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Shanghai Rolex Masters 2012...Shanghai, China

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  • #31
    Pacino and Nadal

    I like "the little bird in his head" analogy...very fitting...and true. I'm not so forgiving as you, however. Plenty grow up on the wrong side of the tracks and turn out outstanding people...it can never be an excuse for anyone. Having said that, being as daft as a brush is a fairly good excuse.

    Yes, it was a good film Scarface. Just a shame Pacino seemed to adopt that "shouting and bawling" role for all his films thereafter (or at last all the films of his I having seen). I really liked the more quiet, highly intelligent, piercing, calculating role he played in the Godfather. Shame he never came to play such a sophisticated part in any of his subsequent films. He was really good at it. He learnt a lot from Brando making that film.

    Can't get into Shanghai yet....it's really all about the slams for me. I miss Nadal to liven things up.
    Last edited by stotty; 10-12-2012, 01:35 PM.
    Stotty

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    • #32
      Berdych update...

      Originally posted by klacr View Post
      He'll make it past Tsonga (hopefully) but then he has to face probably an in-form Djokovic.

      Kyle LaCroix USPTA
      Boca Raton
      Ladies and Gentlemen...meet the newest member of "The Big Four". This just in...Berdych pounds Tsonga into submission to advance. You make it all sound so simple! Monsieur LaCroix!

      Can he send Djokovic home as well? Murray in three over Stepanek. Next up...The Man? Cilic? The Man.
      Last edited by don_budge; 10-12-2012, 03:29 AM.
      don_budge
      Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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      • #33
        Originally posted by don_budge View Post
        Ladies and Gentlemen...meet the newest member of "The Big Four". This just in...Berdych pounds Tsonga into submission to advance. You make it all sound so simple! Monsieur LaCroix!

        Can he send Djokovic home as well? Murray in three over Stepanek. Next up...The Man? Cilic? The Man.
        I have faith and confidence in TBerd. What can I say? Playing Djokovic will be a another levels and a different test for Berdych. But one that he is up for. He has the game, if he is firing on all cylinders, Berdych can pull it off.

        Kyle LaCroix USPTA
        Boca Raton

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        • #34
          Originally posted by don_budge View Post
          .

          ...Oh alright...maybe his soul is a little tortured by his own behavior...

          Most geniuses have tortured souls. Hard to function in a social capacity when your head is in a frenzy and possesses so much wealth.


          Oh, and just for the record, don_budge picked some great Police songs to listen to but "Spirits in the Material World" may possibly be my favorite song from that group. Great track from the album "Ghost in the Machine". Song features bass, guitar, synthesizer, drums and saxophone. Has a Jamaican Ska beat which changes to a swaggering rock beat in the chorus. Love it. But I digress...

          Kyle LaCroix USPTA
          Boca Raton

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          • #35
            The Big 4*...

            Originally posted by don_budge View Post
            But Berdych can add something to the mix here in a big way...in the world of competitive modern tennis. With Nadal out, he inherits a spot in the "Big Four" with Djokovic, Federer and Murray...in a way that David Ferrer does not. As it looks now in the Shanghai tournament the three "originals" of the "Big Four" are virtual shoe-ins, barring some unforeseen disaster or train wreck for the semifinals.

            Well anyways here we are again...The Big Four. Except we have a different take on things and it sort of disrupts the balance of the whole paradigm. Tomas Berdych instead of Rafael Nada. Those are some big shoes to fill.

            I am not certain that Berdych has the guns to go after Djokovic in a big way. I think that he needs some subtlety and some ammunition that can change the pace of the game and give him the sensation that he has some degree of control of the situation out there on the court. Getting into a slugfest with Novak Djokovic seems a tough road to hoe but how does one go about disrupting his rhythm before knocking him out.

            One thing that I have noticed is that when somebody seems to have some degree of success against the Serbian freight train when he is feeling his oats is you must be able to somehow throw him off balance with a combination of slippery balls to his backhand in order to open up the forehand side where he is normally trying to lure you to go, so that he can really pound you into submission. The backhand of Djokovic is his winning side...although he may be slightly less devastating than on the forehand side on a shot by shot basis, his weakness is not necessarily his weakness. He wins with it. He comes up with the big unexpected winners down the line. So he must be neutralized before he can be beaten.

            Now his opponent must have a tactical solution to the Djokovic game and not just go out and try to match him shot for shot. The opponent must have a tactical game plan that will take the element of control out of the hands of the Serb. You may have to attack the forehand initially in order to send some type of off-speed balls at the backhand. Slice backhands with little pace or a variety of pace sometimes seem to perplex Djokovic and neutralize him a bit. Whatever it is, it has to be well thought out and you must have the required variety of shots to carry it out and I am not certain if Berdych has this complement in his repertoire.

            Federer has a similar conundrum going on in the top half, where it is my contention he should be meeting the #4 seed. But regardless, he has to work the Murray backhand in order to expose the forehand. At Wimbledon he seemed to have quite a bit of success mixing the slice backhand with his topspin and drive. He also put some pressure on Murray by finishing points at the net. Federer finished with overheads many times more than the normal course of his matches and that had as much of a demoralizing effect on Murray as anything else that happened that day.

            One of the biggest challenges that is facing Roger Federer today is that this match is two out of three. On the other hand, there is that debacle of the Gold Medal match that needs to be straightened out and hopefully he will be full machine trying to avenge that loss. As always the only revenge in life is success and this is a golden opportunity to show Andy Murray who is boss once again. This promises to be an engaging match if both participants show up to play...unlike the Gold Medal match. Federer is also trying to defend his position at the top of the professional game...but Murray has the advantage in the respect that he is motivated to unseat The King. Better to be the aggressor than the defender, especially when all of the money and cards are on the table. But if there is anyone that knows how to blend the elements of attack and defense it is Roger Federer but then there is a question of one very important thing...has he lost half of a step at the ripe old age of 31?

            Once again we had to wait for the semifinals for things to get somewhat compelling. Now it is "The Big Four*".
            Last edited by don_budge; 10-13-2012, 02:58 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
            don_budge
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            • #36
              Ok, so my guy didn't win today. Berdych did not play that poorly but Djokovic is just too solid. The returning, defending, dictating was impressive from Novak, as it always is. Watching Federer struggle against Murray right now. Roger does not seem all that into it mentally or physically. Let's hope it turns out to be a great match.

              Kyle LaCroix USPTA
              Boca Raton

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              • #37
                Originally posted by klacr View Post
                Ok, so my guy didn't win today. Berdych did not play that poorly but Djokovic is just too solid. The returning, defending, dictating was impressive from Novak, as it always is. Watching Federer struggle against Murray right now. Roger does not seem all that into it mentally or physically. Let's hope it turns out to be a great match.

                Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                Boca Raton
                My guy ain't winning either. Murray serving for the match after they finish closing the roof. Federer was never in the match. Murray manhandled him with his backhand. Repeat of the U.S. Open final. Take your pick.
                don_budge
                Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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                • #38
                  I have only seen part of the second set of Fed/Murray but Murray is looking good...unlucky not to be able to finish the match there and then. Murray is all over Federer....sorry, don_budge, just hope my guy can finish the job.
                  Stotty

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                    My guy ain't winning either. Murray serving for the match after they finish closing the roof. Federer was never in the match. Murray manhandled him with his backhand. Repeat of the U.S. Open final. Take your pick.
                    Yeah, Had higher hopes for that match. Oh well. Not an enormous fan of either Murray or Djokovic but they are both impressive and deserve to be in Finals. I hope to see a great match. Just going to be an unbiased tennis fan tomorrow. Not pulling for one over the other. But it would be nice if both players fell ill and they decided to let federer and Berdych play for finals instead.

                    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                    Boca Raton

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                    • #40
                      Fed does not care about any tournament but the slams. He doesn't give full effort or energy for Davis cup either! (How else does Isner beat him at home, basel, on indoor davis cup clay?) He is so good, that there is really no reason for him to lose to anyone, any time, any surface, but that's life I guess. Everyone loses no matter how good you are, there's always someone else better, with more control, more power, more calm, more energy, more zone going on. It's like a mango. All that fruit, yet, at the end, no matter how hard you try, you cannot suck all the flesh and flavor off the seed, and the seed always wins! Choose to be the seed, not the fruit, not the skin, for the mango skin is thin and can't take much, and the fruit is over rated.
                      Last edited by GeoffWilliams; 10-13-2012, 07:31 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by geoffwilliams View Post
                        Fed does not care about any tournament but the slams.
                        I agree...
                        Stotty

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                          I agree...

                          Ditto.

                          You can just see it. It's about 4 tournaments. 8 weeks a year. With his career, is it going to make or break him if he wins or loses Shanghai?

                          Who won 2001 Milan Indoors? Anyone...Bueller...Bueller.... Roger Federer over Julien Boutter. If Roger was a career Top 50 player or even Top 20, that may be a well remembered win for his fans and media. But when you achieve what Roger achieves, 2001 Milan Indoors is a drop in the bucket.

                          Roger cares about Grand Slams, and maybe London's World tour Finals but that's really it.


                          Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                          Boca Raton

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                          • #43
                            Ok, but just one more thing...well maybe two

                            I get it now. Federer doesn't care. Of course. Why didn't I think of that? One reason that I didn't realize that is because of my Quixote complex...I care too much. I'm usually the last one caring too, like the poor old Don Quixote so you can imagine the terrible ramifications that has had on me through the years.

                            Take the Prince racquet for instance. It was as if I was the only one that cared when "they" were making the switch...when "they" stole the sport right out from under us. I yelled bloody murder...and got repaid in scorn. That's alright, I played my part...instead of Kramer vs. Kramer with Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep, it was Kramer vs. Prince Graphite. It was DeNiroesque and Pacinoesque all wrapped into one. Navarroesque one might say. I wish you guys could of seen it...one of you probably did. Ok...it was really stupid and set the tone for the rest of the futility and the nonsense. No wonder you can't appreciate Celine, Kyle. You are too level headed.

                            But take Roger for instance. You guys are right and I didn't see it. The whole time that Murray was pasting him at the Olympic Gold Medal match I had a difficult time believing my eyes but yesterday I saw it again...even if it wasn't so obvious. He didn't care. Not that he didn't care enough to go out and make a good showing of it. Nobody could of accused him of tanking yesterday...even though Koenig and his partner kept repeating that he was doing some things so badly that they thought they were epic lows for the Fed Express. Things like double-faulting three times in a row to lose his serve in the first set.

                            I can understand too...in a sense it is getting late in his career. You can only go around the world so many times playing tennis at the speed of light. At 31 he's been there, done that. Why take a risk of blowing a cog somewhere along the way? Somewhere like Shanghai. I noticed how he was delaying the play because of a few drops of rain on the court...he kept saying why take the risk. I thought it was gamesmanship but he knows how many zillions are on the line at the next stop, the next show. He can afford to pick and choose. Live to play another Grand Slam. Live to play the Barclay's. I get it now. Why take the risk? It's a little like Big Time Wrestling...only not nearly as queer.

                            gsheiner may of had it right with a theory that he had about Federer...he posted it in the "Gold Medal" thread. He speculated that Roger would rather lose to Murray for reasons so bizarre that that there may be an element of truth to them. When he posted it I thought it was ridiculous but now I am not so certain. Federer is plotting his course...in the twilight of his career. Maybe he didn't want to play Djokovic just now...perhaps he isn't in top form after a layoff. Let the two of them fight it out while he lays low in Switzerland playing with the twins relaxing for 48 hours before the next stop...the next show. Who knows? The truth these days is definitely getting stranger than fiction.

                            But the one thing that bothers me. Come on...you know what its going to be don't you? It's the racquet. Federer's racquet is 90" sq. and Murrays is 98" sq. That is 10% for all intents and purposes unless you want to quibble with me. In the hands of trained professionals this is simply too much of a discrepancy. It is too much of an advantage. You can see it in the play. At least I can. Why doesn't Annacone get him to go to some Prince Space Monster for the rest of his career? He could pick up a few more baubles and billions in cash along the way. What a coup that would be for Prince!

                            Better yet why doesn't tennis limit the area of the hitting surface to 90" sq. I can just see nokomis telling me now that it will never happen. I know nokomis. I am just musing. I am only thrusting my puny little pen...actually my keyboard, figuratively my sword at gigantic windmills. But I cannot for the life of me figure out that if he truly cared about giving himself the best chance in any given match that he would not seek out a superior piece of equipment. If I were him I would take that antiquated piece of work to the deepest lake in Switzerland and heave it as far as I could. Just like Arthur tossed Excalibur to a wet and deep resting place. But it's getting late. Why taint the legacy.

                            You know...one thing that I have learned later in life is that to be the one that cares too much about things is not necessarily a good thing. You can get disillusioned on a daily basis. The one that doesn't care in the end holds the power. Once you don't care you can afford to be more ruthless.
                            Last edited by don_budge; 10-13-2012, 11:26 PM.
                            don_budge
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                            • #44
                              Bored...

                              He's not been caring for a while now...at least not in the lesser events. He looked banal yesterday. He's not prepared to dig in anymore, that's what it is. He'll go through all the motions and so long as he meets little resistance he still looks the same old sublime player he was. It's a testament to the man that he can still beat the whole world bar the top 4 playing that way.

                              Geoff is right, it's all about the slams. You never know if he keeps pacing himself like this and the draw pans his way he might just nick another grand slam yet.
                              Stotty

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                              • #45
                                Santa Claus...

                                Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                                He's not been caring for a while now...at least not in the lesser events. He looked banal yesterday. He's not prepared to dig in anymore, that's what it is. He'll go through all the motions and so long as he meets little resistance he still looks the same old sublime player he was. It's a testament to the man that he can still beat the whole world bar the top 4 playing that way.

                                Geoff is right, it's all about the slams. You never know if he keeps pacing himself like this and the draw pans his way he might just nick another grand slam yet.
                                All three of you are right. It is only me that has suffered yet another letdown. I remember when I found out there wasn't a Santa Claus...I think that I was eighteen at the time.
                                don_budge
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