The Traditional Forehand: A Living Model

[tennislearningforlife]

Pete Sampras did not change his swing

Hello great coaches....

well, I believe top players in the world.. if they wanted.. they can change the swing in few days. Just like so many pros do change their serve and stroke. When you watch old footage of Nadal, he hits bit differently from today.

Sampras or even Agassi will not change the stroke because they are really good with their swing and has beaten many wiper swing people. Many from Spain.

Windshield wiper swing has been there for long time. To me "Modern game" is having incredible racket head speed with tremendous spin without losing pace.

Think...... if you can hit 7 iron 200 years VS you hit 3 iron 200 years then of course you have so much edge if you can hit 7 iron 200 years.. Today guys clear the net 4-5 feet above the net and yet still hit over 90mph and with incredible jump on the shot. I think that's modern game.

Back to the subject and all the teaching... so if we imitate wiper swing then it will be better for club payers??? answer is yes and no... wiper swing will be very much less effective if you don't have racket head speed. and majority of club players can't hit like pros so ball will sit up.. so classic swing is good? i would say less thing can go wrong but since net clearance will be lower so sometimes it is very scary to hit that shot....

And I believe that one of the biggest down side about classical swing is that you have to adjust the swing path when ball gets high. It is easier when ball is slow and high but what if someone hit high jumping shot with pace? It goes out of strike zone.....

On the other hand wiper swing is easier to adjust any height of the ball and easier to flatten out also...

[don_budge]

Bells and whistles...

I happen to live in Marin County, CA and when we moved here a few years ago, I found Scott's website, connected with him and began to work with him.

Over the last couple of years, I had gone through wanting to hit a more modern stroke and Scott walked me through all that that meant. Unfortunately for me, I had some shoulder issues (at first, my non-racquet arm, and later my racquet arm). I had to step away from the game for a few months earlier this summer due to cataract surgery, but when I returned just a few weeks ago, Scott began to help me again with what had been my floundering forehand. He started me back to basics and with much of what he outlined in the article.

On Sunday, when John emailed about the new issue of TP.net I learned that my subscription had lapsed. However, I saw that Scott had an article in this issue so I had to immediately resubscribe.

I read the article with great pleasure as it spoke to many of the things Scott and I had been working on. I've also had the pleasure of meeting Karsten a couple of times and have seen him hit with Scott. The guy doesn't miss and he's got plenty of power. While I'm a little older than Karsten, the idea of simplifying my strokes to the more traditional end of the continuum appealed greatly.

I had recently been sharing with Scott that I've finally decided to rely more on my far more reliable slice backhand than continue to frustrate myself with my lack of consistency with a flat/topspin backhand. The removal of that extra mental friction on grip change, backswing, etc. has worked well for me and has also given me a lot more confidence overall.

The other thing that I'd point out is that on the forehand side, I know that I was falling victim to trying too hard to mimic the wiper without the necessary extension. So again, I moved toward simplicity and got back to basics with an emphasis on the extension. It has improved both my consistency and power.

I was at Scott's court today for a session and it all seems to be coming together.

I'm glad to hear that others have found it useful too.

Regards,
-Bob

I love the tone of your collaboration together. As a tennis coach you are either teaching someone from the ground up...repairing some years of damage or merely trying to enhance upon what you are working with or coaxing the student (or voters) into change they can believe in. Throw some therapy into the mix sometimes.

If it isn't broken, why bother to try and fix it? There isn't any real need for the bells and whistles just for the sake of adornment. At the expense of soundness? Great testimony to your coach, Bob!

The new fangled way is probably over rated much as fads and fashions are. As John Yandell points out, are we supposed to change our philosophy about the swing every time there is a new "King of the Hill" these days? Listen...the sheer nature of playing tennis has changed with the equipment that is all that there is to it and it looks like it is here to stay.

Yesterday, I brought out an old wood racquet for a couple of my students to try. I keep it around to measure the height of the net. Alright...I confess, I cannot let her go. My weakness for the feminine. Even the love of an old wooden racquet. Everything that I love or even become attached to turns into a She somehow...well except my dogs Frankie and Dylan. You should of seen the look of disbelief in my student's eyes...they asked, "you used to play with this"? You would of thought that I was asking them to use a dial phone instead of their iPhone. You would of thought they had seen a living dinosaur. I'll show you rock and roll you little stinkers, I thought to myself. So dumbed down it is scary. They would quit the game tomorrow if they had to use it. Too much effort required.

Guys like Karsten, "a living model" as if he is some kind of dinosaur...there are a lot of them out there just like him. Old school and as tough as nails. Anyone that sparred with Johan Kriek is no slouch...that much is for sure. You think they are impressed with these high backswings from the baseline...not so much as they are thinking hitting hard and low and coming in behind it at every opportunity. I am willing to bet on his service motion and volleying skills too...they are probably pretty damn good. Check out that idiosyncratic move of his left hand in the forehand video...very interesting. He's catching his follow through for God's sake...I teach that to beginners. I want that other hand on the racquet as soon as possible...to recover to ready position for the next shot.

Check out "Match Play and Spin of the Ball" authored in the 1920's. All of those modern swings are depicted in the photographs in that "Tennis Player's Bible" according to Hopman and the rest of the Aussies from his era. Western grips, unigrips, wild follow throughs over the head helicopter style. Nothing new under the sun...to my eyes.

There is a reason for the prevalence of the "modern" swing...but it's only based on physics and not some miraculous evolution of the species. Bigger racquet equals more freedom to miss the sweet spot therefore more liberties with all of the rigamarole. Backswings, spins, follow throughs. Try all of the bells and whistles on with a wooden racquet and see how it fits. Wiper...my you know what. But of course "wipers" and "wrap arounds" are suitable for the modern equipment and wonder strings. It's often a question of why not take the liberty if given the opportunity. Or for some...why takes chances with your romances?

lobndropshot is right I think...in the sense that there is much to the plot of this story. It's true that you cannot measure the current word processor driven drivel compared to the hand written Dostoyevsky either. There is more to it than meets the eye that is for sure. I think it makes for a fascinating discussion. Thanks Scott, Bob and Karsten...it's a great story and I am certainly looking forwards to the next chapter!

[stotty]

Hmmm...

Some key points:

Classic seems to be only one step away from modern, and sometimes modern happily morphs back to classic. A good example of this is Del Potro in October’s interactive thread. I really don’t think Del Potro’s forehand is that far away from Karsten's. Del Potro has a fairly straight back, uncluttered backswing? His grip doesn’t look too extreme (looks eastern) and he has a high follow through on both forehands in the clip. He clearly uses a more open stance than Karsten's. Del Potro is a modern player but you’re only talking tweaks here and there and you can turn him to classic. A tweak here and there could also turn Karsten to modern. Things really haven’t changed that much.

Even years ago, classic could turn into modern to a certain extent when play became pressurised. Bill Tilden in his book How to Play Better Tennis (written in 1950) stated hitting of the “wrong foot”, as he terms it, when a player hadn’t the time to get his feet into the desired position was acceptable….though not to be copied by lesser players. Tilden appreciated it’s balance that counts. If you can maintain balance you can hit shots from anywhere. After reading Bill Tilden’s book you get the impression no one has ever thought longer or harder about the game. It’s written in a very human way and nothing compares to it today. Can you imagine Federer Nadal or Djokovic writing an equivalent instructional book for the general tennis population today? I think it unlikely.

One imagines most changes in pro tennis were “forced”. More extreme grips probably came about because children started playing younger and because hardcourt tennis became more prevalent. Open stances probably came about because of more extreme grips….more powerful rackets...and having less time to prepare. I don’t know this to be fact, I’m merely assuming it. These “forced” changes don’t have to apply to the rest of us (the vast majority) and there is a strong argument that classic remains to best way to teach most of the tennis population. On the other hand some players may be better off adopting certain parts of the modern game. Things like this are very individual. Players lower down the chain can take there pick from modern and classic...whatever works best. As the article says, don’t change to modern just for the sake that it’s modern.

I notice that that at the end of Karsten’s backswing where the “flip” is about to occur, he breaks his wrist back far less than Djokovic does in the clip also featured in the article. It’s a lot less wristy it seems. I wondered if this is due to his classic technique? Anyone out there know? No wonder the shot is solid. Using less wrist would make a shot more reliable...but one imagines a little less powerful.

[bman]

Very enjoyable article. I actually don't think his forehand looked all that "old school". Just solid.

[don_budge]

The Book is Tilden...

Even years ago, classic could turn into modern to a certain extent when play became pressurised. Bill Tilden in his book How to Play Better Tennis (written in 1950) stated hitting of the “wrong foot”, as he terms it, when a player hadn’t the time to get his feet into the desired position was acceptable….though not to be copied by lesser players. Tilden appreciated it’s balance that counts. If you can maintain balance you can hit shots from anywhere. After reading Bill Tilden’s book you get the impression no one has ever thought longer or harder about the game. It’s written in a very human way and nothing compares to it today.

You have no idea what a great joy it is for me to hear the licensedcoach quoting Bill Tilden and expressing such a genuine respect and appreciation for his writings. I am particularly happy and somewhat proud because perhaps it was me that convinced him to do so. Congratulations my friend!

The most amazing aspect of these writings is the effect it will have on you and your perspective on the game of tennis. From now on I anticipate a change in your posts from the new love and appreciation you will have for the game of tennis that comes from reading the old master himself.

There is no modern tennis, it is only an engineering feat of man...classical tennis itself was constantly "evolving". In the end...at the end of time. When it is all said and done there is only one and always will be only one...tennis. My true love.