Shaping Forehands

[stotty]

The forehand is my favourite shot in tennis. For me, it's the backbone of a player's game. The shot fascinates me. I work very hard to develop good forehands in my students if I can. I like forehands to be simple to produce and reliable. A weak forehand equals a player who will always struggle to win tough matches.

Where possible I try install good forehands in kids from the outset:

Here are four of my youngest players in the order they appear on the clip: Louis, aged 7, Owen (8), Vinay (7) Misha (8). All have ability and are as keen as mustard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qvbCngyPhA&feature=youtu.be

I like to get youngsters to achieve key technical things:

*Establish a good grip (I encourage a conservative grip with the very young)
*Develop the unit turn
*The non-hitting arm stretch across the body
*The tip of the racket pointing upwards when commencing the backswing (I am very fond of this type of start to the backswing)
*Develop a good base with the feet.
*Keep the backswing on the hitting side of the body

I am gradually ticking all the boxes with the four boys. The last item on that list is trickiest to maintain. All kids want to whack the ball and the type 1 forehand surfaces very quickly…it's kind of obvious it will happen, isn't it?. As you can see from the clip, Louis and Owen extend their backswings a little too far…but I am working to tame their exuberance. Misha lacks shape yet while Vinay cannot mentally separate when to use an open stance and a neutral stance.

The next clip shows the girl from the infamous "backswings" thread posted around a year ago. She recently turned 10 years old. The original backswings thread had to be deleted from the forum because of abusive remarks from one individual. It was a shame because it was one of the best threads I ever started on Tennisplayer. The contributions from other coaches were immense. Tennisplayer has an array of experienced coaches on the forum who form a powerful coaching team when united together.

The thread (with video clips) centred around a girl with an excessive backswing. I was concerned about her backswing because it ventured way beyond the hitting side of her body. Though many women on the tour have excessive backswings, I was uncomfortable with it in her case. Her forehand was both powerless and erratic.

Many coaches contributed to the thread with recommendations for how to improve her forehand. Brian Gordon chipped in with advice, stating the forehand backswing was part of a body of work he was embarked on. I now guess that must have been his latest work on the ATP forehand.

I am posting two clips:

Clip 1: Shows where the girl's forehand was last year. It shows her excessive backswing, It also reveals a full semi western grip and a dubious start to the backswing; with the head of the racket lagging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwne-vvrErI&feature=youtu.be

Clip 2: Shows the latest in the girl's development on the forehand side… with most of the boxes ticked…still work to do but we're getting there. Don't you just love the way she is itching to move and work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFxeaD_V4vc&feature=youtu.be

I wonder how other coaches develop forehands in their young players? I wonder what boxes you like to tick when developing forehands in young children? Feel free to comment on the kids in the clip but have in mind the children are very young and I can only achieve so much at this stage.

[johnyandell]

Sany is a natural born killer.

[tennis_chiro]

Lots of work and lots of fun!

My first thought is you have a lot of work ahead of you the next few years, but a lot of fun too! I think all except Misha (as you point out) have the beginnings of real good forehands. Misha is trying a little too hard to run the ball to the other side of the net. Even there are the beginnings of a good little player.

But it seems to me that they are all moving a little too much as they hit the ball. I know they are trying to hit a sharp, aggressive forehand, but they seem to be trying to jump into the shot. I'd like to see a little more of a rotation and turn around a firmly planted front or even just slightly anterior off foot (left for righties) or in an open stance a clear rotation about an imaginary stake through the left hip or even the right hip if the ball is caught very late; but there has to be a point about which the body rotates. Only later would I have them let the momentum of the swing take the right side of the body (for righties) up into the air and into the court. But I would not have the whole body moving forward. Am I too stuck in the old world??

Also love Sany's aggression when the ball comes, but I would want to try to introduce somewhat more economical footwork to her; somewhat more "Federian". I know you are a great admirer of Federer's movement; Sany's footwork is more like the Spanish model with all the side steps; obviously, it works great, but I prefer the economy of Federer.

As you pointed out, Owen and Misha's backswings are a little too far behind them,but I would be more worried about Owen's swing as he ends up with a later more circular forward swing. Misha looks like he straightens it out and gets inside/out on the ball pretty well. Owen, on the other hand, appears to me to be pulling the ball a little bit more.

But they definitely are taking great cuts at the ball and by and large holding it on the strings pretty well; for their age, I think it's terrific and very promising.

don

[julian1]

Could you elaborate,please?

Could you elaborate,please? Eastern forehand for forehand?
Your quote
"I encourage a conservative grip with the very young"

[stotty]

Grips

Could you elaborate,please? Eastern forehand for forehand?
Your quote
"I encourage a conservative grip with the very young"

I always start young kids off with an Eastern. If they start off with semi-western, then there is a risk over time they will move to a full-western. Full western doesn't work for most players in my view. And it's murder to get kids to move their grip back to semi-western once it has slipped around unnoticed...coaches nightmare in fact.

[julian1]

When to move to semi-western?

I always start young kids off with an Eastern. If they start off with semi-western, then there is a risk over time they will move to a full-western. Full western doesn't work for most players in my view. And it's murder to get kids to move their grip back to semi-western once it has slipped around unnoticed...coaches nightmare in fact.

The only question remains when to move to semi-western?
Did you get my link about Murray at blog.tennisspeed.com?

[stotty]

Semi-western

The only question remains when to move to semi-western?
Did you get my link about Murray at blog.tennisspeed.com?

When I gauge the time is right or sometimes it simply works its way round on its own.

Missed the blogspeed thingy...what was that?

[julian1]

Comparing forehands of Murray and Federer

When I gauge the time is right or sometimes it simply works its way round on its own.

Missed the blogspeed thingy...what was that?

It was
comparison of forehands of Murray and Federer

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2012/01/...nd-part-4.html

I think they played the match lately,but I am NOT sure

[julian1]

Trajectory

What kind of side trajectory do you expect from Sany?
A drawing could help,if possible

[stotty]

What kind of side trajectory do you expect from Sany?
A drawing could help,if possible

The blogspeed link is broken.

I don't go too much into the science of things with young kids, so coaching trajectory is not for me. I go for an overall basic shape when coaching forehands and ask kids to copy good examples. It's hopeless talking science to 7 and 8 year-olds...or most adults come to that.

I have a pragmatic approach to coaching.

[jasonfrausto]

When I gauge the time is right or sometimes it simply works its way round on its own.

Missed the blogspeed thingy...what was that?

Agreed, each kid has their own timeline based on how things are progressing. Eastern has been the best starting point for the majority of my students. I don't want them going full western "accidentally".

[stotty]

Grips and Stances

Agreed, each kid has their own timeline based on how things are progressing. Eastern has been the best starting point for the majority of my students. I don't want them going full western "accidentally".

We're on the same page with this one! Going full western "accidentally" is likely to happen if a child is given a semi western grip from the get-go. It always seems to shift round that little bit more, doesn't it?

The other key issue is that of which stance to teach. Vinay in the clip hits with a closed stance and is really comfortable with that. He gets confused separating semi open with closed or neutral.. I am just leaving him with what he is comfortable with for now. The other boys can hit off a semi open stance or a neutral stance without confusion.

A closed stance works well for Vinay at the moment. He clouts the ball harder than the other three kids put together. When the time is right I will introduce him to the other stances.

A performance centre not far from me teaches all children, regardless of ability, to hit with a semi-open stance. I never do this. If children are clueless, I always teach closed/neutral stance. If they have ability, I still teach a neutral stance but introduce them to a semi-open stance as soon as the times seems right. There seems to be two different schools of thought on this one, though.

[stotty]

Rick Macci

I think most coaches and parents could do with listening to Rick in this clip. It ought to be mandatory.

http://www.tennisresources.com/index.cfm?area=video_detail&rv=1&vidid=3515

[don_budge]

My Opening Salvo...I am back.

I have gone from being stranded on Gilligan's Island to stranded at Green Acres (my wife being the Hungarian Zsa Zsa Gabor character). The problem with technology is what do you do when nature takes control as she did here last week and knocked out our phone and internet with her thunder and lightning. What do you do? Not much...basically you are screwed, shit out of luck. You can't fight Mother Nature. Finally today...a new modem and back in the cyber flow of things. I have been reading this thread on my new iPhone and chomping at the bits...I am making a serious effort to catch up in the technology department. It's child's play compared to mastering the game of tennis or golf.

But here we go Stotty my friend. With all due respect I heartily disagree with you here on the footwork issue. Keeping in mind my motto is still...the book is Tilden, the model is Gonzales with the Budge backhand, the coach is Hopman and Federer is living proof.

As far as I am concerned philosophically you have veered off course with this lackadaisical approach to footwork. But rest assured you are not alone...the rest of the herd are heading over the cliff as well. So the question is...do you want to follow or lead?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

This is what your ideal forehand position looks like when you are examining arguably the best all around forehand in the game. Notice the position of the feet. Just look at and admire the position that Roger Federer is in when he is set to go forward...three vectors or lines. Feet, body and racquet. If you are shaping forehands these days this is option one, two and three. That being said there are bound to be differences of opinion.

When Roger is in position to be really aggressive on the forehand side this is how he looks. When he lines up all of the vectors involved in his swing...his feet, body and racquet, he is in position and balanced to make his most effective swing. This is the position from which he will attempt most of his winners or forcing shots. If he is in less than perfect position...he instinctively realizes it and in turn he will play a more neutralizing or defensive shot. You can bet the farm, though, that Roger will do every thing humanly possible to get in perfect position as often as he can. He understands that this dramatically increases his chances of creating a successful shot...and enable him to dictate play. This is a big part of the struggle between two tennis players...which one will get in the better position more often when they hit their shots.

Stay tuned. There is more to this story. Listen up...American tennis.

Btw...I just finished watching "The Man and The Maestro" send Del Potro packing to go back home to Buenos Aires...19-17 in the third set. Setting up a match for the gold. Not bad for an old guy...of 31. Djokovic or Murray?

[don_budge]

Proper position of the feet...or Lower body Fundamentals ala Hogan

So why is it that the position of the feet is so important? Golfers, unlike tennis players, always begin their swings from stationary positions. Each golfer spends years learning to correctly build their stance in order that they can build a swing around it. Shaping their swings. With this in mind...remember that tennis is "golf on the run".

Every golfer up until this point has chosen to build their golf swing around a rather neutral stance...except of course perhaps "Happy Gilmore". Golfers will, however, adjust their stance accordingly from slightly closed to slightly open depending upon how they will shape a particular shot. But the default position is plus or minus...neutral. This is the position to correctly teach tennis players to swing their tennis racquets on the forehand side...the default position ought to be the neutral or slightly closed position. Like Federer...you cannot argue with this guy.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

I am going to pass along a very vital tip...from none other than Ben Hogan...the golfing icon. I have a tape of Ben Hogan and Sam Snead playing a match on an old TV series called “Shell’s Wonderful World of Golf”. These two golfing legends play a match at the Houston Country Club and afterwards both Snead and Gene Sarazan both exclaim that they have never seen a finer round of golf played than the one just completed by Hogan...he was flawless. At the conclusion of the match Sarazan asks both golfers for their comments on the most important part of the golf swing and this is what Hogan had to say.

“The most important thing of the golf swing to me, is the movement of the lower body from the top of the swing (“get in position” position). First of all, it starts down below with your knees and your hips. At the top of the swing you move the lower part of your body, not your shoulders...letting your shoulder, arms and hands bring you into position to hit. This is the first movement there (Hogan demonstrates that as he turns his hips from the top of his swing his hands come down into position without any movement from his hands) then you release at the bottom of the swing.”

After watching your videos and reading the preceding comments I felt compelled to comment on the importance of the action of the lower body in the swing...whether it be a tennis swing, a golf swing or swinging a baseball bat. There are certain fundamentals that one should be strongly advised to observe when transferring the weight of the body to most efficiently transfer the energy into the racquet head and subsequently into the ball. In order to make this most fundamental move to the ball...your feet must be in the proper position.

My contention is that any forehand that is shaped around open or semi open stances are going to have certain characteristics that are going to infringe on the maximum potential of the swing later on down the line. Forehands that are shaped around open and semi open stances tend to be too dependent upon arm motion without having the strong base underneath it from which to make maximum use of the power of the lower body.

This is fundamentally speaking of course. Tennis is a game of offense and defense so of course one must learn to swing from different stances but the default position ought to be the closed or neutral stance. Especially for beginners or fledglings.