Murray's serve...and Wimbles final with Federer.

[stotty]

One thing Murray had to do to beat Federer was serve better. There is something wrong with Murray's serve and it's hard to put your finger on quite what. In big matches it often fails him. It could just be that he hits it way too flat, or maybe he opens his body too early on some of the more wayward misses…and his left arm pumps wildly out of the back of his body on some of his miss-directed serves.

One thing is for sure is it lacks variety. He rarely goes for a booming serve down the centre line when serving to the ad court, it's always the bazooka delivery to the backhand side, always. Federer knows it's coming too.

Murray's second serve was also dissapointing. He just rolled it in at around 85mph (don't know the stats but that's what it seemed like). What was he thinking of to even bother doing that! Federer couldn't believe his luck. He was able to chip and charge on Murray's 2nd serve almost will if he chose to.

Federer played well, he was sublime, masterful and majestic. Of course he was! When someone hits the ball at three-quarters pace to him he looks like no one in the world can touch him. That's why things always look so different when he plays Nadal. Nadal never, ever gives Federer the luxury of a lovely ball to hit.

Murray came out of the blocks well and played a good 4 or 5 games, after that he slowly but surely switched to passive…shame…as a Brit it breaks my heart.

Like John Yandell says, Murray now starts from 0-4 like Lendl had to. But I have to doubt Murray has the same metal as Lendl. You simply have to take big matches by the balls. Lendl was rather good at that.

[don_budge]

Net faults...due to a excessively quick delivery, due to stress

One thing Murray had to do to beat Federer was serve better. There is something wrong with Murray's serve and it's hard to put your finger on quite what. In big matches it often fails him. It could just be that he hits it way too flat, or maybe he opens his body too early on some of the more wayward misses…and his left arm pumps wildly out of the back of his body on some of his miss-directed serves.

Like John Yandell says, Murray now starts from 0-4 like Lendl had to. But I have to doubt Murray has the same metal as Lendl. You simply have to take big matches by the balls. Lendl was rather good at that.

You are absolutely right about the service Stotty. Did you notice how he consistently missed his first serve in the net? This, to me, is virtually inexplicable at that level of tennis. This guy is 6' 3" tall...how could he possibly miss so many in the net from that height? First of all...I teach my students to never miss the first serve in the net. Missing the first serve in the net may play havoc with your nerves in a tight match. If you miss in the net it is difficult to "feel" what kind of adjustment you must make on the second ball. This would perhaps explain Murray being tentative with the second ball.

If you miss the first ball long...depending upon how long you miss by, you have only to adjust the spin on the second delivery to securely put the ball in the court. Without having to take anything off of the velocity. If I miss my first serve long...I feel that I can be a bit more "fatalistic" with the second ball and swing even harder with more spin. I have my students practice hitting the ball long while standing two meters behind the baseline. You would be surprised how this help to iron out the wrinkles in the motion and at the same time ingraining the type of tempo that you need to maintain when the chips are down.

Which brings us to the question as to why Murray was consistently missing in the net. I believe that hitting the serve in the net is often caused by a motion that is too quick...therefore the racquet face is tilted slightly downward at contact, thus the collision with the net. Hitting the ball long conversely indicates a racquet face that is slightly open at contact. What causes a motion that is too quick...particularly in tight matches? Obviously one of the reasons is technique but I think that the underlying reason that Murray faults in the net is that he is stressed out a bit...he is anxious and the result is a motion that is a little too quick.

When studying Murray's service it looks to me as if he has a very fine motion. But the problem is that in a match such as the finals at Wimbledon when the screws are really being tightened in his noggin...his backswing starts to morph into the forward swing too quickly. I would like to see a degree of separation at the top of his swing where I get the feeling that the racquet head is descending by the force of gravity alone and picking up speed a bit more gradually going into the loop and into the delivery to the ball.

Federer has this degree of separation at the top of his service and more importantly he has the experience and the nerve to hold the tempo even when he is stressed. This is why he can give you the impression that he is doing it effortlessly. Because he is. But that being said...sometimes in tight matches these days he gets a bit stressed and seems to lose his tempo as well and then he gets a bit quick in his delivery. But I have never seen him miss in the net as much as Murray did Sunday.

Personally...I don't get to play that much competitive tennis anymore so when I get into a situation where I am tense or nervous I focus on two things with my service motion. First of all...I focus on the toss and I make sure that I toss the ball into the court so that I will be aggressive...and not try to pussy out on my swing. Secondly...I concentrate on getting the racquet up into position at the top and I like to feel the head descend on it's own (remember the roller coaster analogy?) and then I feel that it is time to step on the accelerator. Be it gradually mind you. No rushing. More power and more control with less effort. It is sort of like the golf swing...you can't rush it and expect to have good results.

You have hit the nail on the head, licensedcoach. If Murray can get this right he will feel more comfortable on his service game without being stressed. Once he has this confidence in his service game it will allow him to be more aggressive on the opponents service game. This is one of the big improvements in Djokovic's game. He now has the supreme confidence in his own service game to hold comfortably and when he gets the timing down on his opponent's serve...watch out.

Nobody gets it right any better these days than "The Man" himself...Roger Federer. Perhaps it would be more correct to say in the recent past as sometimes even Federer himself seems be losing just a tad of this supreme serving confidence at crucial points in big matches. But this is what made him so tough through the years...especially against opponents that are not as aggressive on the return as you noted in the Wimbledon thread about lesser opponents...opponents that may be having difficulty with their own service games. Once he gets rolling on his service game he can be overwhelming. His ability to serve out matches used to be quite legendary. As it is now...well you saw how he closed out Murray when he smelled blood. Like a hot knife through butter.

But you never know about people. They can often surprise you. Not always in a good way, true. I remember when tennis people had pegged Ivan Lendl as someone who "choked" under pressure. He went on to prove them dead wrong. Can Murray do it? Sure he can. He took a big step in getting to the finals of Wimbledon but he must learn to capitalize on his experience. Astute analysis of what he did well and what he needs to improve upon is absolutely imperative. Hopefully Dr. Lendl will be able to put him on the path...to his destiny. Murray seems to be lacking in confidence...and passion. You need this kind of juice in your tank to go up against Roger Federer on center court at Wimbledon and feel it is your destiny to win.

Hej Stotty...do me a favor and pass this on to Andy Murray. I will be more than happy to help put this man on the fast track to some Grand Slam titles. It comes down to intangibles at a certain point. Little things can make a big difference. I would like to have a little chat with the young man...even if it is a fantasy chat. It makes no difference to me.

[klacr]

You are absolutely right about the service Stotty. Did you notice how he consistently missed his first serve in the net? This, to me, is virtually inexplicable at that level of tennis. This guy is 6' 3" tall...how could he possibly miss so many in the net from that height? First of all...I teach my students to never miss the first serve in the net. Missing the first serve in the net may play havoc with your nerves in a tight match. If you miss in the net it is difficult to "feel" what kind of adjustment you must make on the second ball. This would perhaps explain Murray being tentative with the second ball.

Good Observations.

I noticed Murray's faults as well. That serve was missing in the net more frequently in the later stages of the match. I also noticed his tossing arm was flailing to the side again. He has a tendency to swing that left arm wildly out to his left side after contact, especially in some of the bigger matches he has played...and lost. Knowing the fact that Federer was willing to crush any serve that came to his forehand to put Murray on the defensive certainly was playing on his mind to go for more. His 1st serve % dropped from the 2nd set on. 2nd set: 72%. 3rd set: 49% 4th Set: 45%.

[GeoffWilliams]

Too much to go wrong on his serve. I can hit 85mph seconds. When Fed ran around, he did not adjust, either on serve or in rallies. Fed did adjust. One man is master of tactics, and it became more tactical when the roof closed, and one is not. He needed to go after the fh more in both modes.

[stotty]

Left arm

Great observations from don_budge as usual. Us Brits could do with you over here. I always look forward to what you have to say in the many threads you contribute to.

Not sure what you mean, Geoff, about too much going on in his serve? The action seems basically sound and during most of the year on the tour his serve serves him well. It's just on the big occasions that it seems to let him down...and at the moments when he most needs it...on big points. The very essence and benefit of having a great serve is to be able to call on it when you need it most: Like Sampras and Gonzales. Remarkably, Federer cannot always rely on his serve when it comes to the biggest of points. I'm sure this must be more mental than technical because I can find zero wrong with Federer's serve.

don_budge's observations on Murray's serve are interesting...about the "backswing morphing into the forward swing to quickly", etc.

I travel up to Wimbledon every year and have watched Murray play many times. I can tell you many of his first serves are hit very flat. It's either a bullet or nothing. He can hit slice, of course, but rarely does so, especially when serving to the ad court. What is very striking is how violently he flings the left arm out behind the body as he completes the serve. It almost gets "chucked" out "completely straightened" like an unwanted part.

See below and compare Murray with other players (Agassi and Sampras). Agassi keeps his left arm tucked in! I used a youtube clip to show Murray's serve because the clip in the archive doesn't reflect what happens on 98 percent of Murray's serves. The clip in the archive shows the left arm releasing out of the serve in a much more orthodox way than happens most of the time. Anyway take at the look at the clips yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwow2QGkNuw

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_serve_and_volley/aa_1st_serve/aa_1st_serve.html?AA2ndSAdBHVRear.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/petesampras/ps_serve/ps_1st_serve/ps_1st_serve.html?PS1stSAdRear.mov

Now, does this mean anything or is it irrelevant. To tell you the truth I don't know and I was hoping some of the more technically minded folk might be able to shed some light.

[don_budge]

The Serve, The Toss, The Nerves...Stan Smith

don_budge's observations on Murray's serve are interesting...about the "backswing morphing into the forward swing to quickly", etc.

This business about the "morphing" could very well be related to the toss which could very well be related to being anxious, as both you and klacr have pointed out...there seem to be some anomalies in the tossing technique of Murray.

Your point about the relationship between the mental and technique aspects of serving are absolutely spot on. A perfect motion based on gravitational rhythmic tempo (you feeling me on the east coast tennis_chiro) breeds the supreme confidence in your ability to hold serve or to serve out of a jam. Holding that tempo when the nerves are in play is the acid test.

Federer breathes confidence on his serve most of the time...if not all of the time. He strolls up to the line, glances at his opponent, poised on back toe, two bounces then...BOOM! So many different serves off the same motion. Now we are back to the Stan Smith school of serving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxcMr1Ya5w0

I think that you are right licensedcoach...the Murray camp needs to start scrutinizing the service game of Andy in order that he transcends to the next level. It would in the very least be a great place to start.

[klacr]

Andy Murray's Serve

Thanks for the shout out don_budge

If Andy Murray wants to crack that Top 3, an improved serve will greatly help. As well as other parts of his game. That left arm flying out to the side is unique on his serve, and perhaps detrimental. Seems like a nervous tick to me. it seems to get more pronounced as the match gets tougher and tougher.

But if you look at Murray's entire game, what does he have that is the best in the world? You could make the argument that Federer has the best serve and/or forehand. Perhaps Djokovic with his backhand, returns and movement, Nadal with his movement and forehand. All clearly the best in the game. Murray is great, but his shots may be 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best in world. He doesn't really have a defining shot that makes him the best. Couple that with a natural propensity to defend and counter, not a bad thing, but what if you face a guy that is aggressive, and can naturally attack like a Federer, or a guy who is playing hot and can manufacture winners like a Berdych or Wawrinka who played great at the US open in 2010.

Don't get me wrong, I think Andy Murray is a great player. He's trained down in Boca Raton and Delray Beach and I have seen him in practice. I would say the cliche that he works really hard, but at that level, all the players work hard. I hope if he improves just one facet of his game so it becomes the premier specific shot (dont care if its forehand, backhand, serve, volley, returns, movement) that Great Britain will have a Grand Slam Champion soon. As long as its not over Federer or Berdych.

Sincerely,

Kyle LaCroix

[GeoffWilliams]

He has the highest split step in the world, but then, Chang and Hewitt did too. Edberg had the lowest knee bend going into the net off split. Agassi was best on advanced splits, perpendicular feet. But that just affects movement. (What's he get the most credit for? His defense and movement.) His serve and attack mode have to be worked on. His strings should change from alu/vs to the other way around.

[klacr]

His strings should change from alu/vs to the other way around.

So VS natural in mains, ALU in crosses? I like where you're going with this. Please elaborate.


Sincerely,

Kyle LaCroix

[GeoffWilliams]

He uses a pt57a 16 x 19, a frame with an ra of about 59 or so, strung at 61/61 or so. He admitted that with the bbc interview during Wimbledon, as he said, "I use the same racquet since I was 14."


The alu is built for clay court control, not vs power. Djoker and Fed both use vs/alu for the power. The mains provide power, and the crosses are just the tensioners that control depth and angle. In his case, the alu dampens down the vs power too much, as he uses the pt frame which is soft and flexy. He also dropped the total mass down after he hurt his wrist, but I don't know if he kept it lower or not. He went from 365g-347g.

[bobbyswift]

It appears to me that his left arm travels too far clockwise on toss. He has too much left hip internal rotation creating his turn. His head goes up much earlier then Federer or F Lopez. Knee flexion also too soon for height of his toss.

[stotty]

Left arm business

The more I look at Murray's serve, the more it looks like that gigantic lunge he takes into the court after he's struck the ball...causing the right leg to kick back so high...also causes the left arm to be thrown out in such exaggerated fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwJCYRzbv68&feature=related

It's a bit like a fast bowler in cricket (English game) the way the back leg gets thrown back way into the air... (bottle will like the mechanics in this one even if no one else does)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE_TnuVCFE0

[julian1]

Serve of Murray

Great observations from don_budge as usual. Us Brits could do with you over here. I always look forward to what you have to say in the many threads you contribute to.

Not sure what you mean, Geoff, about too much going on in his serve? The action seems basically sound and during most of the year on the tour his serve serves him well. It's just on the big occasions that it seems to let him down...and at the moments when he most needs it...on big points. The very essence and benefit of having a great serve is to be able to call on it when you need it most: Like Sampras and Gonzales. Remarkably, Federer cannot always rely on his serve when it comes to the biggest of points. I'm sure this must be more mental than technical because I can find zero wrong with Federer's serve.

don_budge's observations on Murray's serve are interesting...about the "backswing morphing into the forward swing to quickly", etc.

I travel up to Wimbledon every year and have watched Murray play many times. I can tell you many of his first serves are hit very flat. It's either a bullet or nothing. He can hit slice, of course, but rarely does so, especially when serving to the ad court. What is very striking is how violently he flings the left arm out behind the body as he completes the serve. It almost gets "chucked" out "completely straightened" like an unwanted part.

See below and compare Murray with other players (Agassi and Sampras). Agassi keeps his left arm tucked in! I used a youtube clip to show Murray's serve because the clip in the archive doesn't reflect what happens on 98 percent of Murray's serves. The clip in the archive shows the left arm releasing out of the serve in a much more orthodox way than happens most of the time. Anyway take at the look at the clips yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwow2QGkNuw

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andreagassi/aa_serve_and_volley/aa_1st_serve/aa_1st_serve.html?AA2ndSAdBHVRear.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/petesampras/ps_serve/ps_1st_serve/ps_1st_serve.html?PS1stSAdRear.mov

Now, does this mean anything or is it irrelevant. To tell you the truth I don't know and I was hoping some of the more technically minded folk might be able to shed some light.

For those with access to www.tennisicoach.com
please see

http://www.tennisicoach.com/Andy-Murray-First-Serve-biomechanical-analysis

[jasonfrausto]

The inherent flaw in the Murray serve is a lack of pronation. Look at all the big boys and how they pronate, Murray is severely lacking in the pronation department. I'm shocked that with the resources he has that nobody has pointed this out to him before....

Look at each frame after contact, his racket face stays nearly flat like a pancake to the ground compared to the other top guys.

[stotty]

Not steep enough

The inherent flaw in the Murray serve is a lack of pronation. Look at all the big boys and how they pronate, Murray is severely lacking in the pronation department. I'm shocked that with the resources he has that nobody has pointed this out to him before....

Look at each frame after contact, his racket face stays nearly flat like a pancake to the ground compared to the other top guys.

Yes, Murray is a flat server and doesn't work the ball anything like some on the tour. Doug Eng thinks his right elbow is too high and his upward swing is not steep enough; when you compare him to other big servers on the tour, you have to agree. This is perhaps a key reason why his serve is relatively flat.

Most people seem to think that although his left arm gets violently flung out at the end of the serve, it makes little difference to the serve overall, as everything the arm is doing would seem fundamentally correct.