For alexandrafranco...Thoughts on the Service Motion

[don_budge]

don_budge, I struggle with my backswing, and am trying to understand what you wrote in this post.Do you mean the racquet tip faces the ground and follows a parallel path to your body?and how do you get to trophy position?and what do you mean by falling motion? In other words, can you please help me with the backswing of the serve. What is the most efficient path? racquet/hand positions? I have a tendency to open the wrist and get a waiter's serve.. so I find in a ampler backswing more can go wrong with wrist and was trying to imagine I have a back wall so I go from arm down to just past my back leg and then into trophy position. Is what you advocating similar to Feliciano Lopez backswing?or now Djokovic? Do you have posts on the progressions of the serve? Thank you

alexandrafranco...I wrote those comments regarding a post #1307 in bottle's "New Year's Serve" thread. He has posted some pictures of Don Budge's service motion that are really classic.


Here are a couple of threads that the bunch of us had a great time working together on. They are called..."Let's develop a serve" submitted by licensedcoach and "Serve Snaps the Wrist". We sort of did these threads in progressions as you put it. Any questions?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1981

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=14602&highlight=serve+snaps+wrist#post14602

There isn't much to criticize about Feliciano Lopez' backswing...except maybe that little move he makes with his wrist at the beginning of his backswing.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/feliciano_lopez/fl_serve/1st_serve/1st_serve.html?

I will reprint my posts from the two threads...just to save space. There were some excellent posts from the other coaches on the forum and these two threads are two of my favorites since I became aware of the forum here on TennisPlayer.net.

[don_budge]

Let's Develop a Serve...Part 1 thru Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPRgAW3lf4w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEEoN2m-BJk

licensed coach submitted the two video's and the thread morphed from there.

PART 1

"Can you spot the problem with this serve?"

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

Just a couple of things...

First of all, I would say for his age (how old?) he looks like he has a very fine basis for the service motion. Nice long backswing and most importantly, a nice big loop behind his back which is one of the biggest factors in developing a service motion.

You could leave it at that...there isn't anything really "wrong" with his motion but if he wants to improve I would suggest the following.

As Don suggests, it appears to me that his rhythm is less than optimal. He initiates his motion with a pull on the racquet whereas I like to see the motion initiated with a "dropping" of the racquet head. At the same time his throwing hand is in a funny position to begin with...but he corrects it in the middle of the motion as he correctly delivers the ball to serve it. Why not begin with the hand in the correct position, drop the racquet head and the rhythm issue is improved?

I don't care for his set up in the sense that it is a bit lackadaisical with little attention to his "aiming". Aiming is largely a product of setup as it is in the golf swing. Think, "Zen in the Art of Archery" by Eugen Herrigel. I realize that he is young and just "going through the motions" for the camera but with such a fine motion, if he is mature enough to start thinking about the more intricate aspects of the swing, so much the better.

Since his motion is very good as it stands I would recommend the Stan Smith video where he discusses the number of targets that one can envision when serving against an opponent. Once he understands the importance of the setup with regard to aiming and then begins to practice aiming his serve, I believe you will see significant improvement.

My recommendations are to scrutinize his setup, initiate the swing with a drop of the racquet head, practice serves with intent (aiming at targets) and begin to develop tactics when serving to different opponents.

I like the motion and wish that I had half a dozen in my program just like him.

PART 2

It's developed alright...it's more like fine tuning at this point.


develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

With regard to his set up...I recommend that he start with a ratio of 70/30 of his weight distribution from the front foot to the rear foot. Take a look at Federer’s setup...he begins with his right foot poised on his toe. See how that just by turning his shoulders Federer accomplishes a total transfer to a 30/70 ratio of weight from his front foot to his back foot.

The power that you are searching for lies in this transfer of weight...and the inherent rhythm. In the setup and pre-serve routine I recommend setting the racquet more forward which will also move his tossing hand into a better position... then bobbing the racquet head up and down with both hands (engaging the shoulders and the rest of the body to do their work) two or three times and on the final bob let the head of the racquet drop...as the racquet head drops, the transfer of weight begins with the turning of the shoulders. Bobbing the head of the racquet is the equivalent of waggling the head of the golf club, which is ultimately paramount in the initiation of the motion from a static position.

The slow and methodical weight transfer that characterizes a McEnroe serve:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_serve/mac_1st_serve/mac_1st_serve.html?Mac1stSDeuceFront2.mov

The slow and methodical weight transfer that characterizes a Federer serve:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_serve/rf_1st_serve/rf_1st_serve.html?RF1stSAdCourtLevelRear1.mov

I think that you will be surprised how much more fluid the motion will appear with these two changes. The service is a chain reaction with each preceding move designed to initiate the next. His present setup is designed to somewhat hinder a long fluid backswing, giving him the appearance of a more woodeny posture than he actually has.

Two very nice things that the young man does is maintaining the path of his racquet head and staying on track in a line with his feet until it “drops” behind his back creating a nice full circle behind him. The delivery of the racquet head to the ball is quite nice also as evidenced by the nice "pop" sound with every hit.

There is easily another 30% more potential energy to be realized with a fuller backswing that is simply accomplished with a smooth and complete transfer of weight. This will encourage him to swing his shoulders back away from the ball on the backswing, then back to on the delivery.

With regard to the video evidence...there is one very important aspect of the serve that is missing in all of the footage. That is the walk up to the baseline that the player makes on his journey to the serve. It is very interesting to watch the routines and waggles that they use to prepare themselves for this explosive motion. Serving comes with an attitude and this attitude is often expressed in how players approach the baseline to serve. You can often see which players mean business in their approach to their setup...hopefully the attitude is one that clearly says, "you can't touch this". I would omit any player that bounces the ball more than three times...however.

PART 3

Michael Stich and Stefan Edberg...setup and weight transfer

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

In your infinite wisdom...you have selected two players with very effective service motions, with Stich's being the more classic of the two and therefore more worthy of imitation or of being an example to an aspiring young protege. Both of them exhibit the weight transfer that I was trying to persuade you that is so important for your young charge in order that he can incorporate the key things that are important to you into his swing.

http://youtu.be/cf2vjXP_cHg?t=35s

Take a look at the Edberg serve at 3.43 in the clip...and the setup at 5.17. Since you are a fan of Stich's serve, take a look at the setup and motion at 4.50. He is executing precisely what I am trying to describe. Both of these player's service setup position with their weight and their racquets well forward in their stances which encourages them to swing their racquet and their arm in one unit and also to swing their bodies into position to make the most bio-mechanically efficient motion going forward.

Your boy has done a very nice job of delivering the racquet head to the ball from a somewhat awkward setup position...which is why I am alluding to the fact that he has another 30% of potential energy to be realized within his grasp if you set him up to do it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his arm action and the pause at the top will only come if it makes sense within the context of the timing of his motion to do so.

To get him to setup correctly...try having him bend at the waist a bit and shift the weight and the racquet forward and see what happens. The position of his feet is excellent.

Thanks again for putting your work on the forum for us to view and comment on.

PART 4

Patience and The Horse

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

I agree that it would be nice to have the big serve working when he moves up an age group but he may not think so. With my prize student I have found myself having my patience tested on a number of issues but have found that usually my patience has paid off. Lately I have been patting myself on the back...but we shall see. I have not been in such a hurry for him to post results in the juniors...it's the mens events that are my goal. He can save his arm until it matters..but he should be ready to go when the bell tolls. That is when he is going to really need the big serve and hopefully it is coming around at this point. Recently I have been "emphasizing" the importance of taking the initiative with the serve and getting more positive feedback. Before it wasn't happening.

The "rock" is not so much back as it is down and up. The old down together, up together. The racquet drops...but so does the arm in harmony with the rest of the upper body...and the shoulder turn is executed with a turn as you lift, without noticeable movement backwards. Once again, I call upon golf speak...the turn is often described as taking place in a barrel with limited room for lateral movement.

Set up, drop, turn and lift. It's fairly simple, yet remains one of the great mysteries. Good luck and thanks again for sharing your thoughts and sharing your student. It certainly helps me to think out loud.

I think his arm and wrist motion is really good...I love the position of his feet and his footwork in general. It's only one piece of the puzzle. He may subconsciously be saving his arm for future use. I think he is destined to have a very good serve...it may only be a question of when. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink until he's ready. On the other hand...you can try to stimulate the thirst...just a bit.

[don_budge]

Let's Develop a Serve...Part 5 thru Part 8

PART 5

Fine tune, Debug and We shall see

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

http://youtu.be/LeG0grNzmUk

Finally...with regards to your last video of the impromptu 45 minute session. You are absolutely on the right track...it's all about the setup and the backswing.

1 Fine tune setup...lean a bit more forward from the waist. Bobbing racquet head with arms and shoulders. And a one...and a two...and a three, and a here we go. Or, one for the money...two for the show...three to get ready....and go cat go.

2 Debug backswing...small almost imperceptible pause on the way back. By swinging the arm and racquet in one position, and as one unit all of the way to the top of the backswing this small pause will disappear.

3 We shall see where we stand after points 1 & 2. Arm action and footwork were very good at the beginning...it should be even better now. The more comfortable he gets, the more his shoulders will turn quite naturally.

I am very, very impressed with your last video and eagerly await your next submission...from the tone of your words.


PART 6

One last thing...the figure 8

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeG0grNzmUk&feature=youtu.be

By creating the new path with a modified setup and drop of the racquet head initiation of the swing..."G" has a nice big circle in front of him that is his backswing. Coupled with the nice big circular motion that he already had behind him, what have you got?

Answer: Don's figure 8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wkhxlMD-0o

PART 7

Sam Snead, Olof's flimsy shoes and The Roller Coaster of Love..."Deliverance"

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

The thing is with Stich when I watch his serve over and over again, there is no hard pressing down with the front foot... nor is there any hard pressing down on the back foot...it's all so gentle, relaxed and easy...it's almost weightless to look at...yet it's weight transfer to perfection.

Re the pause in the backswing, I had completely missed that one.

2 Debug backswing

Is the key to achieve the above relaxation, gravity? I think because he is trying to control his arms thru an unfamiliar swing path he is a little tense in the arms...might take this on this weekend and see what I can come up with.

With regard to the "weightless footwork" of Micheal Stich...think of Sam Snead practicing his golf swing barefooted...or (bottle remembers this one) Olof practicing his serve against the backboard in his "flimsy canvas loafers". One very interesting note regarding Stich's footwork is how his feet are placed in the overhead view video that Don sent us via e-mail (there's some immediate feedback to your wish for overhead viewing, way to go Don!). The back foot is parallel to the baseline and the front foot is more or less 45 degrees...which is what I teach verbatim. All in all, Micheal Stich's motion is textbook, he's certainly in total compliance with my model for the service motion...you couldn't of picked a better model for sheer silky, slinky service technique. Richard Gonzales would of loved it.

I think you have answered your own question here about the debugging of the backswing...

The quote below is from my post titled "Roller Coaster of Love...Part 1" (From the "Racquet snaps the wrist on serve..." thread, tennis_chiro and I sound a bit like the dueling banjo's in the movie "Deliverance" in that thread. It's currently on page six in the forum.)

"Here we go...hold on to your hat! One thing that we must clarify before we go into any kind of explanation about the motion is the pressure of your grip. Sam Snead referred to the grip on his golf club as holding it with only so much pressure as you would hold a live bird. We only hold on with our hand tight enough to not let go of the racquet. We maintain only enough pressure in the entire arm, forearm and wrist to swing the arm and racquet back into position in one piece without disturbing the exact position that it is in at the setup position. We must eliminate all sources of tension and resistance when we are attempting to use pure gravity to dictate our motion. From this relaxed and confident position at setup we need only to release the racquet with our left hand that is supporting it, and allow the weight of the racquet head to merely fall upon the line of the track all the way back to the fence until it reaches a position at the top of the hill."

Now the key to all of this is to keep it as simple as possible. I like my little story about the serve metaphorically as a roller coaster supported by the visual image of tennis_chiro's figure eight's clip.


PART 8

"To be" vs. "to imitate"...development.

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

Elaborate (a musical theme) by modification of the melody, harmony, or rhythm.

It's not easy what he is trying to do...emulate Stich that is. We'll get there.

Monkey's imitate...human beings enlighten and therefore develop through discovery, hopefully.

"G" now has the beginning of a sound fundamental basis for the service motion. Before imitating a professional tennis player who had been perfecting his service for fifteen years, perhaps it would be prudent to proceed one step at a time. Let "G" develop into "G" as opposed to imitating Stich. He can borrow some things from Stich perhaps, as well as Federer, McEnroe, Brosseau...but it will be better for "G" in the long run to learn to be himself. The key word is develop.

Now...with a nice motion in place, and as tennis_chiro suggests with some practice it will take some time to become second nature to the boy...let's focus on spinning the ball a bit. Afterall, that is the purpose of developing this serve, isn't it?

Have "G" imagine that the tennis ball is as big as a beach ball and have him try to throw his racquet all the way around the beach ball to create as big an arch in his motion as he can. Toss the ball at one o'clock and a bit further forward into the court. This should loosen up his arm a bit and get him to toss the ball a bit more into the court...in order that he "launches" himself at the ball. Work at this with a variety of speeds. Work on this from a meter behind the baseline. Nice and easy at first...relax the arm for the full potential effect. Learn to keep the arm relaxed as you turn up the heat. Think big circles. "And Then There Were Three" (circles)...Genesis.

At the same time incorporate some serve and volley drilling so that his motion is directed into the court...or rather to the target. After he has the concept of the motion it is time to attempt to incorporate the motion into play time. Having the motion stand the test of match play is the final phase of development. Time to let up on the service details some, I think. It's more like a feeling than a definition. It's more of an imaging process, ala Yandall, than a matter of mechanics at a certain point. There is the danger of overload or as you put it...preoccupation, which is somewhat natural. It's like a new toy, isn't it? Don't wear it out. Let's be somewhat cautious of his arm as well. Let's keep things in perspective. Let's create curiosity on the student's part.

Looking good...and steady as she goes. There is no hurry now. Just be patient and see what develops. He's only fourteen...there is only so much room in his noodle. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was the British Empire.

vrc10s...I like the idea of building from the feet up, it's good to have a sound foundation.

[don_budge]

Let's Develop a Serve...Part 9

PART 9

Debugged...Mission Accomplished

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

1...It's hard to get rid of the drag in the early part of the backswing. Looks like a lot of figure 8's are going to be needed.

2...He gets the idea of gravity and "reaching the top of the hill". He's watched Stich over and over and can see the difference between Stich's flowing backswing and his own. He understands the key is learning how to initiate the backswing by allowing gravity to play it's part.

3...And, yes, I let G read some of the posts on this thread.

4...I am not going to move on from trying to de-bug the backswing.

5...Shame the clips can't give you all an idea of pace.

6...No more posts until Wednesday, earliest. My wife is having four kidney stones removed in a London hospital and needs my moral support.

Ok...so here we are. The setup is fine tuned but needs just a little tweaking and the backswing is bebugged for all intents and purposes. Now we shall see.

1...The drag is gone. What you have in its’ place is a very elegant, very classic and very sophisticated backswing. See what tennis_chiro said about his rhythm...he's not kidding, he's not whistling Dixie. Some figure 8’s possibly but to me figure 8’s are only a means of getting there. He is there.

2...Yes, he gets it, I see the racquet head drop almost lazily...and you get it too, apparently. It’s a double dip, Stotty. I would not give any more thought to using Stich as an image to copy. It may only limit the young man...his motion is that good. Let’s develop “G”...to be “G”.

3...I want to write him a letter on the forum...is it ok with you?

4...Move on Brother, you have accomplished more than you have any right to expect. Move to the “weak link” in his game while he continues to develop his serve. I suggest putting the service priority on simmer for a bit.

5...Ahhh, Stotty. You underestimate the powers of observation that good old don_budge possesses. That ball is moving...and deceptively fast. The power is effortless and it's sneaky, therefore there is a lot of potential to be tapped in the future as the kid grows and matures.

6...Give my best to the wife and wishes for a speedy recovery.

PART 8 "To be" vs. "to imitate"...development (beach ball, launch and serve and volley drill) is still in play...I am very curious as to what this missive will produce. One more peek at video after this idea is introduced to the kid. The toss needs to be moved to the right in order to spin the ball...soon to be addressed in PART 10...The Conclusion.

http://youtu.be/WEflOtFt57Q

I see the image of the racquet head arching to circumnavigate the beach ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXDeExm8UxM

I see the "snakiness" of Nastase in the first serve. Uh oh...!!!

http://youtu.be/MNPHHLfY2aE

Forget Stich...my money is on "G". This clip tells me to move the toss a bit to the right.

http://youtu.be/gVODwH8M4z8

My next tip about the setup is from this clip.

http://youtu.be/YKdPoXCjEOg[/QUOTE]
Beach ball, bingo...boom! Bing, bang...bye!

Unbelievable!!! It's that good. I would like to pay you a compliment as well...nice job on the camera, the feedback and your general overall professional approach. You do your student a great service. It's definitely a pleasure working with you...as usual.

[don_budge]

The Serve Snaps the Wrist...

post #32...pronation and use of the wrist when serving:


I wrote this in March in response to "erbr" and deleted it after posting it for some time...not nearly as sophisticated as Rod Cross, but I understand the math. Normally I operate on the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle with my students and myself as well.

The Wrist is a Hinge

Am I the only person who considers pronation as a natural biomechanical occurrence?-erbr

Knowledgable tennis players and golfers all over the world agree with you. When teaching the serve I sometimes make a bit of an oblique reference to the serve being similar to an upside down golf swing. Instead of teeing it up on the ground, we attempt to tee it up in the air. To begin with some of the similarities are the take away, the backswing, the transition between backswing to forward motion and the "release" of the wrist(s) which deliver the racquet or club to the ball...it even helps to "waggle" the racquet a bit in the preserve routine. The action of the wrist(s) is perhaps the most fundamentally important aspect of swinging a tennis racquet or a golf club (Ben Hogan certainly agrees with you)...or to swing anything else for that matter. This goes for all shots...long or short, fast or slow...not just the serve. It is also perhaps the most difficult aspect of swinging to convince a tennis or golf student of...it is a matter of swinging, not hitting. Getting too "wristy" even with short putts is the kiss of death, but that being said...you still must swing the putter.

I describe the function of the wrist...or "handled" as it is called in Swedish...as that of the hinge on a door. One never has to consciously think about applying the wrist in the swing of the racquet or the club, but you must let it do what it most naturally wants to do...and that is to swing smoothly with all of the centrifugal energy that the mind/head (the idea behind the shot intended to play), the feet and legs, the hips and body, the shoulders and finally the arm have created. The action of the wrist is a product of all of this and it's job is to transfer all of that action into the face of the racquet. It's really such a simple thing...ha ha. But it's best not to talk too much about it...or to think too much about it either, for that matter. Better to concentrate on footwork and getting into position and just letting "the thing" happen.

Once the wrist(s) take over...delivering the payload feels a bit like "slamming the door".

Everyone always talks about the thumb being such an important digit for homo sapiens. But the wrist for tennis players...and for golfers, is the joint that makes it all possible. Superb question erbr...and I agree with you.

[don_budge]

Serve Snaps the Wrist..

Roller Coaster of Love...remember that tune?
post #33 Roller Coaster of Love...Part 1

Then I wrote this in April for Phil's "frustrating" thread...I deleted this one as well. Stupid me, I didn't realize that this was somehow related to Rod Cross's physics lesson on...what is it he is talking about anyways? I remember talking to my college roommate and doubles partner and backcourt mate on the basketball court, many years ago, 1076 I believe it was...he was a Chemical Engineering major, I said to him..."you know Jim, a tennis match is really one big physics problem and equation, I wonder if you could take an entire tennis match and express it as an equation in terms of force, vectors, with specific quantification." He looked up at me from his studies and said, "That's an interesting thought." I never did follow up on my thought. He went on studying and I went out to practice.

Phil...I have been studying your video over the last couple of weeks and gleaned everything I can from it. The one view has its limitations and the still sequence of your serve adds some insight as well. The only sure way to do this thing is in person...care to fly over to Sweden for a couple of lessons. Just kidding.


The service motion is a bit complex and it involves quite a bit of motion from all of the different parts of the body...so we try to simplify things by creating a model we can relate it to in simple terms. The model that I use is the “berg och dallbana” which translates literally into English from Swedish as the “mountain and valley course”...but it means “roller coaster”. A roller coaster is an amusement park ride that is perfectly designed using the law of gravity. The design is so perfect that the ride feels that it is wildly out of control and traveling at incredible speed...but is so amazingly in control that the owners of such rides are betting everything they have that the ride will not spin out of control and kill a bunch of innocent people on a Saturday afternoon. This is the safe and secure principle we shall attempt to modify your backswing to in order to get you going forward into the “hit” with perfect and effortless energy. We are going to be using gravity as our main source of energy...to create a perfect, yet simple motion...a roller coaster of a serve.


Here’s the thing, Phil...about the set up and backswing. This is a real challenge without having you in front of me to study for a while. To set you up to begin your motion I would like you to create a line directly at your target with the toes of your two feet which are approximately shoulder width apart. Imagine this line going forwards towards your target and all the way back of you to the fence. This line will serve as our “track” for the backswing. I would like to see you bent slightly at the waist so that your arm can “swing” from your shoulder without your body getting in the way. Finally, I would like you to line your racquet up to your target as well, on the same line as the line that your feet created. Point your racquet at the target and hold it about waist high supported by your left hand. Weight distributed from between 60/40 to 70/30 from the front foot to the back. Great...now we have you lined up, and taking aim.

Here we go...hold on to your hat! One thing that we must clarify before we go into any kind of explanation about the motion is the pressure of your grip. Sam Snead referred to the grip on his golf club as holding it with only so much pressure as you would hold a live bird. We only hold on with our hand tight enough to not let go of the racquet. We maintain only enough pressure in the entire arm, forearm and wrist to swing the arm and racquet back into position in one piece without disturbing the exact position that it is in at the setup position. We must eliminate all sources of tension and resistance when we are attempting to use pure gravity to dictate our motion. From this relaxed and confident position at setup we need only to release the racquet with our left hand that is supporting it, and allow the weight of the racquet head to merely fall upon the line of the track all the way back to the fence until it reaches a position at the top of the hill. From the starting position, the roller coaster car begins its decent down the first hill until it reaches the bottom where it will begin its assent slowly up the second hill all the way to the top. Remember the track is along the line that we created with our feet towards our target and it extends all the way back. Keep the racquet on this track. By allowing gravity to dictate the direction and speed of our backswing we will create the position back in our swing where the laws of gravity make the most sense and the least number of things can go wrong. In fact nothing can go wrong...just like the roller coaster. By dropping the racquet head and allowing the weight of it to travel smoothly in front of you and only using the energy of your weight transferring to the back foot by slowly turning your shoulders and allowing your arm to freely swing back into position, we create a position where the racquet will naturally drop behind us at free fall speed into what you are referring to the “pro drop” position.

Now this is where things get a bit interesting...and exciting. Thinking about this point of the motion where the racquet makes a loop starting at free fall speed, behind our backs and how it relates to a roller coaster, we can imagine where the cars of the ride go into a loop and the riders are actually upside down on the track with only gravity to keep them glued to the track. This is where the riders of the roller coaster are screaming at the top of their lungs and their faces are contorted with the g-force that is plastering the tissue of their faces to their skulls. It’s in the loop, baby! This is where the drive of the legs, the turning back of the shoulders and the thrusting or throwing motion of the racquet combine to exponentially create an incredible amount of speed with very little effort. You can imagine that the line a piece of pencil would draw if it was attached to the tip of the racquet...this is your track for the roller coaster of your serve.

The backswing is where I observe the source of your issues. It looks to me that if we can get you into position you can make the move forward if you can maintain a loose grip on the racquet and the relaxation in your arm to create a whip like sensation. (insert post #32 at this point for the action of the wrist)


Just one more thing...it looks to me in frame #3 you have tossed the ball right out of the picture and in frame #4 it is returning to earth. I think your toss is a bit high...which would lead us to the next lesson, how and where to toss the ball.


A description of the Pancho Gonzales serve…

The Gonzales service is a natural action that epitomizes grace, power, control and placement. The top players sigh when they see the smooth, easy action. There is no trace of a hitch and no unnecessary movements. I have never seen a serve so beautifully executed. The toss is no higher than it has to be and it is timed so that he is fully stretched when he hits it. The backswing is continuous and the motion of the backswing blends into the hit and continues into the follow-through without a pause..

Like you...I am a huge admirer of the Gonzales serve...and he obviously knew his "metaphysics".

[don_budge]

Serve Snaps the Wrist..

post #34...All we need to do is change the frustrating...to fascinating...Part 2



And this was the follow up...I think I am still talking about physics here.

All we need to do is change the frustrating...to fascinating

I believe that the keys to your service issues can be found in frame #1, frame #2 and frame #3. This setup position in frame #1 will certainly get you off to a poor start in your swing and if you start the swing poorly what are the chances of you finishing it well? In frame #2 you can see how quickly you have jerked your racquet back into position and since you were so quick you have prematurely quit swinging backwards...you have not completed your backswing. The problem is now in full view in frame #3 as here you are waiting in this position instead of arriving at the point where the roller coaster car (your racquet's head) has reached the top of the mountain and is ready to fall behind your back at free fall speed...to initiate the loop in your swing behind you. It’s impossible to arrive at the “pro drop” properly unless you allow your racquet to fall, without hurrying things. It looks like you have tied yourself up and are preparing a rather wild and hurried swing, which is more like a hit than a swing at this point, at the ball...btw, where is the ball?

In frames #4 and beyond...you demonstrate that you have practiced a lot or have been playing a long time because you are making quite a nice swing at the ball and appear to be in pretty good control and in balance. The key word here is “appear” because the problem will magnify itself when you are nervous, when it is windy, when the sun is in your eyes or any other little thing that distracts you. You probably do not have a great deal of versatility in your serve because all of your concentration is focused on getting the service in play. Even some pretty Swiss lady who happens to be watching you play may get you just a little too excited to hold your rhythm. If I know that some pretty woman is watching me serve, I slow my backswing even more...give her the full show, you see. My serve tends to get even better under pressure...because of the slower backswing.

But if you turn over the controls of your service to gravity in terms of the speed and the track of your backswing...you can hold the rhythm under any conditions...even when the nerves are in play, like for instance, when you are serving out the set. Ever notice how difficult that tends to become? Trying to get the horse in the barn...you have got to take your time and have an enormous amount of patience and control. You cannot trust your emotions, your wrist or anything for that matter, the only thing that you can truly trust is the knowledge and the confidence that nothing can go wrong...because you have a perfect swing and beautiful rhythm, because your mechanics are based solely on the law of gravity. If you miss the first serve you can swing even harder with more spin at the second because you know...what are the chances of missing two in a row? Practically zero. Some days second serves can turn into a real adventure can't they? And why? It's because of the doubts...that faulty rhythm and mechanics can produce.

I watched The Masters golf tournament this weekend...I think I enjoy watching golf more on TV than tennis, I don’t know why I tend to find tennis boring to watch...maybe it is the lack of style nowadays. Perhaps it's the beautiful rhythm of the swings that holds my attention...they mesmerize me. But one thing about the golfers...every single one of them is virtually identical in their backswings. Why is that? That is because the ball is teed up or lying still and they have the time to make the perfect backswing. You can see that none of them are in any particular hurry to finish their backswing because they are gathering all of the resources of power and control that they possess to use the force of gravity together with the motion of their arms and body to control the club head. They get themselves into perfect position at the top of their swing and without hurrying things they allow gravity to initiate their downwards motion to deliver such a sweet and crisp contact at the bottom of their swing on the ball.

Since we are serving...it is the only time in tennis that we have total control of the ball, we can tee it up with our toss, maybe we should learn a bit from the golfers and take our time in the backswing so that we can get ourselves (mind, body and soul) under control to make the most powerful, efficient, controlled yet effortless swing that we can. Sort of like Richard Gonzales...but within our limitations, Phil. Just like the golfer we are trying to gather everything in our power to make the ultimate contact with the racquet head on and through the ball...but instead of the swing climaxing at the bottom of the swing as a golfer does, the serve is climaxing at the top of our swing. Isn't that rather interesting?

I can see that you have plenty of ability and that you are in really good condition...in three or four hours I believe I could get all of your resources together, in harmony with the universe, to make a gravity based swing at the ball. Depending upon your flexibility...to change.

And to make a long story short...incorporate Don's figure 8´s. I remember doing those exercises religiously before practicing my serve back in the old days.

[don_budge]

Serve Snaps the Wrist..

post #34....One more thing..."it"


So there is always one more thing. After the student has mastered his "figure eights" and developed a gravity based and frictionless swing and the wrist is behaving itself...the whole thing is dependent on one more thing. Putting the ball in the path of the traveling racquet head. This can be very disruptive to the whole process.

There is basically one point in time and space where it all collides simultaneously, and perfectly...where the grip, the motion and all of the generated energy meet the ball. Any deviation from this one point in time and space will produce less than "perfect" shots as energy and potential energy will be wasted or erratic.

I call this point "it". Musicians get it...the whole craft depends upon it. Golfers get it. Tennis players get it. Great oraters get it. Anybody who successfully and repeatedly is accomplished in anything in any walk of life gets it. It's too bad more people don't get it...have you ever known anybody who just doesn't get it. But...it is not so easy as that when you are trying to deliver the ball to that one point in time and space in order to put the ball right where the ball should be, and when the ball should be there. When and where...time and space.

As tennis players, this in the end, is the object of our craft also...we seek to find that one point in time and space where everything is perfect. This relates to our serves, our groundstrokes, to those of us hitting the ball in the air still it relates to our volleys. It relates to every single type of shot under the sun. The quest as it were, is to get the grip right, get the feet, body and racquet into position, and then move all the responsible parts to get the racquet head to meet the ball the way we intend it to when we attempt any particular shot. The ultimate challenge for a human being is to have that kind of control over ones self to master such an endeavor. This is why golf and tennis are God's gift to humanity in terms of at recreation...possibly even more significant than that. There are physics, in a "perfect" world and there are the metaphysics in the real world as we know it. Rod Cross is great but he has left a huge variable out of the equation while focusing on some others. But don't get me wrong, he is fine in a certain sphere of influence, I think.

Perhaps a new thread...and a couple of more videos from Coach Don on the toss...in order to assist the student to find "it". Excellent job, Coach...btw.

[alexandrafranco]

Lot's to assimilate. very exciting
Much appreciated! Thank you.

[don_budge]

Food for thought...

Lot's to assimilate. very exciting
Much appreciated! Thank you.

Well it is a lot of information within those two threads but it really isn't so complicated as all of that. Just read through this material so that you are acquainted with our terminology and method of operation and we shall get started on your serve...personalized. As I mentioned if you send some video it will be very helpful but we can do this freestyle if you like as well.

From your initial post you are well aware of the importance of your setup position because that is going to have a great influence on your backswing and so forth.

[tennis_chiro]

Alexandra, this took months!

Helluva effort by don_budge. Can't believe we went through all that.

Alexandra, just recognize that "G" went through this progression over a period of months, not days or weeks, hitting thousands of balls, and under the watchful eyes of Stotty all the while. So, take your time and find another pair of eyes to help you with your journey.

Good luck!

don

[GeoffWilliams]

Her frame speed and path are not right. If she learns to keep her frame on the side of her body, and then go under the elbow at leg drive, when she goes up, the frame has to be driven under and "past" the elbow for more frame speed, and more resultant mass on the contact point. Tough to describe.

[alexandrafranco]

Geoff, I'm perplexed, is this quote about my serve?I haven't posted my serve.

Her frame speed and path are not right. If she learns to keep her frame on the side of her body, and then go under the elbow at leg drive, when she goes up, the frame has to be driven under and "past" the elbow for more frame speed, and more resultant mass on the contact point. Tough to describe.

[GeoffWilliams]

You have a youtube channel. I've seen you hit there. Look at all the top servers. They coil sideways, some with back to net. Frame snaps under their elbows and then forearm snaps up/forward with shoulder internally rotating at very fast speed. Your speed is too slow due to lack of tech. and intention.

It's like a sneeze instead of cough. A sneeze is 90 mph. A cough is 40 mph.

The serve is the hardest shot to weaponize. It takes a huge coil, released very fast, like sneezing or snapping the whip. It's the forearm that pronates (snaps), or fips over 180 degrees, not the wrist. The wrist can aid with backwards speed, but the forward speed comes from the kinetic addition of: leg drive up, shoulder turn sideways, wrist driving the frame under the elbow fast, external shoulder coil load, leading hip up higher than the rear hip (this ensures the shoulders have more coil/up/down), and all of that exploding in a sneeze like uncoil/rhythm leading to the final forearm snap which is forwards, not just down.

And how many people can do that in your own experience? Not too many. How many have big forehands? Or back hands? Millions of players all over the world are crushing the ball off ground, and only a few are serving like that.

It's like the same reason why so many pro women don't have the atp type III fh. It's hard to learn, so they go with a more consistent faster approach. Same reason why so many pro women don't hit over heads. Hard to learn, easy to miss, so they just hit swinging fh volleys, not because it's a better shot, but because it's easier to learn just one thing: a fh. How soon before they just start using that swinging fh to serve with?

Any shot is easy if you learn the right form, and have the right energy, speed, intention, practice, and that's what this site is all about, giving people the ammo they need to do just that.

Match play diffficulty comes into play in mastering the slow game, the fast game, the lull game, the jam game, the finish game, the serve, the return game, etc., all in one point, in every point played. Being able to grind out slow points and then switch to a low over the net blazing winner. Almost no one can do that. personality wise, you are most likely a consistent push type, or an inconsistent blaster type, if you play tennis. What I'd like to see subcribers do, is become consistent push/grind/blasters with big serves and returns with attitudes: "A missed return is like a double fault."

[don_budge]

One last thing...I forgot the conclusion to "Let's Develop a Serve"

PART 10

The Conclusion ironically is The Beginning- The Set Up, The Toss and Attitude

develop...grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate.

Stotty...Beautiful work. Michelangelo would be proud. A living statue...in motion. Watch it grow...and develop.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/champions/Ed_Atkinson/Ed_Atkinson_Seving_Greatnes/Ed_Atkinson_Seving_Greatnes.html

Just one final thing now. Read this article "Elements of Serving Greatness" by Ed Atkinson and see the sections "Starting Position" and "The Toss". Read about Jack Kramer practicing his "placement" or in other words, his toss. Atkinson talks of Kramer reading the print on the ball. Worthy advice. If you have developed a perfect motion it will be all for naught, unless you put the ball in the right position to swing at it. Ed, wherever you are...I love you.

I agree entirely with Atkinson's analogy of Kramer's toss as being worthy of a model. What's more is that all four of these great servers in his article would agree with him...if they were alive. Don Budge personally taught me the same thing. The toss is to the right of the head and into the court. "G"'s swing is now calibrated to be most effective and trustworthy hitting the ball in this position...and there is only one point in time and space where everything is perfect.

Now that we agree as to where to toss the ball, the question is what is the most effective manner in which to deliver the ball there, in a repeatable manner. The answer to this important question lies in the set up. This is what I recommend.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_serve/rf_1st_serve/rf_1st_serve.html?RF1stSAdFront5.mov

In this video clip Roger Federer is in perfect position to deliver his toss to the exact and precise point where it needs to be every time. He is bent over at the waist so that his sternum is directly over his front foot. He has poised his racquet forward in his stance so that the hand that holds the ball is directly below the point where he would like to hit it. This is one of the most important aspects of a correct setup...and the one that I advocate. With one minor modification...Roger's idiosyncrasy in his set up is in the manner he begins his motion with his racquet already descended so the tip is somewhat down. My idea is to have the tip pointing at the target as if you are aiming a weapon...the Swedish major that I coach agrees. So does Eugen Herrigel in "Zen In the Art of Archery".

Speaking of aiming. Speaking of archery. Speaking of Zen. Don't forget good old Stan Smith's video on tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxcMr1Ya5w0

The lines...in the case of the serve. Think of it as lining up..or aiming. Putting all of your ducks in a row. All of your energy...potential and otherwise. One line is formed by the end of the toes in a line to your target. Start your racquet on this same line...now you have two lines. The backswing more or less swings along this line or somewhat parallel to it. When you are at the top of your swing, your shoulders are in line with your feet. Toss the ball on the same line of your feet and on the line of your backswing, which is give or take directly over the right shoulder as you are delivering the racquet head to the ball. Harvey Penick would say that you are taking "dead aim" here.

In this set up position another very important aspect of the service motion is also optimized and that is the free swinging of the arm in the backswing. The way that the body positions itself in this set up, the arm is free to swing from the shoulder without the body impeding its freedom. Just by rotating or turning the shoulders all of your objectives that we have been discussing here are maximized...and your student need to no longer look for someone to mimic or copy. He becomes the model for your program in two years...maybe less. But as he stands now...he is a trifle too upright in his setup position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=wXkAK_iFBuQ

Federer may or may not be one of the greatest servers of all time. He is one of the best of the modern era. Here he is practicing...and he is practicing being loose and having an "I don't give a damn because I know I am that good" attitude. This is evidenced by his stepping on the baseline when he is practicing. If you are a great server you have this sort of fatalistic approach to the serve...you know it's going in because you know your motion is perfect. If you miss the first, you swing at the second harder and with more spin because you know that it is statistically impossible to miss two in a row.

The other aspect of serving that goes along with this fatalistic attitude is in the manner the server approaches the baseline to assume his set up position. I have an idea that there is a door approximately two meters behind the baseline that the server enters every time he approaches the baseline to serve and when he enters this door he is in service mode. Sometimes the server may or may not pause and enter the doorway just reminding himself that he has a great serve that cannot miss. Sometimes the server might want to pause at this "doorway" on important points before he proceeds to the line and bounce the ball a couple of times in order to take the time to calculate or contemplate everything that is about to happen. The score, the target, his opponent, his strategy, the possibilities...etc. Visualize. Perhaps key in on the one swing thought that makes you a great server. Location of the toss, the sensation of the racquet falling behind you, total relaxation and confidence, for instance. Take your pick. It helps to be thoughtful before you hurl yourself into battle.

But Federer certainly does a lot of wonderful things in his book of service. Tactically he is very sound as he really moves it around the box with variation of spin and speed...although sometimes his first service seems to go a bit wayward in critical situations. Maybe that is related to the little idiosyncrasy in his set up...his rhythm may deviate just the tiniest bit under pressure. I am just speculating here. Usually he is great under pressure and that is because he has a great motion. And he believes in it.

This has been an amazing thread...and thanks a million for the opportunity to work with you once again. It was like a wonderful conversation.