john mcenroe book of tactical tennis or how to make your opponent feel awful. with his opponent deep in his forehand court mcenroe plays a relatively short backhand with pronounced underspin in the form of a drop shot. his opponent gets to the ball rather comfortably however ever and slides a ball deep into the mcenroe backhand corner. while moving backwards mcenroe deftly opens the face of his racquet and calmly lifts a lob over his opponents head that will in all probability land inches from the far baseline. dropshotnlob...don’t we have a guy on the forum with that moniker. a great tactic to use against the modern day baseline player.

BH DropShot BHLobV CourtLevel Rear- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelFront.mov

i adore this clip. mcenroe moving forwards to a short backhand has the option to pin his opponent deep in the backhand corner or to bring him forwards...desperately forwards. mcenroe immediately recognizes that his opponent is going to just barely arrive at the ball in the nick of time to avoid the second bounce so he is creeping in to apply the coup de gras. in this case it is a touch lob volley over borg’s head leaving the two of them face to face at the net. check out the expressions. mcenroe looked as if he may of applied some sidespin on the ball in order to get the ball to drift away from the charging borg. these are the subtle tactics in the mcenroe repertoire that are all designed to do one thing...to get his opponent off balance in order for him to apply the stiletto. while mcenroe hits his fair share of winners...i wonder what percentage of his points won are from drawing his opponent off balance just so they will play into his capable hands. chess anyone?

**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 10:09 AM

The John McEnroe backhand as viewed as a LOB...

LOB

BH Lob CourtLevel Rear1- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelRear1.mov

this not a shot that one normally thinks of in connection with the mcenroe backhand...the topspin lob. but here mcenroe pays homage once again to the fundamentals that are ingrained into his very soul...feet, body and racquet in perfect alignment. now here comes the funny idiosyncratic nature of the mcenroe backhand...it is the wrist position that stroke has perceptively picked up on. the supinated wrist. with the wrist in this position it is a rather unique position to come up and over on the ball as mcenroe so capably does on his drives...here he merely pulls the string at the very last moment and abruptly hits up and across the back of the ball...thus the topspin backhand lob. voila!

BH Lob Slice CourtLevel Rear- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...tLevelRear.mov

mcenroe is an out and out great lobber of the tennis ball. no doubt partly attributed to his fanatical double play. while mcenroe is largely out of position to make a good pass on this ball with his opponent securely in position on the net he does the one thing that he can do from this position...actually HE could probably do several but he does the very intelligent thing...he opens up the face of the racquet at the last second and sends a soft and floating lob deep over his opponents backhand. left-handers should be taught from the beginning this type of defensive ploy as it will get them out of all kinds of trouble during their tennis playing days.

**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 11:18 AM

The John McEnroe backhand as viewed playing SHORT...

SHORT

BH Short Rear- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...HShortRear.mov

a couple of notes with regards to the early preparation of the mcenroe backhand. notice how the racquet is always “cheating” to the backhand side in his ready position. this is possible because of the very economical move that he makes to the forehand side. he can afford to cheat to the backhand which enables him to play that much more aggressively off of that side. the other thing that is economical time wise is that he is using the same grip for everything. not having to change is an advantage. take this shot for instance...a sharply angled drive cross court. as soon as he turns his shoulders and the right hand has set the racquet into position it is all systems go. now it is merely a matter at setting the feet and pointing that left shoulder at the incoming ball. as he makes his move on the ball notice how the wrist goes shooting through the path of the ball so decisively. stroke has made a very perceptive observation that is the answer to “does he flip” on the backhand side. the flip of the continental gripped shots have the bruce lee one inch punch force behind them. the use of the wrist with this grip is a much shorter span of movement but the concentration behind it is multiplied by the leverage of the position and resulting action of the wrist. this supination that the mcenroe backhand drive has is truly unique and it opens up a lot of possibilities. that follow through of the racquet every single time is no accident...the wrist is designed to do exactly that and once you begin to understand the preparation of the shot, this ending becomes a foregone conclusion once you are in position. the versatility provides multiple options to dissect his opponent and that is exactly what he often does...a combination of least expected shots often wins for the wily veteran.

BH Short Side- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...HShortSide.mov

here is a shot that looks to be just a tad uncomfortable for the mcenroe continental gripped backhand. the ball has gotten a bit high in the strike zone for johnny boy but he makes the best of a less than desirable situation by doing the right thing. he asserts himself and takes the ball early in an attempt to be aggressive...or at least, less defensive. by merely turning his shoulders he has the racquet back in position but because of the height of the ball he must make an adjustment. note the supinated wrist once more...an inherent characteristic of the grip that he uses and how he must be in position to drive the ball. he has elected to drive this high ball so he is moving forwards and still manages to point his leading shoulder at the ball then he rotates very hard on a very level plane with the end result being that the wrist unleashes just enough energy into this semi awkward shot to effectively enable mcenroe to live to play another day. if his shot is half way decent he is position to attack the next ball...this tactician is always thinking in combinations. if this...then that.

BH Short CourtLevel Rear- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...tLevelRear.mov

the choice of views in this series of mcenroe forehands and backhands is really extraordinary for a study such as these. here mcenroe is taking a ball from very nearly the same position of the court that he did in the first of this short series but this time he elects to go hard and low up the line. immediately after hitting his shot he realizes he has his opponent in trouble so he is scampering to the net to seal the deal. once again as always the preparation is just perfect with the feet, shoulders and racquet in perfect alignment and with this preparation and with this grip of a supinated wrist he can hold his intentions to the very last moment and spring on it. this late release of the racquet head gives his opponents all kinds of trouble reading his shots. he is unbelievably clever in his shot selection and he has a bunch to choose from.

**stotty** · 01-01-2013, 11:37 AM

Mac the lobber

Originally posted by don_budge View Post

he is unbelievably clever in his shot selection and he has a bunch to choose from.

Always makes the right decision...always did...no one else in the game I can think of who can match Mac in the "right shot, right time" department.

Great analysis of the lob, don_budge. Go to gsheiner's thread with the 1977 clip of Johnny Mac and watch that third point for a stunning backhand topspin lob...perfectly played...with hands and feel...no massive wrist pumping like Nastase...just guided, caressed... gorgeous.

Boy am I enjoying this thread...

**tennis_chiro** · 01-01-2013, 09:43 PM

Couple of points

Couple of points:

1. It doesn't take any longer to hit the ball with a grip change if that grip change is an efficient and automatic part of the very first move you make when you recognize the next shot as a backhand. That is, if the opposite hand is moving the racket into position as the dominant hand adjusts the grip, it takes no additional time to make that change; in fact, pulling with the opposite hand, in some ways, makes it easier to swing forward, with the dominant arm - you don't have to overcome the rearward momentum of that dominant arm swinging the racket back.

2. As Stotty points out, that continental grip does have its weak points. Just try hanging a heavy beach towel on a line and practice the "beating the rug" drill with your racket held in different grips. You will be able to do it with that continental grip, but your wrist is going to fatigue in a hurry; and beating the rug above waist level is going to be significantly more challenging with the continental grip.

3. If you make the pull back with the opposite hand the same way every time, you can disguise the reduced grip change you will use to hit your slice or drop shot. You'll also want to make a similar initial part of your backswing (unit turn) for every shot to disguise whether you are going to hit

- a flat drive, a hard drive with more topspin (slightly more racket drop in the hitting action after the unit turn and simultaneous grip change),

-a lob (a much greater racket drop, but only at the last moment as part of the swing to avoid giving it away),

-a Rosewallian slice drive (no drop at all and perhaps held a little longer to see where the player moves as this ball does not need to be hit as far in front as the topspin drive and with less grip change),

-a Federian (should that be Federerian, Bottle?) slice backhand which would require raising the racket head just slightly to enable the sharper downward stroke,

-a drop shot which might also require raising the racket head just slightly at the last minute before striking down on the ball even more sharply than with the Federerian slice.

4. Take a good luck at the action of Mac's left shoulder. I think Bottle likes to talk about scapular retraction. But here I want to point out the scapular retraction in conjunction with lateral rotation and abduction and arm extension. But that still doesn't get to it because the shoulder and scapula are being held at the end of the clavicle and the clavicle seems to move flexing in and out in the horizontal plane. The clavicle doesn't really move that much - it just seems to; the scapula and the gleno-humeral joint are doing the work. A good example of what I am getting at can be seen well in these two shots:

BH Center Rear 1- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterRear1.mov
In this shot, Mac doesn't flex the shoulder as much in toward his sternum and he uses more hip turn to execute the shot.

BH Center Rear 2- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterRear2.mov
Granted, this is a slightly different view and Mac, but you can see where he moves his right shoulder less in executing this shot and his hips less and yet gets a lot of action on the ball with greater action unwinding through the clavicular-scapular-glenohumeral kinetic chain.

You can also see this in the difference in

BH Center CourtLevel Front1- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...evelFront1.mov
a high ball with less of the motion I am talking about, but he could get that action if he prepared early enough and got way inside; but it is much more difficult to do with his grip.

BH Center CourtLevel Front2- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...evelFront2.mov
Be sure to click through the end of the motion as his right shoulder stays calm.

In any case, my #4 point is to be aware of the way that the shoulder unwinds through the shot. A lot of people have trouble getting real power because they just leave out this last link in the kinetic chain and just swing from the end of the gleno-humeral joint; that is just arm action, not shoulder action (perhaps I am overstating a bit there). But to get the full power of the one handed backhand, whatever grip, you need to get that full scapula-clavicle-glenohumeral joint complex moving through a full range of motion.

Finally, don_budge, you really should try that "beating the rug" drill. You'll then see the inherent weakness of the continental grip. I think we can all agree that the ball is hit with an essentially vertical (plus or minus not more than a couple of degrees) racket face, even in a slice or a topspin shot, especially in the kind of drive you are trying to develop. As s minimum, I think we would agree that the face should be perpendicular to the intended path of the outgoing ball (again plus or minus 2 or 3 degrees). If you can't beat the rug, you can't expect to be able to beat the ball. Finesse it , yes. But THWACK it, that takes something stronger. No question, Mac's backhand is a formidable weapon…against Borg and his contemporaries. But I wonder how he is doing from the baseline when he is faced with Agassi or Safin on the Champions tour.

don

PS Happy New Year everybody!

**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 10:52 PM

The John McEnroe backhand as viewed playing WIDE...

WIDE...

BH Wide Front1- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...WideFront1.mov

here’s a ball that mcenroe realizes instantaneously that he is going to be retreating somewhat and will be unable to play offense so he does the right thing with a little extra early preparation. he must take three rather long steps to get himself into position and right out of the gates his racquet is back into position so that when he arrives at the point where he will swing all he has to do is complete his shoulder turn and plant the foot. his strategy...to clear the net by a couple of meters which will give a bit of extra time to get his butt back into position to anticipate what will most likely be an attacking shot from his opponent. but even here a big part of the mcenroe game and tactics are revealed...even if his opponent has hurt him they are most likely not advancing on the net so if mcenroe can buy himself a little time with the high slower return he buys himself a pass to get back into the point...possibly.

BH Wide Front2- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...WideFront2.mov

here’s another case of urgency for the mcenroe backhand hence the extra early preparation with the racquet. big steps to the ball then a series of smaller measured steps and he arrives in very nice position for being in such a hurry. he may be trying some kind of passing attempt here and if i am not mistaken there is an audible clue that it hasn’t successfully cleared his opponents reach. at any rate...successful or not he has forced his opponent to win and not given him a gift of an error. the footwork may not be as elegant as federers but it is every bit as efficient...the racquet work is much more efficient.

BH Wide Side- http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...BHWideSide.mov

this is a beautiful angle of something a little special going on. at first i couldn’t quite make out what it was exactly that gave this particular stroke a slightly different look. after viewing it a number of times it seems to me that he has really lined this one up and given it a bit extra plus he has flattened it out somewhat. perhaps an attempt to drill one by an opponent who is camped out on the baseline or perhaps he has chased him wide to the forehand and is drilling this one up the line. or maybe he has his opponent leaning towards the forehand side and is simply going hard and deep behind him. the beauty of the whole mcenroe technique and tactical paradigm is the number of permutations and combinations that he has at his disposal. it’s enough to keep any tennis player guessing. hoping. wishing. praying.

**don_budge** · 01-01-2013, 11:08 PM

Thank you Stotty and tennis_chiro for your input...

Thanks guys...I cannot wait to get back and address your comments. But I cannot stop...the spirit is moving me. To write about the McEnroe game. Not only that but to live it as well. I am starting to line up the big guns in town. Today, tomorrow and Saturday. The acid test. After only three weeks of thinking...of studying...of writing...of practicing...of looking in the mirror. Rehearsing. I am putting this stuff where my keyboard is...my money where my mouth is. I have my doubts too...but I tell myself "what the hell?" Exciting stuff. It's an adventure within the confines of my own mind. I hardly have to leave the house. An exciting end to an otherwise extremely disappointing year. I won't get into it. Ah hell...we all had our ups and downs. Mine aren't anything special. Best to all of you...and yours. Hang in there. Fight back...and live to play another day! That's my motto. It's all that you can do.

But whatever...you cannot quit. As the patient looked at the comely nurse after she told him that he could never do the thing that he loved so passionately, which for him was rodeo riding, he calmly gazed into her lovely eyes and with all of the courage that God can bestow on any one man, I swear it's enough to make a grown man cry, he said..."I will find something that I love more."

Ok readers...my fingers need a rest. I keep them crossed in the meantime...all of the time. They have been doing this little tap dance for almost a year now and I am almost finished. Just a couple of more posts. The slice backhand next. A shot that is near and dear to my heart...one that I have loved all of my life and she rarely let me down. The McEnroe slice backhand...what a beautiful thing. Coming next...thank you for your patience. This all had to come out...it's my therapy you know.

Alright...back to the McEnroe backhand. Slice and dice. Death by a thousand cuts.

**stroke** · 01-02-2013, 06:47 AM

Tennis Chiro refers to the "beating the rug" drill for getting a feel for the inherant weakness of the McEnroe continental grip. This is certainly true. If one goes out with the ball machine, one can certainly strike the ball harder with stronger grips off both sides. The genius of the McEnroe continental style is the econony of stroke production. One way to get a feel for this style is to simply hit against a wall. Using only the continental, it is much easier to not feel rushed and to move naturally into and between forehands and backhands. I feel very strongly that McEnroe is the best over 50 player ever. It is even more evident of the genius of his game now, watching him on the Champions Tour, than it was in his prime.

I really like Don Budge's experiment into the Mac style. He is a perfect candidate. He has advised he is 58 years old, a teaching pro(certainly an advanced player, probably 4.5 or 5.0 USTA rated), and is able to get measurable feedback through competition. So far, he is very encouraged.

To me, Federer is the natural progression of the McEnroe, taking the ball early, economy of motion style. Fed uses what appears to be a similar grip structure to Mac on the backhand style, even when he hits topspin. His grip looks to me to more continental and less eastern that most one handers like Gasquet and Wawrinka. I think this enables him to take the ball earlier, as he does, than other one handers. And then there is the Fed forehand, the prototype type 3, a mild semiwestern, taking the ball early with that ecomomy of motion. Certainly nothing like Mac's, except the economy of motion. But that forehand is certainly harder to duplicate that Mac's. No one yet looks like Fed's. Most of us certainly don't feel anywhere close to effortless when we get is a topspin forehand rally, particulary with a younger player.

**bottle** · 01-02-2013, 09:19 AM

Great discussion. Everything seems new. Me, I have no intention of abandoning my eastern backhand. But I will continue with all the research on continental backhand (drives) started several years ago because of the great new information, mostly but not all from Steve. Perhaps the backhands themselves will get together some day and make a decision. Or insist on diversity.

I'm on the same page as tennis_chiro about what a flying grip change can do.
You can go ANYWHERE with that thing. On a BEE-LINE.

On the other hand, what fun it will be to hit some slices in which backswing goes back level in leisurely fashion and THEN bee-lines up to where he wants it.
You could be watching your opponent. And won't the grip structure be different-- flat wrist at last.

Better potential because delayed for different level backswings, also, I would say-- that being one of the very positive characteristics of McEnroe's backhand slices as Stotty so helpfully asserted.

**stotty** · 01-02-2013, 09:26 AM

Continental

Originally posted by stroke View Post

Tennis Chiro refers to the "beating the rug" drill for getting a feel for the inherant weakness of the McEnroe continental grip. This is certainly true. If one goes out with the ball machine, one can certainly strike the ball harder with stronger grips off both sides. The genius of the McEnroe continental style is the econony of stroke production. One way to get a feel for this style is to simply hit against a wall. Using only the continental, it is much easier to not feel rushed and to move naturally into and between forehands and backhands. I feel very strongly that McEnroe is the best over 50 player ever. It is even more evident of the genius of his game now, watching him on the Champions Tour, than it was in his prime.

I really like Don Budge's experiment into the Mac style. He is a perfect candidate. He has advised he is 58 years old, a teaching pro(certainly an advanced player, probably 4.5 or 5.0 USTA rated), and is able to get measurable feedback through competition. So far, he is very encouraged.

To me, Federer is the natural progression of the McEnroe, taking the ball early, economy of motion style. Fed uses what appears to be a similar grip structure to Mac on the backhand style, even when he hits topspin. His grip looks to me to more continental and less eastern that most one handers like Gasquet and Wawrinka. I think this enables him to take the ball earlier, as he does, than other one handers. And then there is the Fed forehand, the prototype type 3, a mild semiwestern, taking the ball early with that ecomomy of motion. Certainly nothing like Mac's, except the economy of motion. But that forehand is certainly harder to duplicate that Mac's. No one yet looks like Fed's. Most of us certainly don't feel anywhere close to effortless when we get is a topspin forehand rally, particulary with a younger player.

I was just trying to think of a better over 50 player than Mac...maybe Gonzales would have been....Gonzales when 43 yrs old beat Connors 6-1 6-1. I believe Gonzales stopped playing competitively in his mid-forties. But, no, you have to give it to Mac...at 50...unbelievably good. I'm not sure it's down to playing style more than sheer talent, though.

I think you are right about continental and economy. Extreme grips just demand a more physical game...hitting heavy topspin is a physical business. I use a continental grip for all my shots which works well in my own age group and 10 years below. Where I get in big trouble is on hard courts against much younger players who can really work the ball with topspin. It just doesn't work.

Mac against Djokovic or Nadal probably wouldn't work either. On a hardcourt he'd get eaten for breakfast. Genius or no genius. That backhand of his would be a weakness. On grass...proper, fast grass...hmmm...be interesting.

Federer's backhand grip does seem conservative, and much of the time he's not hitting with that much topspin. I have seen Fed many times at Wimbledon so I can say this from live experience. I don't know what his average backhand RPM rate is on grass or whether it differs to his RPM rate on hard or clay. He does hit high backhands better than Mac did...even Mac at his zenith. I suspect Fed's grip is slightly further round.

So interesting these Mac threads..."death by a thousand cuts"...that's a good way to describe a carving up by Mac.

**bottle** · 01-02-2013, 09:59 AM

Bird Balls

It is amazing how unhurried JM's backswing is in this sequence.

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http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_backhand/mac_backhand.html?MacBHCenterCourtLevelFront2.mov

I think, don_budge, you are right when you say, in your description of it: "...the feet first, the shoulders and then the racquet."

It could be that the only independent arm work at the beginning of this backswing, the down part, comes from curling the wrist.

Like you and all participants, apparently, I am excited by this whole discussion which for me is a return to earlier concern. How these things go in cycles.

The year of the continental. So long as not the year of the edsel. Yes.

I was thinking this morning about starting a new thread called "The Birdball Backhand" but changed my mind when I saw this thread.

Also, I know I've got too much on the mind for an exhaustive study of birdball structure right now.

On the other hand I know that a birdbrain is exactly what I need to play best tennis.

By "birdball" structure, I mean the little ball at the top of the humerus (but one must keep good humerus) in a human being-- from which I project that there must be something similar at the top of an avian wing.

The thought has arrived that long stringy muscles attached to offset points on this human ball to turn it in various directions, though vastly improbable, apparently is the actual case.

A small ball! An offset connection! Where's the leverage in that?

Besides, there isn't much force in a flapping wing. When a bird is in a fight, it uses its beak and its feet, surely realizing that its wings are useless once it failed to fly away.

I guess I'm talking here about a thick mat of bloodstained white feathers all the way down our long mountain drive halfway down High Knob in Virginia.

My ex and I stayed at the tennis club for five minutes too long. We therefore didn't get our pet featherfoot into its outdoors night cage in time.

The possum which took it down the driveway, across the road and into a hole in boulders couldn't have cared less about the wings thumping on its back.

It's a pretty horrible story, but what I'm trying to say here is that there isn't much force available to roll one's arm in a one-hand backhand.

So what you, don_budge, say about the JM backhand being almost all body must be true.

Please keep going with this. Already I'm receiving some clarification, I think, about the role of wrist.

Wrist as often has been established is unconscious and complicated.

Does wrist go forward? Backward? Does McEnroe always straighten wrist at contact? Does he ever leave it curled?

If one left it curled along with bent arm, wouldn't one create a longer (if weaker) lever for rolling topspin?

All I know for sure is that my 1,8.5 eastern backhand with concave wrist when viewed from the top could not feel any more different.

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My Thoughts on the McEnroe Backhand...

My Thoughts on the McEnroe Backhand...

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