Hello Do Coaches here have any Statistics for Teaching?

[tennislearningforlife]

Quick question--do anybody have pro swing from above?

Hello does anybody have pro swing and camera angle is from above?

I would like to see how pro hit from very top view.

And I could like to compare with Classic swing VS Modern swing.

I assume Federer has big circle and Sampras has more forward motion. I think we can see clear different from the top.. Does anybody have it?

thank you

[tennislearningforlife]

Very inspirational thank you mr Don

Thank you very much Mr. Don. It is very inspirational to me and you have helped me so much. It is a very much frustration job since I do care very much about my students improvement. I have been teaching tennis quite sometime and it is embarrassing to say that i have not developed any great players Most coaches blame on student that they don't work hard enough but if you are teaching for while and working hard and not producing great player then I believe that it is coaches fault. I believe it is because i was forcing non-athletic players to teach way pro hits. Actually this kills students future.
I believe that if students start out right then I believe they enjoy the game more and more even they play once a week. Then they have more chance that they want to compete in higher level.

Actually I was bit surprised that you read my long post before I edited. And was glad you read and it you are agree with it. It gives more confidence.

Thank you very much. Hope this is not last conversation. I have more questions to ask. Just this never ends.

Thank you very much again.

[don_budge]

Thank you...for your astute questions

I read your response before you edited it. I agree with your conclusions. We may of gotten mixed up in the translations a bit. I agree with your golf analogies. We got a little confused about rotational and forward motion.

From my perspective I was using rotational from a golfers point of view...hitting from more or less a closed or neutral stance in order to achieve more rotational energy. The open stance stance seems to promote the illusion of creating this rotational energy. I was referring to forward motion as the player moves forward in a linear direction instead of staying behind the ball as an accomplished golfer or Roger Federer does. I hope that this clears up our misunderstanding...learningtennisforlife.

Your method of engagement is very admirable. Nice talking with you...I enjoyed it immensely. Great conversationalists ask even greater questions. I have learned a lot from you as well and what a pleasure to engage with someone who loves and respects their students as you do. Thank you.

[tennislearningforlife]

Thank you again mr Don

Thank you again mr Don learning great stuff from you everyday..
thank you...

[don_budge]

Sorry...I missed this question.

Thank you very much Mr Don

My question to you is that.. so from the start is it better to focus on more rational swing? or better to be more forward when player is starter player?

to me this is two different animal.

Thank you again

I missed this question somehow...not like me. I like nothing better than a good question...except maybe...but anyways this is a good question. It is one animal though...but the animal usually has a duplicate nature. It is the only animal to study himself in the mirror which gives you an idea just how duplicidness its nature can be. OK...it is two different animals. One good and one evil. Wait a minute...that wasn't your question, was it? I am promoting my thread on the mirror...hahaha.

I think that right from the beginning I am trying to begin the process of teaching the student elements of the rotational swing. But that being said...it seems that it is human nature to go forwards to meet the incoming object. Staying behind the ball while you swing such as accomplished by Roger Federer is a lifelong quest in most cases.

An interesting aspect of rotational vs. forward motion swings is the use of the wrist. The wrist behaves naturally as a hinge and works effectively solely when performed when swinging...and not hitting. It seems that the main objective of the rotational for all of its complexities is to get the wrist to behave in the simple and natural way it was intended to perform. Brian Gordon has written a couple of rather compelling epics to this regard. Proper footwork is another key aspect of attaining more rotational energy into the swing. The proper transfer of weight is necessary for any true understanding of the proper way to swing a tennis racquet. The proper way to swing is with the shoulders ROTATING around the head and neck and not surging forwards.

You begin with the objective of teaching the rotational as the end goal or product and accept that along the way you will be doing a lot of deprogramming of the impulsive forward motion...which includes a lot of inappropriate use of the wrist and faux pas footwork. Perhaps one could say that they begin to teach the rotational swing to offset the natural tendency to go forwards with the hope that the two diametrically opposed techniques will someday merge. A prerequisite to teaching rotational energy is getting the student to get themselves in proper position to begin their forwards motion. This in itself is a science...or a metaphysical challenge.

[tennislearningforlife]

Thank you. very much again mr don

Thank you very much Mr Don

My question to you is that.. so from the start is it better to focus on more rational swing? or better to be more forward when player is starter player?

to me this is two different animal.

Thank you again

[don_budge]

Golf on the run...

I did ask previously but I do need to ask again this one.

Do you feel much easier for starter kids to get forward motion rather than rotation motion??

And I do want to ask hitting tennis ball with more forward motion is more effective than hitting with rotational? i mean i see majority of players do hit with rotational nowadays.

Please help thank you so much

Another great question...who is this guy? Good work...learningtennisforlife!

I like to see a lot of rotational motion...this is evidence that the player is in position to make the swing. Players that are in better position more often than their opponents are more than likely going to end up on the long end of the stick.

But of course the game is played on the run...as opposed to golf, so there is going to often be some forward motion that goes along with the compensating motions that are attributable to lack of perfect setup position. Forward motion is the kiss of death in a golf swing. The best players also make better compensating motions when they are out of position. Take Roger Federer for instance...get in position so that you can stay behind the ball when you swing.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/music_videos/federer_fh_not_gone/index.html

You done me wrong baby...

[tennislearningforlife]

Great coaches Another important question to ask

I did ask previously but I do need to ask again this one.

Do you feel much easier for starter kids to get forward motion rather than rotation motion??

And I do want to ask hitting tennis ball with more forward motion is more effective than hitting with rotational? i mean i see majority of players do hit with rotational nowadays.

Please help thank you so much

[tennislearningforlife]

thank you so much again great coaches

Great coaches thank you so much again.

mr. don, klarc, licensedcoach

all thank you...

I believe that when you have "Very solid" method and teaching can be very much fun. If you have a system which can make student improve fast then you can enjoy the teaching a lot more.

I believe many coaches make mistake that "if I can do it, you can do it right away" But it is truth that many coaches still like to teach way they play and that's pretty natural i think. I see aggressive coach tend to teach kids more aggressive, coach love to volley then i see him working on a lot of volley...

My swing is fairly modern swing. I hit open stance and lots of rotation with lots of spin. But I actually have to admit that other coach who teach more classical way.. I mean more forward and racket over the shoulder. Their students seem to get thing lot easier. I believe i might be tough for students to get rotation swing rather than forward swing.. am i right?

[klacr]

Great work

Yes, I remember this thread. Great work all the way through. I enjoyed all of it, well except for the Berdych comments by some...LOL. (Partial to Berdych)

G's serve has really progressed and it's great that some of the forum guys could help. Doug Eng's analysis at the end was a nice touch.

What's the latest on G. How's he doing? Is he still having fun?

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Serving thread

Maybe I have seen it but don't remember it. I would love to take another look. I can totally geek out to that stuff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle here it is:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1981

You can watch the serve develop throughout the thread. Many in the forum chipped in with advice as you will see. It became a kind of work in progress. don_budge contributed a great deal...bottle got excited with it too, and tennis_chiro.

Above all it was great fun....

[klacr]

don_budge, I agree with your specialist skills on the serve...from having had a kind of "virtual real life experience" of them. I wonder if Kyle as seen the work on the forum we carried out with G? I think I left most of the clips up there on youtube.

Kyle, much of G's development was down to don_budge. It was quite a journey. tennis_chiro was also much involved. I'll see if I can dig out the thread...must be there somewhere.

Maybe I have seen it but don't remember it. I would love to take another look. I can totally geek out to that stuff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

The serving maestro....

don_budge, I agree with your specialist skills on the serve...from having had a kind of "virtual real life experience" of them. I wonder if Kyle as seen the work on the forum we carried out with G? I think I left most of the clips up there on youtube.

Kyle, much of G's development was down to don_budge. It was quite a journey. tennis_chiro was also much involved. I'll see if I can dig out the thread...must be there somewhere.

[klacr]

don_budge, you are not having a conversation with just yourself. You are having a conversation with all of us. And what a good one it is. You make alot of great points. I always insist my students learn the basics and foundation first, then their game and their natural strengths and weaknesses will show, we'll start from there when it comes to molding their game. As much as I'd love to teach my students the way I play and what I do, but it can be difficult and probably not in the best interest of anyone to teach a petite 50 year-old unathletic woman serve and volley attacking tennis and a one-handed backhand that is far superior to my forehand just because their 6'6" 200 lb coach does it . Of course that's extreme but I think you get my point.

There are some classic models I follow but to take tennislearningforlife's question literally I actually would not want to teach my students exactly the way I play. Can I teach all the shots, you better believe it, but with all honesty and integrity I hope to make every single student of mine better than their coach. I hope they succeed in their games and improve enough to far surpass me. I'm pretty sure I can help them and teach them better shots that what I was taught (especially that of my forehand ) I would hope to identify and fix the issue of their game that I knew plagued me and I hope to install a sense of individuality in their games that showcases their own unique arsenal of skills and attributes. I rather not let my game or my attitude live vicariously through the students, rather let my students live vicariously through tennis and all it has to offer.

I think all coaches subconciously have their own thoughts and opinions and what's best for their student, and as long as the student enjoys the game of tennis and enjoys the process then there is nothing wrong with modeling and molding your students to a notion or belief of what is right or wrong. Just teach, have fun, let your students enjoy and appreciate our game and keep learning yourself. The game of tennis is always changing. Exciting stuff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

I have answers...for which there are no questions.

Hello great coaches...

I have a question. How many of coaches here teach the students way you hit or play?

This is simple question but very important for me.

thank you

There are so many questions and at least as many answers. Funny that you ask. Perhaps my answer will be funny as well. I don't know about you guys but I am really beginning to like and appreciate this tennislearningforlife. I like the user name...so thoughtful, so infinite.

But yes...do as I say or do as I do? What's it gonna be? Here's an interesting thought for you...seeing as I am left handed. I find it a great advantage to be facing my students when teaching them. It is somewhat like a "Alice in the Looking Glass" effect. It's perfect...a reflection. My students certainly learn to reflect upon. What with the mirror effect and the rest of my rigamarole. You get the picture...or the reflection. This is my do as I do aspect of teaching...but you must use an * when you think about it. Do as I do.*

Do as I say? Of course this is a big part of it. I think that I am a much better teacher than I ever was a player...not that I didn't have a vast amount of undeveloped potential for combination of demographic reasons or just my own excuses. I have learned so much from my "other" experience that contribute to my understanding and knowledge with regards to the game of tennis. So in this regard much of what I teach is "do as I say". My own game is pretty solid fundamentally speaking but probably not so deserving of serving as a model such as Gonzales or Federer.

I teach from the basis of my philosophical model and my motto...which is for the umpteenth time and I never get tired of repeating myself (as my students tell me)..."The book is Tilden. The model is Gonzales with the Budge backhand. The coach is Hopman and Federer is living proof". I believe that I could coach a Davis Cup team based on this motto. The Universal School of Tennis. This is how I teach...but I can demonstrate all of the shots from any part of the court and all points in between. I suppose my teaching is more do as I say than do as I do. But then again maybe it is equal parts. I think my brain is a mirror with two mirror image sides to it. Left or right? You have asked a great question...sir. I am having a wonderful conversation with myself trying to get to the bottom of it.

The one aspect of the game that I absolutely insist that my students adhere to when it comes to my approach is my service motion and service tactics which are still pretty much perfect even at 58 years old. Perfect in a "earthly" sense. The interesting thing is...is that bottle is discussing my living model over in his "New Year's Serve" thread. It is the "real" Don Budge service motion that I had the great pleasure of discussing with him almost 40 years ago. I don't remember his exact words but he spent some time in developing my motion...he took a special interest in it because he really liked what he was working with. We talked tactics as much as mechanics. So I am passing on what a legend taught me a long time ago. All of my students if they engage with me will end up with something of a clone of the Don Budge original. I consider myself somewhat of a specialist when it comes to teaching the serve and my students generally "reflect" that.