Your Strokes: Eva So: Forehand

[johnyandell]

Would love you hear your thoughts on "Your Strokes: Eva So: Forehand"!

[klacr]

John,
Great Article. I've tried this type 3 forehand with some of my students with good results. I approached it much like you did with Eva. I currently work at the club level and the vast majority of players have the same issue that Eva has. One of the coolest things about teaching and fixing a stroke is that when you focus and correct the right component there will be other segments in the stroke that correct themselves. This is always the students favorite part as well.

I'm totally geeking out to this new issue. I love it. Keep it up John.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[mark81]

Brian Gordon's article on the ATP forehand has had a huge impact on my coaching with regards to the forehand. I coach a lot of competitive junior players in Austria and Europe - in particular girls between the ages of 10 and 16 - and can't emphasize enough how much improvement many of the young girls I coach have made on the forehand as a result of Brain's research. The two biggest changes are in their ability to handle pace as well as how much harder and cleaner they are now hitting as a result of hitting those checkpoints Brian outlined with regards to the backswing. It was simply a fantastic piece of research on Brian's part and I can't wait to see what he reveals next.

[alexandrafranco]

closed racquet face

I see many players with their racquet closed at the begginning of the stroke and Eva starts with the edge(I suppose she has more of a continental grip), to get to the closed, pat the dog position, would it not be more beneficial to start with racquet closed?

[bottle]

Long Arm Bias

I've thought a lot about this, will think about it more, don't have the answer. It's perfectly okay to say that Roger Federer-- who definitely is the chosen model for Brian Gordon's work (a choice provocative in itself no matter how much we admire Roger), closes his racket head while it's up at the approximate same level as HIS head, but how exactly does he do it?

Does he lift his elbow like Bernard Tomic or the more so of Ivan Lendl? Hardly. But perhaps barely. Does he press his palm down according to Bradenspeak? Well yes if you watch the video loop in the article repeatedly as we all should. From the front observe the racket tip clock down just at the end of that sequence. Same thing from the back, but here one can see how the little move involves the whole bent arm structure-- which twists! (Exclamation point is from chess notation. It means that the analyst thinks he's found something.)

Remember that the arm will straighten now, which will close the racket head more. Yes, a straightening arm whatever the grip always closes the racket head more although this notion seldom gets expressed.

But more about the little clockwise alteration of arm structure as seen from the rear. Is not Roger's elbow relocating to just behind the body at the same time? I would like to think of this as scapular retraction though not much of it, certainly not all that is physically available. Because I need scapular adduction (slingshot) in area of ball to make not overly muscled topspin work.

I've always admired you, Alexandra of Portugal, for having more ideas than most people. Do you know the Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa? But I can't think about short-armed forehands just for today.

[GeoffWilliams]

There is no snap back in her shot. The type three all have snap backs. They attain auto consistency with smooth fast energy at coil and uncoil, and the frame bevel closes off at take back and then "flips" at snap back towards rear end of the players. Why so few women ever master this is a mystery. Can't be the level of difficulty. Can't be that they are not taught the snap back. So what is it then? Don't the same coaches teach the women?

[stotty]

Backswings and tiddlers

I was really interested in this article. I was especially keen to see how tackling the excessive backswing would pan out…what teaching tricks would be used. Reducing a backswing can be a real challenge. I can reduce a student's backswing...only to see it increase in size again a week later. It's all about finding coaching tricks to help achieve the desired result.

Using video is one way…setting the racket in the correct position at the end of the backswing is another…tapping the player's racket as they rally if it goes beyond hitting side of the body another, and so on. The bottom line is the student needs to be committed. John's student is certainly all of that.

But what about very young (under 10) players, where verbalised coaching and video analysis has much less impact. Fortunately, I bumped into a great pro a while back who has found the answer. It's a coaching method that works consistently well.

Many young kids develop enthusiastically big swings, we all know that. You can ask him/her to reduce their backswing but they will have no past experience "feel" concept for how to do it….no past experience "feelings" they will be unable to carry out what you ask. The cure:

Have kids with excessive backswings hit 10 normal forehands to the back of the court. Next have them hit 10 forehands that must land in a service box, or even state the ball must bounce twice in the service box. Repeat the exercise over and over. Notice when they hit into the service box how the backswing will reduce significantly, usually to where you'd want it. Once kids get used to what the "feeling" of a shorter backswing feels like they can usually start producing it on request. After around 4 to 6 weeks it's job done. Don't doubt me. I've been doing this with 95 percent success for over two months now. It's still a patient job, but it works.

It's all about giving kids the "feeling" of what to do rather then "asking" them to do it, which is basically a hopeless method with 7, 8 and 9 year-olds.

It's important club coaches and grass root coaches learn to solve these conundrums of basic technique, or the coaches higher up the chain will inherit players who are too flawed to make really good players from. It's perhaps the coaches at the bottom that count the most...in fact it definitely is .

[tommym]

Still hitting with the arm

She might have improved her backswing slightly but she will still be late on shots and exert a lot of effort to hit the ball - because she is still hitting with the arm.

Her mental image is that she needs to turn to prepare and then hit the ball with the arm.

The correct mental image is to turn to prepare and then turn/rotate to hit the ball and in the last part just before the contact allow the arm to work with the energy supplied from the rotation.

In her case the rotation of her body lags behind the arm - which means she initiates the move forward with arm first. That will cause many late contacts. Telling her to prepare early won't fix that.

[johnyandell]

Tommy,

That's a tricky one and not sure I agree. In the before video she is definitely overrotated at contact. The after is better. My own view is that the hand position in the backswing may create the lag, but trying to rotate first actually leads to late hitting.

[bman]

She still has that issue where the racket face is sort of open as she comes through contact. That's a tough one and I have no solution.

Also, needs to keep the left arm up longer, not just fall limply as she goes to contact.

[stotty]

Cool

This really is a great article about a regular club player. A great lesson for all coaches. Reducing excessive backswings in both adults and youngsters can produce dramatic results. It nearly always leads to greater consistency and more controlled power.

Tennisplayer is widely respected here in the UK. Many coaches have become switched on to the idea of creating type 3 forehands...they have become familiar with the work of John and Brian Gordon... reducing excessive backswings has become a key thing....especially in junior girls, where it's widespread.

Word spreads fast...

I wonder how long it will be before the majority of the women's tour have forehands that resemble the type 3 model?

John is absolutely right when he says correcting Eva's backswing automatically improved other components of the stroke. I've noticed the same thing in many of my students...so many things improve as a result of just that one change. How cool is that.

[don_budge]

Question Johnny Boy (Mean Streets, Robert DeNiro character)...

Would love you hear your thoughts on "Your Strokes: Eva So: Forehand"!

How many hours were invested between the before and after results? Just curious. Loved the music video! Lots of love in the process...isn't there?

[stotty]

Eva's Forehand

John
Admire your work and your tie up with Brian Gordon, slow motion and biomechanical function are a powerful combination.
From my limited knowledge of biomechanical function, I might suggest that Eva's left shoulder and left hip would be causes for concern, not only for her forehand technique but possibly for greater injury risk there and possibly her lower back. (What does her Husband Ken say?)
My focus is to find functional remedies that enhance performance and reduce injury risk for the recreational players I work with.
Her old and new take backs include little obvious external rotation at the shoulder and her forward swing before and after appears to be unaided by much hip movement or internal rotation and enough extension at the shoulder.(her rotation in the forward swing seems to start at the elbow. Does that mean her deceleration of the movement only starts there and what does it mean for the muscle and joints further up the chain that are not being decelerated.)
She is not using her body's range of motion in all three planes, possibly through previous injury or a combination of lack of use or training.
Correcting these biomechanical dysfunctions with simple exercises in function might be the simplest way to permanently improve technique and reduce injury risk. I try to do this for myself and my clients by using routines based on Applied Functional Science and they appear to be making a lot of difference, but are a work in progress.
John, I would welcome your comments on my videos on "Improving your Range of Motion in Function" on my YouTube channel Tenniseye1.
My forehand video will be up in a few days but the serve video gives an explanation of method.
Look Forward to your comments.
Vaughan Ebrahim
Licensed LTA Senior Club Coach
GI Foundation Applied Functional Science

[johnyandell]

Vaughan,

Thanks for the thoughts. I tend to think that if certain key positions are right, the rest will take care of itself. When I see Eva again I paln to work more on the image of the contact point, see what that does and take it from there. I still see her contact as late and maybe still too far to the side.

Can you clarify what you mean and translate the biomechanical terms? I am not seeing clearly what you are talking about.

[stotty]

Eva's Forehand

John
I agree with you that if certain positions are right the rest falls into place.
The only difference in approach would be that for me biomechanically right is the objective with both performance and recreational players. I am an Applied Functional Science novice with about 15 months study and some direct experience with my own game and the players I coach. (Nike have just teamed up with the Gray Institute for AFS to launch a Golf programme)

As I understand it Eva's take back on her forehand is straight back at the shoulder with no external (backwards) rotation which would be the preferred way for the body to slow the backwards movement (lengthening to decelerate) prior to moving forwards (contracting to accelerate). You can see this external rotation in Federer's movement and it is clearest as he moves through the flip into the slot (Brian's terms). The forward movement should involve internal rotation at the hip as well as straight line movement and internal rotation at the shoulder. In Eva's case the hip follows the arm and the internal rotation is only clear to see form the elbow to the wrist at the end of the motion as her body tries to decelerate the forward swing. ( does she have any lower back stiffness and aches after playing.) These movements occur throughout the arm and there are other movements at the elbow and wrist which I won't detail now for clarity.
I am working with some players with similar profiles to Eva and with similar technical problems. I have worked on simple exercises to extend their range of motion at the hip, shoulder, elbow and wrist which have helped them achieve sounder technique and helped with some stiffnes and aches (lower back) they were experiencing after playing.
It has been my experience recently that the most significant barrier to learning good technique is an individuals' range of motion. I can teach good technique but if my player has a limited range of motion in key parts of the kinetic chain he or she will be unable to reproduce it. Training the body to extend a range of motion in all three planes, in function, has worked with all my players whether they are older with less responsive bodies or younger and need to learn how to move.
I hope you have stayed with me as it can be a bit dry to read but once you try functional training the results speak for themselves. The routines are simple and easy to do and have helped me regain good biomechanical function for everyday activity and tennis at 60.
If you are interested to understand more u can see my youtube channel tenniseye1 or visit the Gray Institute site who have pioneered Applied Functional Science in the States for the last 30 years and are now working with Nike in Golf. It will be Tennis next but the process works for all activity, as it is based on the principles of how the body is designed to work in function.
Thanks
Vaughan