The Forehand Volley

[don_budge]

Very interesting...

It's all about control in my mind.....With the speed of the current game, outside/in paths subtract from incoming ball speeds, which is a requirement.

This is a fascinating thought...I think. So fascinating that I will need some time to think it over. When 10splayer's thought about outside/in for control is taken in context with tennis_chiro's contention of inside/out in order to "stick" we have a bit of a dilemma. Or do we?

[don_budge]

Nastase and McEnroe...

It's all about control in my mind.....With the speed of the current game, outside/in paths subtract from incoming ball speeds, which is a requirement.

Ille Nastase and John McEnroe are two players that come to mind when I think of the ability to come around the ball on either the forehand and backhand volley to caress it with an outside/in path.

These two characters sort of changed the landscape for volleying at the time and made the game more exciting...or course their behavior had something to do with that also. But in line with their unpredictable behavior was their ability to surprise their opponents and to disguise their intentions.

Up until their take on the approach and volley game the volleys tended to be more Hopmanesque and Australian style. The American volleyers also reflected this same style. The Bad Boys sort of raised the bar with their touch and control...and their continental grips.

[don_budge]

One for the money and two for the show...

This is a fascinating thought...I think. So fascinating that I will need some time to think it over. When 10splayer's thought about outside/in for control is taken in context with tennis_chiro's contention of inside/out in order to "stick" we have a bit of a dilemma. Or do we?

After thinking things over a bit...walking in the woods on a crisp autumn day.

Could it be that one's volleying philosophy might be...number one stick the first volley and number two angle or feather for the kill? Is it possible that it would be the reverse in other situations? Angle first...kill next. It appears that one must be able to use both sides of the ball and all points in between. There is no single right answer.

I am more convinced than ever that the motion of the arm, hand and racquet in the Oscar Wegner video coupled with the body and shoulder motion of the Gonzales first volley is the way to teach it. In the end you pray that the student ends up with the volleying instincts of a Cash, Laver, Newcombe, McEnroe, Nastase, 10splayer or Brosseau.

[10splayer]

After thinking things over a bit...walking in the woods on a crisp autumn day.

Could it be that one's volleying philosophy might be...number one stick the first volley and number two angle or feather for the kill? Is it possible that it would be the reverse in other situations? Angle first...kill next. It appears that one must be able to use both sides of the ball and all points in between. There is no single right answer.

I am more convinced than ever that the motion of the arm, hand and racquet in the Oscar Wegner video coupled with the body and shoulder motion of the Gonzales first volley is the way to teach it. In the end you pray that the student ends up with the volleying instincts of a Cash, Laver, Newcombe, McEnroe, Nastase, 10splayer or Brosseau.

IMO, the answer relates to the difficulty of the incoming ball.....we generally see on low balls more of the outside/in path for touch/control, and yet on easier balls perhaps more of direct linear transfer of energy..

I think it's important to note, that there are an array of "paths" needed to get the ball to behave...so it's not as simple as inside/out, outside/in etc....It just seems to me, that the sheer velocity and spin associated with the modern game, places the premium on more of an outside in path, that subtracts from incoming ball speed. At least that seems to be the bias.

[stotty]

Inside out...doubles.

IMO, the answer relates to the difficulty of the incoming ball.....we generally see on low balls more of the outside/in path for touch/control, and yet on easier balls perhaps more of direct linear transfer of energy..

I think it's important to note, that there are an array of "paths" needed to get the ball to behave...so it's not as simple as inside/out, outside/in etc....It just seems to me, that the sheer velocity and spin associated with the modern game, places the premium on more of an outside in path, that subtracts from incoming ball speed. At least that seems to be the bias.

I believe the inside/out path is more commonly used in doubles rather than singles. I use it frequently in doubles. You're only covering a narrow corridor of court when volleying in doubles so far more likely get volleys where you can play the inside/out.

[don_budge]

What do you think...tennis_chiro?

So we are saying the same thing on the forehand volley. OK.
don

I really think that we were basically saying the same thing. Here is Boris Becker executing three forehand volleys about as well as I can teach it. The motion of his hand definitely has some similarities to the Oscar Wegner video within the context of the shot that he is hitting. It is the volley that you are advocating unless I am mistaken here too.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/borisbecker/borisbecker_volleys_oh/bb_fh_volley/bb_fh_volley.html?BBFHVCourtfront.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/borisbecker/borisbecker_volleys_oh/bb_fh_volley/bb_fh_volley.html?BBFHVCLSide.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/borisbecker/borisbecker_volleys_oh/bb_fh_volley/bb_fh_volley.html?BBFHVCLSide2.mov

Again...I just want to emphasis that I was only borrowing the hand motion from the "Oscar" video which doesn't violate anything that I said repeatedly over and over in "My Thoughts on the Volley". I am, like you, an energy conservationist and would never advocate a swing that loses 50% of its energy by the time impact is achieved. I maintain that from an instructional view it was a very helpful tidbit as the hand motion has always been a difficult concept to instill in students that are not accustomed to going forwards and to the net...and hitting underspin.

In all of the volleys that I have viewed this same motion has been used in some derivative shape or form within the context of the shot being performed.

I think that in golf for instance...if you are trying to hit a slice you come over the top or outside/in and if you are trying to draw the ball you come from the inside or inside/out. But whether or not you are hitting either variation it is not a matter of hand motion but one of ball position and setup...it is not a product of the hand motion which is virtually the same in either case. The same can be said of the video...this hand motion can be used for hitting the ball on the inside or the outside. It is a matter of how you set up to the ball and where you strike it.

Boris appears to be hitting the back of the ball in all three of these volleys and he makes a bit of a compensation in his low volley but the basic motion of his hand is still there. His technique is just perfect from the way he gets the racquet into position, through the hit and then the short follow through. It is rather textbook it looks like to me.

[nokomis]

So we are saying the same thing on the forehand volley. OK. But you are making light of the emphasis that you yourself place on getting those shoulders turned. This is very important. When I start with the toss and catch drill learning the volley drill from scratch, I want the student to catch the ball with both hands so they get the feeling of turning that left shoulder.

As for the backhand volley, I am still waiting for some response, except for Stotty.

don

Well, I certainly agree with the shoulder turn - at least trying to get them to "about" 45 degree. If a player is moving forward (lets agree to call it a "serge" as one poster referred to it - I actually like the term) the legs can be very helpful.

I also like the exercise of catching with two hands and plan on using it. With younger players, its difficult at times (most of the time), getting them to use the shoulders on the volley and overhead as well. Some, get the turn but unfortunately rotate out of it way too early - I ran into this yesterday with a bunch of kids.

Great discussion & good article.

[nokomis]

This a terrific post by tennis_chiro. I agree one hundred percent about the backhand volley and about getting "stick" on the ball. The Pat Cash article is very informative about volleying. It also demonstrates that not all volleys are hit off a compact swing...higher volleys can have a far longer follow through. Just look at Rafter moving through this backhand volley....

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelSide4.mov

Yes, very true. I like using the floating down the stream and over the waterfall example. But again the shoulder turn is critical here.