Hello Do Coaches here have any Statistics for Teaching?

[tennislearningforlife]

Thank you very interesting

Thank you very much.

It is very interesting. There are many study done that if you start volley with countinental grip and end up not be able to hit volley.

I usually emphasize on countinental grip on volley and sliding down the ball so you get more back spin for safety.

I may have to change this tactics.

So did I get right?

1) use more easter grip for slice and volley for both side. Slightly more toward countinental right?

2) Flatter contact is better volley-ball will run more. So I assume you teach volley to be more straight forward and not cutting down.


If it is not too much to ask, if you could help me how you teach stroke will be very much appreciated thank you so much again

[don_budge]

The Spin of the Volley....

So did I get right?

1) use more easter grip for slice and volley for both side. Slightly more toward countinental right?

2) Flatter contact is better volley-ball will run more. So I assume you teach volley to be more straight forward and not cutting down.

You sure did get it right tennislearningforlife. That is pretty much exactly what I think about the volley. The racquet head is very much moving forward (as is the volleyer)...and it is descending at the same rate as the leg and the body sink into the front foot. Not a cutting motion at all...but slightly downward and descending to impart the desired amount of underspin. The backhand motion can be more easily "cut" with excessive spin particularly if you are "caught" with the weaker forehand grip in a quick exchange.

One idea that I introduce to a prospective volleyer right from the beginning is "Mr. Wall"...coincidentally he appears to have been Boris Becker's mentor as well. I introduce Mr. Wall as the best volleyer in the world and I tell the student to carefully observe the technique that he uses. After drilling about forty volleys into the wall (slowly at first then dramatically picking up the pace until it is too fast to continue) I ask the student what the wall did. They sometimes look a bit perplexed...but the answer is of course simple...the wall did absolutely nothing. Except to be a wall and never miss.

Another idea that I emphasis immediately after this demonstration is the fact that placement of the ball is much more important than generating more speed on your return shot. You cannot over emphasize the need for a shorter swing. The ball is approaching you and you are approaching the ball...when you collide there will be plenty of energy in the collision but the trick is to control the placement, the speed and the spin...with a short swing or no swing and with a nice rotation of the ball backwards.

The earth is a ball...a ball in the game. In a game where the object of the game...is to learn the rules.

So the task is somewhat to build a wall out of the student...a living and breathing very portable wall that is somewhat flexible. You must fit the wall to the approaching ball.

[don_budge]

Vilas!!!!!

Tennis is a moving game...

don_budge, I have a clip just for you....86 stroke rally, lasting 2 mins 24 secs...talk about shot tolerance...just shows what a trip to the net can do to finally finish a point...even on clay.

Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZZMuXBr_Hk

I remember seeing Guillermo Vilas at the Washington Star Tournament back in 1972 or 1973. I was at the Don Budge Tennis Camp for the summer and the camp took a field trip to the tournament. Vilas was a phenomenon that summer and he won everything on the clay court circuit. I remember The J. Donald himself complimenting the Vilas backhand...he just loved how he was coming over the ball with the heavy topspin.

My buddies and I used to play a lot of table tennis on the weekends. We spent many an evening down in the basement of one of my friends playing an inordinate amount of ping pong...usually with a beer and maybe something else. We were screaming, hooting and hollering if his parents weren't home. I would be Vilas...if I cracked a topspin backhand winner I would yell VILAS!!! As if it was Davis Cup down in Buenos Aires.

Borg finally traipses in to end the point and Vilas blows it long...after 86 shots then he calmly heads to the ad court to receive the next serve from Borg. Just another point...albeit a long one. hahaha!

[klacr]

I am sorry i just can't stop shooting my questions. I just have millions of them.

1) If Wozniaki was taught by Robert Landsdorp, say she was taught to hit more flatter, do you think she could have won the gram slam by the time now?

2) If Pete Sampras was grew up on Clay and taught to hit like Nadal would he had same career he did?

3) If Nadal was taught by Robert Landsdorp and learn to hit the ball flatter then he would have won more slam and with less injuries?

4) If Andrew Agassi did have Roger Federer Stroke would he have better career?

5) If Ival Lendl did have Roger Federer Stroke would he have better career?

6) This is serious question, if Sampras, Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Hingis, Macenroe, Djorkovic, Lendl, if they become tennis instructor and teach exact same person I mean same height, same athleticism, who do you think produce the best player?
My question is if they start age of 8, then first match is 10, then 12, 14 16,18, who develop the winner?


Thank you very much

Wow!

You ask some pretty interesting questions. I appreciate your curiosity. Unfortunately, those questions you ask are merely hypotheticals. What if my grandmother had balls? She'd be my grandfather and maybe I would'nt be here today.

Can't really answer your questions, not because I don't want to but because sometimes the best answer to our questions is our own imagination.What do you think would happen to these players. There is a good chance you are absolutely correct. But one thing is for sure...we'll never know.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

In a word...Mac

I am sorry i just can't stop shooting my questions. I just have millions of them.

6) This is serious question, if Sampras, Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Hingis, Macenroe, Djorkovic, Lendl, if they become tennis instructor and teach exact same person I mean same height, same athleticism, who do you think produce the best player?

Without a question...McEnroe.

[stotty]

Without a question...McEnroe.

Either Lendl or Mac...you can certainly discount the others.

[tennislearningforlife]

Thank you very much

Thank you gentlemen again.

Very Interesting you pick Lendl or Mac.

Le't assume that they teach their student how they hit.

My assumption is that Mac teaches following

1) straight back take back
2) countinental or Eastern grip.
3) fairly flatter shot.
4) lots of volleying --probably develop them to serve and volley game.
5) with close stance.

Lendl

1) straight take back
2) Easter or Semi western
3) close stance
4) more spin
5) high over the shoulder finish
6) strong baseline game
7) lots of footwork


From my experience.. most instructors do teach way they play. I mean that's natural right?? Unless you are pretty bad player and if you are bad player and you won't be teaching tennis. =)

I read one article said that Lendl wanted pro players to use more neutral or close stance.
Macenroe insisted that player need to shorten up the swing little bit and work on more volley games.


My whole idea of this thread is which way of teaching can develop the player without hurting them. That's the my whole point..

And I do believe more and more classic teaching can be the one hurt less on starter players.. Am I right?? I mean giving best foundation.
such elements are

1) simple
2) easy to get
3) has elements which can lead to next stage


thank you very much any opinions are very much welcome.

[stotty]

Lendl/Mac

Lendl or Mac would not teach how they played back then...they are way too smart for that. The game's moved on, they know that...very likely they would teach the modern way as it suits the modern equipment better.

But it's all hypothetical...pointless actually...Mac and Lendl are never going to teach the grass root players or even highly thought of juniors...they are more likely to inherit students who are close to the finished article in terms of technique.

I'm not sure what you mean by coaching the classic way? If you mean teaching closed stances and conservative grips, this certainly has its place in coaching...depends on the player/their ability, etc.

You can't generalize about these things in coaching, you really can't...it depends who you're dealing with.

[tennislearningforlife]

Thank you Again

hello thank you very much for again for your input

All the opinions are very interesting.

Well, my point was actually assuming they teach the way they hit.

So my point was if kids were taught more classic way, or modern from from the start which one improve the best....

Thank you

[tennislearningforlife]

This is my Statistics of teaching.. Opinions please

Many great coaches here gave me great information and I have learned so much last few days. And i am still learning.

These are the statics i have from my experience. please give me feed back

These statistics based on starter players with average or less athletic and play only once a week
Again also feed back is very much welcome since probably my teaching is not so good so may not working.

1) For most starter players do not get correct open stance. Not only that it destroy their stroke. They do not turn their body completely and also they try to use open stance for every single shots. They tend to wrap too soon and not hit through the ball well.

2) Not getting into mechanics aren't really good idea, most kids do not have patient to repeat same thing over and over.. They get really irritated and when they get upset then they lose motivation to play.
Open stance is one of the thing can irritate players since open stance involves so many stuff. Keep weight on right foot, rotate hit, point left hand to side fence, bending knee and list goes on and on.

3) I see kids get into more when they are hitting more ball. They like rally or playing matching instead of correcting them every single second.

4) Teaching Unit turn and loop isn't difficult to teach. 100% of my students do not have any problem getting unit turn and having racket head up when you take racket back. i do not teach straight back take back anymore since all of the students can get unit turn easily. This includes age 5 also. Also starter adult

5) From racket up position to drop the racket below the ball is challenging part. 50% of my students racket tend to behind of their body. But actually this isn't that difficult to fix. And some reason they tend to listen to this one pretty well without getting too irritated.

6) Many people will go against me on this one. I teach spin right off the start with wiper swing around their neck. At first they pull the shot a lot but after i would say 4 lessons they get used to it and they can start hitting nice top spin. This goes really well with neutral stance. And if you get this swing, they can hit the high ball right away.



Summary:

1) neutral stance
2) mild wiper swing with finish around students neck
3) Unit turn-racket head is up. Left hand point to side fence and racket face point to other fence also and this will lead student to have semi western grip.
4) dropping racket below the ball- (Never emphasizing on racket face down )
5) Start with Spin-in past i taught flat and several problem i encounter. Their ball never went in, and when i decided to teach spin, they could not get it. Students could not adjust forward motion to up ward motion. Any change is actually pretty challeging to them.



Please give me opinions. Suggestions are very much welcome. I do not mind if you criticize me badly. That's the only way I can learn right?

Thank you very much

[tennislearningforlife]

Hello Great coaches, i have questions

Hello great coaches...

I have a question. How many of coaches here teach the students way you hit or play?

This is simple question but very important for me.

thank you

[don_budge]

I have answers...for which there are no questions.

Hello great coaches...

I have a question. How many of coaches here teach the students way you hit or play?

This is simple question but very important for me.

thank you

There are so many questions and at least as many answers. Funny that you ask. Perhaps my answer will be funny as well. I don't know about you guys but I am really beginning to like and appreciate this tennislearningforlife. I like the user name...so thoughtful, so infinite.

But yes...do as I say or do as I do? What's it gonna be? Here's an interesting thought for you...seeing as I am left handed. I find it a great advantage to be facing my students when teaching them. It is somewhat like a "Alice in the Looking Glass" effect. It's perfect...a reflection. My students certainly learn to reflect upon. What with the mirror effect and the rest of my rigamarole. You get the picture...or the reflection. This is my do as I do aspect of teaching...but you must use an * when you think about it. Do as I do.*

Do as I say? Of course this is a big part of it. I think that I am a much better teacher than I ever was a player...not that I didn't have a vast amount of undeveloped potential for combination of demographic reasons or just my own excuses. I have learned so much from my "other" experience that contribute to my understanding and knowledge with regards to the game of tennis. So in this regard much of what I teach is "do as I say". My own game is pretty solid fundamentally speaking but probably not so deserving of serving as a model such as Gonzales or Federer.

I teach from the basis of my philosophical model and my motto...which is for the umpteenth time and I never get tired of repeating myself (as my students tell me)..."The book is Tilden. The model is Gonzales with the Budge backhand. The coach is Hopman and Federer is living proof". I believe that I could coach a Davis Cup team based on this motto. The Universal School of Tennis. This is how I teach...but I can demonstrate all of the shots from any part of the court and all points in between. I suppose my teaching is more do as I say than do as I do. But then again maybe it is equal parts. I think my brain is a mirror with two mirror image sides to it. Left or right? You have asked a great question...sir. I am having a wonderful conversation with myself trying to get to the bottom of it.

The one aspect of the game that I absolutely insist that my students adhere to when it comes to my approach is my service motion and service tactics which are still pretty much perfect even at 58 years old. Perfect in a "earthly" sense. The interesting thing is...is that bottle is discussing my living model over in his "New Year's Serve" thread. It is the "real" Don Budge service motion that I had the great pleasure of discussing with him almost 40 years ago. I don't remember his exact words but he spent some time in developing my motion...he took a special interest in it because he really liked what he was working with. We talked tactics as much as mechanics. So I am passing on what a legend taught me a long time ago. All of my students if they engage with me will end up with something of a clone of the Don Budge original. I consider myself somewhat of a specialist when it comes to teaching the serve and my students generally "reflect" that.

[klacr]

don_budge, you are not having a conversation with just yourself. You are having a conversation with all of us. And what a good one it is. You make alot of great points. I always insist my students learn the basics and foundation first, then their game and their natural strengths and weaknesses will show, we'll start from there when it comes to molding their game. As much as I'd love to teach my students the way I play and what I do, but it can be difficult and probably not in the best interest of anyone to teach a petite 50 year-old unathletic woman serve and volley attacking tennis and a one-handed backhand that is far superior to my forehand just because their 6'6" 200 lb coach does it . Of course that's extreme but I think you get my point.

There are some classic models I follow but to take tennislearningforlife's question literally I actually would not want to teach my students exactly the way I play. Can I teach all the shots, you better believe it, but with all honesty and integrity I hope to make every single student of mine better than their coach. I hope they succeed in their games and improve enough to far surpass me. I'm pretty sure I can help them and teach them better shots that what I was taught (especially that of my forehand ) I would hope to identify and fix the issue of their game that I knew plagued me and I hope to install a sense of individuality in their games that showcases their own unique arsenal of skills and attributes. I rather not let my game or my attitude live vicariously through the students, rather let my students live vicariously through tennis and all it has to offer.

I think all coaches subconciously have their own thoughts and opinions and what's best for their student, and as long as the student enjoys the game of tennis and enjoys the process then there is nothing wrong with modeling and molding your students to a notion or belief of what is right or wrong. Just teach, have fun, let your students enjoy and appreciate our game and keep learning yourself. The game of tennis is always changing. Exciting stuff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

The serving maestro....

don_budge, I agree with your specialist skills on the serve...from having had a kind of "virtual real life experience" of them. I wonder if Kyle as seen the work on the forum we carried out with G? I think I left most of the clips up there on youtube.

Kyle, much of G's development was down to don_budge. It was quite a journey. tennis_chiro was also much involved. I'll see if I can dig out the thread...must be there somewhere.

[klacr]

don_budge, I agree with your specialist skills on the serve...from having had a kind of "virtual real life experience" of them. I wonder if Kyle as seen the work on the forum we carried out with G? I think I left most of the clips up there on youtube.

Kyle, much of G's development was down to don_budge. It was quite a journey. tennis_chiro was also much involved. I'll see if I can dig out the thread...must be there somewhere.

Maybe I have seen it but don't remember it. I would love to take another look. I can totally geek out to that stuff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton