Offensive and defensive two handed backhands

[julian1]

Please click

http://www.tennisresources.com/index.cfm?area=video_detail&vidid=4246

[stotty]

Nice find Julian.

I'd like to pose a question here: Does the kid in the first clip have the racket back a little too early...he has such a long pause? I generally discourage kids from "hanging" the racket back so early...better the racket is taken back equal...the same...in relation to the speed of the incoming ball...maybe slightly earlier on slow, high balls...but not as early as the boy in the clip.

Anyone think differently?

[DougEng]

Pause on the Offensive Backhand

Nice find Julian.

I'd like to pose a question here: Does the kid in the first clip have the racket back a little too early...he has such a long pause? I generally discourage kids from "hanging" the racket back so early...better the racket is taken back equal...the same...in relation to the speed of the incoming ball...maybe slightly earlier on slow, high balls...but not as early as the boy in the clip.

Anyone think differently?

First, Mark Bey is friend and an excellent coach working out of Chicago. So given this video is just trying to illustrate a couple situations, it's not ideal or an answer to every offensive/defensive situation. I actually teach basically the same things but slightly different fine points.

I would venture to say this one is good example of an offensive forehand but not the best or ideal. The best example of the offensive backhand is well inside the baseline with the mule kick. The first player tried to do a bit of it from the baseline where it's not truly offensive and too deep to really make that move unless he was 6'6" and the ball was sitting quite high. Basically the left leg (you can see he tried to get a bit of left leg up) goes up a la Captain Morgan Rum pose. In that case, there is often a natural pause in the backswing due to balance. The mule kick and pause does: 1) increases the flatter angle as it allows a higher contact point and natural slightly downward swing, 2) some deception or possible change of direction (freeze the opponent which is sometimes a neglected skill). During the pause, the racquet may not truly stop but the player is using a stretch-shorten (Vic Braden's pre-stretch) cycle to align the racquet into the slot from a high position. So the pause can be natural as long as Captain Morgan flag flies or like the forehand dynamic slot. Too long a pause reduces the stretch-shorten cycle and natural dynamic balance (it's on one leg).

Hope this helps.

[stotty]

Pause

First, Mark Bey is friend and an excellent coach working out of Chicago. So given this video is just trying to illustrate a couple situations, it's not ideal or an answer to every offensive/defensive situation. I actually teach basically the same things but slightly different fine points.

I would venture to say this one is good example of an offensive forehand but not the best or ideal. The best example of the offensive backhand is well inside the baseline with the mule kick. The first player tried to do a bit of it from the baseline where it's not truly offensive and too deep to really make that move unless he was 6'6" and the ball was sitting quite high. Basically the left leg (you can see he tried to get a bit of left leg up) goes up a la Captain Morgan Rum pose. In that case, there is often a natural pause in the backswing due to balance. The mule kick and pause does: 1) increases the flatter angle as it allows a higher contact point and natural slightly downward swing, 2) some deception or possible change of direction (freeze the opponent which is sometimes a neglected skill). During the pause, the racquet may not truly stop but the player is using a stretch-shorten (Vic Braden's pre-stretch) cycle to align the racquet into the slot from a high position. So the pause can be natural as long as Captain Morgan flag flies or like the forehand dynamic slot. Too long a pause reduces the stretch-shorten cycle and natural dynamic balance (it's on one leg).

Hope this helps.

I understand the concept of the "steadying up" pause on high balls...the kid in the clip seems to pause a little too long.

The mule kick was new to me as a coach, as was using the pause for deception and to "freeze the opponent"....love that term.

Thanks for the input, Doug. I've learned some new stuff from you, as always.

[jbill]

Licenscedcoach,

I'd like to make a comment or two with respect to your observation of the first player bringing his racquet back too soon. My coach has actually taught me to set my racquet back early just like this kid does. The main purpose of this early racquet preparation I believe is to avoid late contact with the ball. My coach teaches that a player should put the racquet back in this set position as he/she comes down from the split-step. He/she should then move either laterally or forward with the racquet back in that set position. (Both the Williams girls do this as well as others.)

I have found this technique has definitely helped me to make contact more consistently out in front of my body. Also, generally speaking, what happens with this technique is somewhat dependent on the speed of the incoming ball. When the speed of the ball picks up there tends to be more fluidity going through this racquet-back set position and less of any type of pause.

I believe that is one reason you noticed so much pause in the first player's racquet prepartion; he was hitting feed balls that had relatively little pace.

One other small point to consider. Have you ever noticed how professional baseball players at bat, wait for the incoming pitch with their bat already back? Their technique still incorporates a very effective stretch/shorten cycle wihich leads to big power. All of this with the baseball bat already set back before the swing has begun, no big loop of any kind.

Jim Bill

[jbill]

Early racquet preparation

Licensedcoach,

One other thing I forgot to mention is the idea that early racquet preparation, such as we are talking about, helps to keep the stroke more compact and consequently more consistent. When you have prepared your racquet putting it back in this set-position early on, you will avoid having too big a stroke that is trying to put too many parts together all at the same time which often results in unforced errors.

Jim Bill

[stotty]

Finicky me...

Licensedcoach,

One other thing I forgot to mention is the idea that early racquet preparation, such as we are talking about, helps to keep the stroke more compact and consequently more consistent. When you have prepared your racquet putting it back in this set-position early on, you will avoid having too big a stroke that is trying to put too many parts together all at the same time which often results in unforced errors.

Jim Bill

The first four shots in the clip look fine, the last three look too early...and, yes, doing it for the camera, off fed balls, may have been the reason.

When I teach the shot, I teach it like the first four...but discourage what happened in the last three. I believe in preparing in relation the speed of the ball coming at you...it promotes better rhythm.

Your coach is dead right, early preparation is very key...I'm just being finicky...splitting hairs.

Doug Eng's post on the subject is monumentally good...deception...freezing the opponent. These are great insights...

BTW...I'm a Brit...no baseball over here...so cannot comment...hardly ever seen the game played.

[jbill]

Bat already back

Licensedcoach,

So I'm curious. How do you think the baseball batter finds his rhythm in swinging at a pitch since he basically has no take-back to lead into his forward thrust. I don't know myself. I'm just curious what you might think.

Jim Bill

[stotty]

Licensedcoach,

So I'm curious. How do you think the baseball batter finds his rhythm in swinging at a pitch since he basically has no take-back to lead into his forward thrust. I don't know myself. I'm just curious what you might think.

Jim Bill

Knowing nothing about the game, I suspect there is simply no time for a take-back. The pitcher is close and throws the ball at a speed that doesn't allow backswing...that's it. But when I think about it, there must be some sort of coil up...mini loop...loading.... or something...to store up elastic energy....it can't be from purely a forward swing, can it?

You will have to tell me. I know zero about the game.

[jbill]

set position racquet back and rhythm

Licensedcoach,

Yes, there's definitely a loading up and a transfer of weight in a batter's swing just like in a tennis groundstroke. Yeah, I would say "mini-coil" is a good way to put it where a batter achieves the stretch/shorten cycle. Actually, my coach used the batter analogy to explain to me how I could already have my racquet back in a set position early on and still achieve power and pace with a quick start-up loop. I think his point is if you immediately get the racquet back and prepared early you will minimize unforced errors.

I know what you are talking about, though, with respect to feeling a rhythm. I had that trouble at first when I tried to mimick the form he was suggesting. It felt strange at first having the racquet already back, but after a while I found that I was adjusting to making a very quick turn-around loop as I dropped the racquet head down and came forward and up on the ball. It's just a different kind of rhythm, because you are absolutely right; you definitely have to feel some kind of rhythm in order to time your contact point.

I just think this type of technique helps one to have a more compact swing and be more consistent with the point of contact. Often now, I feel that I am waiting for the ball which I like. I don't feel so rushed. Also, too, this is very similar to preparing to hit a high bouncing short ball. You want to get up to that ball quickly, moving forward with your racquet already back, ready to make that forward swing when you arrive.

Jim Bill

[stotty]

Licensedcoach,

Yes, there's definitely a loading up and a transfer of weight in a batter's swing just like in a tennis groundstroke. Yeah, I would say "mini-coil" is a good way to put it where a batter achieves the stretch/shorten cycle. Actually, my coach used the batter analogy to explain to me how I could already have my racquet back in a set position early on and still achieve power and pace with a quick start-up loop. I think his point is if you immediately get the racquet back and prepared early you will minimize unforced errors.

I know what you are talking about, though, with respect to feeling a rhythm. I had that trouble at first when I tried to mimick the form he was suggesting. It felt strange at first having the racquet already back, but after a while I found that I was adjusting to making a very quick turn-around loop as I dropped the racquet head down and came forward and up on the ball. It's just a different kind of rhythm, because you are absolutely right; you definitely have to feel some kind of rhythm in order to time your contact point.

I just think this type of technique helps one to have a more compact swing and be more consistent with the point of contact. Often now, I feel that I am waiting for the ball which I like. I don't feel so rushed. Also, too, this is very similar to preparing to hit a high bouncing short ball. You want to get up to that ball quickly, moving forward with your racquet already back, ready to make that forward swing when you arrive.

Jim Bill

Interesting stuff...thanks for all that, Jim.