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Fortunately, no one, including John McEnroe, needs to use eight steps every time, but a knowledge of how best to do it should prove useful.
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Last edited by bottle; 02-07-2013, 06:50 PM. -
I'm Not The Only One
Jeff Salzenstein certainly has examined sidestep initiated backhand footwork-- two handed or one handed-- in recent video.
Within this seditious scheme he presents all kinds of variation and fleshing out.
I'm loving this category, see it as making people quicker to the ball with less strain, but am especially attracted to fewer step variations off of my Nibble-Nibble Post # 75 in this thread.
The thing about McEnroe in the video being discussed there is that the inside leg doesn't re-position on first step, just extends.
The outside foot, the one farther from the ball, gets going sooner then. Unit turn in which foot splays, gets delayed, one might opine.
Oh, that's not John McEnroe? So sorry.Last edited by bottle; 02-08-2013, 07:42 AM.Comment
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How Fast does JM's Arm Fly?
Not very. But it does fly. This is my opinion du jour, of the day.
What informs such an opinion? An eastern backhand, in my case, which moves the arm very fast. I'm not going to give it up if it's the only shot of mine that a good player has trouble hitting back.
But John McEnroe in his autobiography YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS attributes much of his success in tennis to his use of his strong legs.
In sleuthing efforts, I've reached the conclusion, right or not, that JM-type modified continental backhand drive should work best if rotating hips help straighten arm and then wrist, and this hips turn then blends into and is diminished by extending legs.
So that is the plot. And a plot needs to be fleshed out. I plan to do it by slowing down the arm, so that it almost seems to hold the ball.Last edited by bottle; 02-11-2013, 10:11 AM.Comment
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From McEnroe to Laver...meet Rolf Almgreen
Things can get a little dicey when you try to change things up a bit. Oh I know that one of the biggest challenges in life is accepting change when you don't have any choice...fate comes knocking one day and suddenly everything is upside down and the world is spinning. Know what I mean? But anyways...when you go out and voluntarily embark on a change if for nothing else than something to do things can get a bit dicey.
I guess that I may be into this thing for some six weeks or so. Time seems to have lost it's meaning to me. It's concept. Don't ask. The minutes turn into weeks or even a lost year. An hour can become a month...or was it only yesterday? It doesn't matter to me. The time is lost on me...I have only to make the best of it. The time...to make the best of the time. I chose the McEnroe continental gripped topspin backhand to amuse myself. It has not been an easy road to hoe. Not at all. All by myself...with my imaginary or rather virtual friend bottle. He once said it was a lonely quest...everyone thought he was nuts. Or something to that effect.
I feel you John. I was sending out an SOS and apparently someone got the message in a bottle. Enter Rolf Almgreen. Rolf is a well traveled tennis coach and he is a ripe age of 74...bottle likes him already. Well, Rolf used to coach at the funny little club that I teach tennis at these days...years ago. I would see him riding around town on his bike sometimes. He would just sort of show up. It's a small town. People run into each other. Well it's not really that small. Besides, he and his best friend Stig-Erik play golf together at the Knistad Golf Club where I play and I would run into them from time to time. He is a bit of a crusty one...Rolf is. I won't get into it. Make that crusty and shrewd. I guess that it is quite alright to be crusty and shrewd if one is a tennis coach...and 74 years old.
Anyways...things were getting so dicey for me with this new backhand concept and a slew of other inconsequential details that are of interest only to me. Stupid stories. I already knew that I needed help but it didn't really occur to me until one day Rolf and Stig-Erik showed up when I had a class going and he wanted to buy some grip overlaps. After selling them to him...I should of just given them to him in hindsight...a light bulb went off in my noodle. Why not take some tennis lessons on the continental gripped backhand? If you hire a coach...hire one that is suited for the job. Rolf is obviously old school and familiar with the old Aussie tennis world so I figured he was a perfect fit. I called him and explained my project and he was intrigued.
He has worked with me on two occasions now. It has been great fun and I want to tell you all a little story about a tennis teacher who takes tennis lessons from another tennis teacher. Stay tuned. It is getting a little late here...I am going outside to howl at the moon and for a walk in the snow on this winter's night before I go to bed. Out in the woods. In the darkness. A lone wolf. The existential wolf. Sending out an SOS. A billion lost souls...I guess that I am not alone. Although maybe the only one with the McEnroe/Laver continental gripped topspin backhand on their minds. In their hallucination. In a dream. Trying to sleep...sleep well she said.
By the way...that wasn't a meteor that exploded over Russia today. It was a UFO that was shot down. To be continued.
Last edited by don_budge; 02-15-2013, 09:54 PM.Comment
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Happy Birthday to You...Dear Johnny Boy!
Happy Birthday to Johnny Boy...54 years young today. February 16, 2013! Feel free to post all of your birthday greeting to the wild one here.
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Paragraph one: No I don't think it's "something to do" but yes a form of adventurism.
Paragraph three: I certainly do like him.
Last paragraph: Can't wait for the next installment. Actual tennis lessons. It boggles the mind.Last edited by bottle; 02-16-2013, 09:26 AM.Comment
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Laver-McEnroe
Are there any differences in these backhands? If so, I'm not good enough to see them.
Last edited by bottle; 02-16-2013, 09:25 AM.Comment
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The Lessons...Part 1
Originally posted by bottle View Post
Yes...actual tennis lessons. Two so far...if I had it my way it would be eight days a week. Remember the old Beatles song...Eight Days a Week? It’s not enough to show I care. I was talking to Rolf and Stig-Erik before the second lesson and I was telling them how excited I was about taking a tennis lesson. I mentioned that if I could I would do it “eight days a week”. Such is my passion. They didn’t get it. They are Swedes. There is a word missing in the Swedish language. The word is passion.
Rolf has done tennis coaching time in Australia, Singapore, the United States and the Netherlands. Home of Nico Suave...or whatever his name was. Nabrug? Since I have started this dialogue with Rolf he has lent me three books...two out of three were of little consequence. The third however is titled...”Tennis for the Bloody Fun of it!”, a collaborative effort by Rod Laver, Roy Emerson and the writer of the crew, Barry Tarshis. The date on the inside cover is 10/12 1976...which in euro lingo translates into December 10th...funny eh, the month comes second. Did you know that the week begins on Monday too? In this book there are some pretty good shots of “The Rocket” ready to unfurl the backhand to top the ball. The book smells old...it is 36 years old.
At any rate...what is it between Laver and McEnroe and the continental gripped backhand? To put it simply...they both start forwards in the same position and they both follow through in the same position. Take a look at the video clip that you and I are so “enthralled” with according to our good man tennis_chiro. It’s a telling little story that clip is. There is a lot going on...for the discerning eye. McEnroe Magic. Let’s consider the point in the McEnroe backhand where the swing is going forwards. This is where things get a little dicey for me...there is some funny wiggle room here but it is of dire importance to get things right here if this is going to be a proper topspin drive.
Before McEnroe firmly plants his front foot he has taken the racquet back with the support of his right hand to where the racquet tip is directly in line with the “S” in Siebel on the opposite side of the court and the ball is approaching on a line that is directly opposite the side linesman’s right foot from the opposite side of the court. Notice how high he is holding the racquet...it is impossible to top the ball when the racquet is above the ball so that it must drop from this point. But as he moves into his front foot and he is pushing with his back foot he initiates a turn of the hips and this action levels the shoulders which in turn drops the racquet down into a position where it is below the ball. I believe that you would find that the Laver action is very similar if you do some stop action study on his swing. I have not done that yet.
There is point in my swing that everything feels retarded. I can really tell that there is something bad going to happen and it is because I am so used to slicing the ball that I don’t get my racquet down below the ball and therefore the continental grip on the racquet becomes an impossible impediment to topping the ball. I start my swing "over the top" by habit and the trick will be to get to come from the inside. Rolf has worked with me on getting that backswing down so that as I start my move forwards the racquet head is below the ball. A couple of the corrections that we have worked on is minimizing the dip of the shoulders...which has the effect of getting the racquet head up so high in the backswing and approaching it with more level shoulders. He has pointed out too...that it is possible to start the racquet up in the position that McEnroe has it if you can drop it in the manner that he does before he truly starts to go forwards. You can see the use of the McEnroe right hand and arm here to get the head to drop as his right arm is nearly straight down by his side when his right hand drops off of the racquet.
Now notice the position of the racquet head when the ball in the video is now opposite the linesman’s left foot from the other side of the court. This is a noticeable drop from the higher position that he started from and this is a move that must be rehearsed in increments in order to reprogram the body and brain from the natural tendency to slice to the more “unnatural” drive with this grip. From this position where McEnroe is with his racquet it feels just fine to drive...the problem for me is getting there. A couple of things that are helping are to make sure that the turn back into the backswing is accomplished with perfect synchronicity of the racquet going back with the shoulders. The backswing is a body motion more than it is a arm motion. At least this is what I tell my tennis students. Now I must take my own teaching to heart. This requires some practice and rehearsing. Another thing is to avoid trying to hard because this tightens the muscles in the forearms which will prevent the dropping action and will encourage drawing the racquet across the ball in a more defensive swing. Rolf has been encouraging me to relax.
To be continued...
Last edited by don_budge; 02-17-2013, 10:16 AM.Comment
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The Lessons...Part 1a
Just doing some homework...like a good tennis student.Originally posted by don_budge View Post
Before McEnroe firmly plants his front foot he has taken the racquet back with the support of his right hand to where the racquet tip is directly in line with the “S” in Siebel on the opposite side of the court and the ball is approaching on a line that is directly opposite the side linesman’s right foot from the opposite side of the court. Notice how high he is holding the racquet...it is impossible to top the ball when the racquet is above the ball so that it must drop from this point. But as he moves into his front foot and he is pushing with his back foot he initiates a turn of the hips and this action levels the shoulders which in turn drops the racquet down into a position where it is below the ball.
Another thing is to avoid trying to hard because this tightens the muscles in the forearms which will prevent the dropping action and will encourage drawing the racquet across the ball in a more defensive swing. Rolf has been encouraging me to relax.
I wish all of my students were just like me. My teacher speaks and I listen. But we are collaborating. I told him what I wanted to do before we started...he went through the teaching process and I am going through the student process. I know what I want to do...I know that I have to communicate it to my teacher and then I have to trust him. Up to a point. That point is to be determined in the future as one never knows...but so far so good. Rolf has an Australian accent when he speaks English. Sweden has the reputation of being the best English speaking country in the world where it is not the mother tongue. I find the Australian accent gives me some security as does his methodology and his terminology. We can relate to each other as teacher and teacher...and as student and student...and as teacher and student. Quite an interesting experience.
Here are two "enthralling" examples of what I am trying to accomplish.
The delicacy of trying to master this stroke is not to be underestimated. The contact point is not quite so far in front of the body as if one used a stronger grip so it changes things...quite a bit. The combination of the grip change and the contact point make a lot of logistical sense but it is rather confusing when you are trying to reprogram the brain. Golfers would understand the immensity of the project here. Changing the ball position of the golf ball in your stance is a rather big deal in itself and the stupid ball is just lying there at your feet. How hard could that be? Ask any golfer. No matter...it is only time and practice. I am just beginning to understand the reasons why after beating my brains out for the past six weeks. The coaching help is cutting down the learning curve immensely.
Notice that when McEnroe turns to the right for the topspin backhand he dips his left shoulder at the ball and his racquet is at its highest point in the backswing.
As he eases his weight into his front foot transferring from his back foot his hips start to turn towards the ball. As he turns his hips, his shoulders are starting to follow which has the effect of leveling them. By leveling the shoulders the racquet head has dropped down into a good position to go forwards into an upwards and sweeping motion...without doing either consciously or unconsciously with the arm or hands. There are still in a rather passive mode at this point. This is where I have run into a stumbling stone. My first impulse is to start the swing from the top of the backswing which will have the effect of drawing across the ball. A totally counterproductive move to creating topspin.
The opposite hand is helping or guiding the racquet head further down into position as the shoulders continue to rotate around the spine...the racquet is now following closely with the turning of the body. Since the contact point is near to the body the timing is pretty exact as to be late...is an error. Letting the racquet head drop from the highest point in the backswing is the goal now. Relaxation in the first part of the swing is a big key in order to not rush things and interfere with the racquet head dropping. Tension in the forearm and wrist is the Kiss of Death...which we don't want any part of.
This a somewhat a repetition of the previous post...I know that. Repetitive movements require repetitive reminders. Plus a good attitude. When my coach tells me that I have done something really well it surprises me how much that motivates me. I run back into position and show him how committed I am to the process. When he corrects me...I take it the right way. I run to the net for his advise...eager to please and eager to solve the problem. We stand in front of the mirror discussing everything to the last infinitesimal detail. It is a painstaking process and what a valuable lesson for a teacher...to be taught. To allow yourself to be taught. These days the lessons are coming from all different directions. Ok...I can deal with that.
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From Hogan to McEnroe...
Turning the lower body brings the hands down into position.
Last edited by don_budge; 02-17-2013, 10:19 AM.Comment
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Very good discussion, but some of the links aren't working. Just bring up the video so it's actually playing and then copy the url-- works every time. But when you try to copy a url you've successfully used before, you don't get the active link-- not until you see the video play. I know about this, having made the same mistake.
I have no qualms about writing and putting up a post before inserting any videos into it. Then, in edit mode, I bop around a few times until I have what I want.Comment
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Perfect. Do you and Rolf see a sequence between the shoulders taking racket low and arm straightening also for lowness or should it happen all at once?Last edited by bottle; 02-18-2013, 06:43 AM.Comment
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Lowering the Racquet Head with the Continental Gripped backhand...
This is a really good question and it leads me to wonder if you are experiencing some of the same problems that I am. I am reading into your question my problems...which are essentially on how to get my swing on track from the inside with the racquet head approaching the ball from an ascending arch...ala McEnroe. The object of these lessons are to get the wrist into the same position that McEnroe has it when his racquet head is at its lowest point in his backswing. Supinated and supercharged...loaded for bear!Originally posted by bottle View Post
Here are the two "enthralling" video clips that tell the story...the old good news bad news routine. The good news is that it can be done...the bad news is that it goes against conventional wisdom and old muscle memories. The conventional wisdom is that the racquet head should be above the hand when employing the continental grip...which of course encourages underspin.
There definitely is a very secure relationship between the shoulders and the racquet isn't there? Look how when he tilts his shoulders at the ball the racquet is tipped on virtually the same angle. Observe how that when the shoulders are level on their way back in the backswing and when the shoulders are level in the forward swing the racquet is level as well. Hmmm...very interesting.
See too how the right hand is on the throat of the racquet the whole time sort of monitoring or measuring the height of the racquet head throughout the whole swing from the unit turn to the point where it drops off by his right side. At this point he has the swing tracking from the "inside path to the ball" and the arm and racquet structure have the momentum to swing through the ball with the supinated wrist delivering the payload at just the right moment. This swing is a golfer's dream. Even though his right elbow "flies" just a tad from his side in the backswing it returns right next to his side and stays there as he delivers the club...I mean the racquet down the inside path to the ball.
Absolutely it is the shoulders that are governing the height of the racquet head...without interference from the impulsive moves of the arms, hands and wrist. The arm, hand, wrist and racquet structure remain largely passive until the thrusting of the legs, hips and turning of the shoulders get the whole structure swinging...just like a good golf swing. Once it is swinging there is no holding back and one gets the sensation that the racquet head if flying by you with a will of its own. The supinated wrist releases from the weight of the racquet head without any conscious effort from the hand and wrist. This requires a lot of self control to fight those nasty impulses to start the swing with a movement of the hand and arm.
As for the arm straightening I think that is merely a product or a result of the arm swinging coupled with the mental image of allowing the racquet head to approach the ball from below. Plus staying relaxed. No conscious effort to straighten the arm is necessary and it is a natural byproduct of the motion...the sequence of events. Since there is a lot of movement going on in order to get into position to a moving object and you dance with the ball the arm is going to have that kind of flex or play in it. If you were over a ball that was sitting still you probably would prefer to keep that arm straight throughout the swing as you would in your golf swing. Cha, cha...cha.
Yesterday for the first time the whole shebang started to make sense to my body and brain when I was rallying with a couple of 11 year old boys. They were hitting the ball just perfectly for me to get a bit of a groove on.
Rolf had me hitting the ball from a position where my shoulders were already level so that the impulse to start the swing with the racquet up in position did not start with a Kiss of Death move...initiating things with the hand and arm which would result in an over the top motion on the ball. It has to come from inside path. See how Johnny Boy's hand is traveling down the same path that the line of his feet make. That is some self control...who ever would of thought that anyone would say that about McEnroe.
I don't know if that answered your question but is surely made me think. All of the attributes of a great question which leads me to believe that you may just have some experience in journalism. How did I do Professor Escher? C+...?
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Delay, then Back Off the Delay
A+ . We'll both end up with backhands more compact than him and him and her and them. So nyah-nyah to them. Let's HUMILIATE them.
Delay is an essential feature of this and all tennis strokes.
One certainly cannot accuse John McEnroe of using a continuous loop.
No matter how spread out and connected his backswing, he stops his racket before beginning the forward swing.
If rear shoulder is a rising swell, the swell next will go down.
Another swell will rise on the front leg.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'm going to delay arm straightening until rise of the second swell today-- that is, if snow has sufficiently melted and dried at the base of the bangboard across from the new Community Center.Comment
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Report/Results
A good session marred only by a white-out as the new blizzard came in. "Lake effect, lake effect!"
The practice therefore was short enough so that I knew I was infallible.
Delay? What delay? The idea was from tennis writer John M. Barnaby. To solve any tennis challenge, BEND THE STICK THE OTHER WAY, a sort of Hungarian proverb.
Barnaby doesn't mean to break one's racket, but if, as in the present scenario, one is doing anything to start the arm swing or elbow unfurl or wrist unfurl, the racket or anything else or primal snarl too soon, then go to the opposite extreme and why wouldn't you?
When you know there's a pogo-jump at the top of every McEnroeish backhand? And people from Tilden on have told you to keep your ass away from the ball. Which means that in addition to lake effect there will be accordion effect? The front leg will extend but so will the body from leg on up. Which is Alexander effect. With all of it leading to good effect so long as you don't listen to people who are telling you to keep your head still. My ass! The head rises from a foot to a foot-and-a-half every time. Which isn't keeping it still.
Now if you want to find some other way to define personal head stillness, that would be okay, or perhaps you could keep head still in other shots.
Anyway, I was trying to delay too much, on purpose. To discover the outer limit of delay.
As could happen in the universe, however, the delay was the exact right amount!
I was using a Wilson Finn that belongs to Hope's former boyfriend, a guy so determined to drink himself to death that he succeeded. She got a painting, too, on the wall here in my studio. I looked at it for two years before I realized it was Helsinki, the place where the guy won his gold medal in swimming.
After the few but very nice white-outed backhands, I felt so good that I came home and took the retriever we are grand-sitting for a walk. We went by the Ford Tennis House. A voice cried out through a window. My echolocation wasn't too good. And then the voice was on the other side of a close window attached to a type A weasel tennis pro face (and an English teacher), the new master of the house, telling me there was no access past the building and pointing in the direction he thought we ought to go although I was five feet from home.Last edited by bottle; 02-19-2013, 01:15 PM.Comment
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