Merry Xmas from Oscar Wegner

[johnyandell]

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHwY-AQLm0s

[lobndropshot]

A few things that bug me about the video:

-Tennis is not easy.
-It will never be easy.
-There is nothing that will make tennis easy.
-There is no one right way to teach tennis.
-No one person can claim all of the success of another person.

[stotty]

Wegner...

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHwY-AQLm0s

Is he denying extension exists? Or inferring that it just happens another way...which doesn't seem possible. You can't yank across the ball and extend. Nadal definitely seems to extend straight out for a millisecond and there are clips in the archive to prove it. I guess the racket has to be coming around in an arc as it happens but this doesn't mean it's a yank and not extension.

He's provocative, isn't he? Name dropping like that. He could "talk the hind legs off a donkey" (English expression describing a non-stop talker). Of course Macci has evolved. Was he expected to know everything from the get-go? Who wouldn't evolve working with BG?

Interesting comment at the end of the clip, about the racket moves more quickly when a player moves backwards as he hits. Is that true? It must be a trade off, though. You get more body weight into the shot if you lean in, more racket speed if you lean back. Any truth in this assertion, John?

[johnyandell]

That's the craziest thing. Virtually nothing he claims is true including teaching Guga the one-hander. That was Larry Passos. The video is just a public shot at me and others after he got shredded time after time in the TW message board fights.

[klacr]

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHwY-AQLm0s

LOL! Oh Oscar!

Not worth fighting it.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

That's the craziest thing. Virtually nothing he claims is true including teaching Guga the one-hander. That was Larry Passos. The video is just a public shot at me and others after he got shredded time after time in the TW message board fights.

Yes, it is a swipe at you and others, but it's a minor one. Don't forget I'm detached from the TW spats...never witnessed any of them.

Oscar is all about self-promotion. He's a salesman, a businessman. He's offering an alternative and making a living out of it. He can't be seen to be agreeing with you and others because he makes a living out of offering an alternative view. He has to dream up ways of being an alternative or he's finished. So, yes, he has to swipe at you and others to promote his...well...product. It's tactical not personal. I realise if you are on the other end of his swipe it may feel very personal...but trust me it's tactical. It's is way of bringing attention to himself/business and perpetuating it.

He's had no real luck here in the UK as far as I can see. He has a franchise outfit that promotes his teaching philosophy and runs courses but they've had little impact over here.

Oscar has been around long enough. If the alternative teaching he offers worked as well as he states, then we'd all be using it...and we're not...we're not stupid...that's the bottom line.

[DougEng]

I met Oscar several times and even taught with him in a clinic. He has some good simple ideas. I wouldn't really call it modern tennis anymore, maybe in 1990. Find it and the move across the ball. Oscar's favorite line, find the ball. Basically he used a early model of "receive the ball" and "send the ball." He would also use the word push. I agree, to take the claim for creating Brazilian and Spanish tennis is a bit extreme.

Some other inaccuracies, of course. John can speak for himself and if you ever been to John's talks, he often leaves interpretation of high speed videos open. John lets the viewer watch and learn for himself. That's why all those early videos (Tennis Research Project) had no script. So Oscar saying John never pointed out Gordon and Macci's work, isn't appropriate here. It's like criticizing a painter because he doesn't do sculpturing. Anyhow, it's not good for Oscar to criticize Macci who has done far more developmental work.

On tennisplayer.net, Jeff Salzenstein actually teaches a bit like Oscar. He tries to simply things, even if a dirty diaper. But Jeff is very easy-going, open-minded, accessible and user-friendly like Will Hamilton. I mention Jeff because he also likes to emphasize the swing across. Yes, the across component is natural due to internal shoulder rotation and angular momentum.

About Will Hamilton and FYB. I met Will at his first PTR Symposium and was supposed to introduce him (but I switched). Will was relatively new to tennis instruction when he started FYB and was unfamiliar around the tennis industry scene. I mentioned a few top coaching names to speak to help him out for FYB resources, etc (he probably doesn't even remember). Anyhow, he has a wonderful down-to-earth way of explaining things and knows what his audience wants. He has a local pro (an "expert", well, Yann does do a very good job). Yann says some very good (mostly) stuff about footwork. Oscar states that he discovered all the footwork back in 1989 when he wrote his book. Actually Oscar's book says nothing about footwork except using natural footwork and an open stance without stepping into the ball. Oscar didn't go into the details Yann does and Oscar actually avoids teaching footwork because as he says, why should he, since everyone already learned how to walk since they were 2-3 years old. So Oscar's claim on Will and FYB is inaccurate.

About speeding up the swing when stepping backward. Using body weight stepping into the ball potentially creates the most power, but it's not necessarily suited for tennis which requires spin, too. Compare a baseball pitcher stepping down and forward, the classic pitch lunge-steps before arriving in the late cocking stage of the arm. In tennis, that doesn't happen because spin is a major factor and the necessity of hitting upwards on the serve is paramount. Racquet head vectorial velocity (I mean that speed directed effectively at the ball, we are getting into physics here) ultimately is the final say on power. So yes, it is possible to step backwards and hit the ball very hard due to angular momentum. When stepping backwards, remember loading is being created. In power, this is known as a countermovement using the stretch-shorten cycle. When one steps backwards and down, it creates ground force in the opposite direction of the ball and hence, an anchor for power.

[blake_b]

It is obvious that Oscar has never studied high speed video of the pros. The following clip of Federer contradicts many of Oscars teachings.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...de1_250fps.mp4

Federer's swing extends in the direction of the ball, and his right foot also moves forward.

[johnyandell]

Sttoty,

Yeah a good perspective.

Blake,

You think?


Anyway the issues go back over 10 years...just think of it as my hobby--crusader for the truth...

[don_budge]

My thoughts...

Petty and irrelevant. Oscar, John...Much Ado About Nothing!

[bottle]

Percy Boomer is my guy-- centrifugal vs. centripetal forces. Consciously develop the conflict between them to shortcut a lot of excessive detail, which is the bane of tennis thought, along with too sparse detail. Then, this way, when you've figured out the racket head speed you want, add or subtract some body weight going through the ball depending on the shot.

[jryle1]

Wow. I just finished watching the video and, it is a strange video. Now, I have to admit that when it comes to teaching tennis, especially technique I am terribly biased towards tennisplayer.net. I started studying this site when I was about 16 and in 4th year in school. I'm now in 2nd year in University, 20 years of age and a Level 1 tennis coach in Ireland and I still find myself in awe of this place. So, sometimes I wonder to myself if my stance on teaching tennis is a bit clouded by the fact that my main loyalty lies here. Maybe sometimes I need to be more open, but, having explained that, after watching that video I must admit I am shocked.
Oscar's stance on pulling across the ball and not extending through the ball astounds me. Every coach I have ever worked with or met has never doubted extension. Even the head coach in my club who is very experienced, he's been coaching since the 1970's, has worked in India, New Zealand, Australia, England and now Ireland and I'm sure many other places as well, teaches his students to hit 3 tennis balls and extend through. He's a really good coach technically but I do have disagreements with him especially on the "Downward snap of the wrist". He is adamant that this is still the source of power.
Anyway, I seem to be going off on a tangent in this post. My main point is that I'm truly shocked my the childishness of Oscar in this video in terms of the name dropping. Also, I find it very strange that a man with his level of success can so arrogantly state that there is no extension in the "Modern Forehand". I think it's clear to anybody that has studied the pros of today that they do extend through the ball and also incredibly well.
I wouldn't take it personally John, I know it seems like a cheap shot maybe, and appears critical of you and some other coaches but I think any coach with common sense who has studied the top pros in slow motion can clearly see that there is extension.

Jono.


On a side note, I hope everyone on tennis player has a Merry Christmas and a Happy, prosperous New Year and I'm really looking forward to a great 2013 filled of tennis and more great Tennis Player issues and thanks to all the subscribers and contributors who make this such a wonderful site.

[bottle]

Now Calm Down, Just Relax

Okay. As a result of jryle1's (Jono's) post, I went back and re-watched the supposedly strange video, this time not just for the technical provocations which always make any interchange with Oscar so much fun, but to look for whatever drove a considerable number of people even nuttier than usual.

Guess what? The psychological provocation isn't there. Not if the person being provoked harbors the slightest bit of sophistication.

All tennis pros self-promote. If they don't, they don't get business. Me, I'm terrible at it. Maybe ten people read my first tennis book. And I expect maybe seven people to read my second tennis book which I expect to go up in the Kindle Store in the coming week.

See: I'm not even telling the title. Nor my authorial name. Because I'm lousy at self-promotion. So you won't read my new book, Jono-- ono, ono (and you probably wouldn't like it anyway).

Well, the main lesson from Tennis Player's beginning-- in its main sections and on one of its promotion pages, if not in its forum pages-- is that one picture is worth a thousand words.

So I'll attach one picture to this post, to try and explain that feature of Oscar's technical substance which shocked you so much.

If you noticed my previous post in this thread, you probably thought since I said Percy Boomer was my guy, that Oscar was not my guy. But both guys are saying the same thing. And so is the attached picture.

The reason that Goliath's death throes have begun is that the rock hit his forehead very hard and even bit through his flesh because of so much spin.

Forget Christmas, everybody. It's over. May you find good centripetality in the coming year.

Note: I certainly hope, Jono, that you have found the present post very strange.

[jeffreycounts]

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...tor/attach.gif

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHwY-AQLm0s

John shows the crucial arm position of maximum pro extension for Safin, Hewitt, and Guga in his article "The Myth of the Wrap". What you see in these pro forehands at full extension is the upper arm parallel to the ground with the elbow pushed forward well in front of the body. This is the critical movement of extension through the ball.

With the junior players in the article you see the elbow pressed in tight to the body with no extension. This is what happens when you "come across" the ball rather than pushing through it.

Another interesting difference is the face of the racket for the pro examples in the article. The face of the racket continues to face the net as the arm extends forward (and lifts upward) for many frames while the tip of the racket holds back. With the juniors the tip of the racket quickly comes across the body.

John covers this equally in his article "Common Elements Across the Grip Styles"

I don't think it gets much clearer than this. Pro forehand - elbow extends forward and upward through the ball. Inferior forehand - elbow is in tight to the body as the racket and arm come across the ball rather than through it. How long ago did John write those articles???

[jeffreycounts]

Actually a really nice example of extension, with the elbow and upper arm reference points, can be seen on the current new issue (Dec) page with Andy Murray: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...2012/december/. Look at the upper arm parallel to the ground, elbow in front of the body at full extension.