Hitting Short on Purpose

[giancarlo]

I am not far from Rogers's place in Switerland, and I am having a blast playing on clay. I get to hit with my old friends and coaches. It's a blast.
After the hitting, we often exchange the latest ideas in teaching-- and of course--what's currently wrong with Roger . The Swiss criticism is tough to hear sometimes. In one of the conversations, I mentioned the recent trend (last 3-4 years) from the pros of hitting short on purpose. Early on in the rallies, you see Fed and Nadal--and most of of the Spanish guys hitting balls just barely past the service line, and often right through the middle of the court. (there are lots of examples of this in the awesome patterns archive). These balls cannot be attacked, since they have lots of spin (probably in the high 3,000--5,000RPMs). Now, the reaction I got here to this statement, is that they are actually not aiming for the ball to land short, but are actually aiming for a deep ball!
I cannot believe that Roger and co. are not able to hit past the service line--for that many balls in a row. But what do you think? Have the Swiss here gone crazy?

Greetings from Switzerland.

[stotty]

Deep enough

I am not far from Rogers's place in Switerland, and I am having a blast playing on clay. I get to hit with my old friends and coaches. It's a blast.
After the hitting, we often exchange the latest ideas in teaching-- and of course--what's currently wrong with Roger . The Swiss criticism is tough to hear sometimes. In one of the conversations, I mentioned the recent trend (last 3-4 years) from the pros of hitting short on purpose. Early on in the rallies, you see Fed and Nadal--and most of of the Spanish guys hitting balls just barely past the service line, and often right through the middle of the court. (there are lots of examples of this in the awesome patterns archive). These balls cannot be attacked, since they have lots of spin (probably in the high 3,000--5,000RPMs). Now, the reaction I got here to this statement, is that they are actually not aiming for the ball to land short, but are actually aiming for a deep ball!
I cannot believe that Roger and co. are not able to hit past the service line--for that many balls in a row. But what do you think? Have the Swiss here gone crazy?

Greetings from Switzerland.

Sometimes Nadal doesn't hit as deep as he is intending but it matters little against most players because of all the work he puts on the ball.

I don't believe this for one moment about Federer, whose forehand is entirely different to Nadal's. Federer hits deep and aggressively most of the time, doesn't he...not too many short ones that I've noticed?

[don_budge]

The Swiss and Hitting Short...

After the hitting, we often exchange the latest ideas in teaching-- and of course--what's currently wrong with Roger . The Swiss criticism is tough to hear sometimes.

In one of the conversations, I mentioned the recent trend (last 3-4 years) from the pros of hitting short on purpose.

These balls cannot be attacked, since they have lots of spin (probably in the high 3,000--5,000RPMs).

Now, the reaction I got here to this statement, is that they are actually not aiming for the ball to land short, but are actually aiming for a deep ball!
Have the Swiss here gone crazy?

Greetings from Switzerland.

Very interesting post giancario. Let’s break it down a bit and take it one thing at a time. OK?

What is currently wrong with Roger? Well it really doesn’t matter who it is that has hit the nail on the head does it? Whether it’s the Swiss? The French? Obama? don_budge? Roger is just running out of steam...out of juice. Plain and simple. The manner in which the game is played today...as in “modern tennis”, there isn’t the slightest sympathy for a guy who is getting up there in years and especially for a guy who has been around the world as many times as Roger has. He may have another “problem” that you and I will never understand...he may have too much money. Another thing is he is a father now and if you don’t think that changes everything...go and smoke another pipeful. There is nothing wrong with Federer per se...although I for one would like to see him playing with a different piece of equipment but the chance of that happening are about as good as monkeys flying out of Nadal’s butt. But you never know...the way he keeps picking at that thing there might be something in there that wants out!

The recent trend that you speak of is...is actually no trend at all. The dimensions of the court have always dictated that a sound tennis player should use all of the court and he should have in his repertoire shots that can be used effectively in every single spot of the court. I don't suppose anyone out there remembers what all-court tennis was. With Wimbledon approaching all you have to do is look at the wear patterns in the grass to see that most of the tennis is being played from the backcourt with both player pounding the ball with all of their might with ungodly amounts of topspin. There is wear and tear visible only on the baseline and about a meter behind the baseline. This kind of play is not conducive to playing short in the court unless they are playing the angles to open up the court for another smashing drive. There is very little subtle cat and mouse going on out there today. It used to be that the wear on a grass court would reflect the servers journey to the net and his first shot either to his right or his left. The wear pattern looked like a "T" from the baseline to the service line. The pattern of wear on the grass bears witness to this. It’s a crying shame in my book about tennis...you know the one about “Traditional Thoughts” but people today just don’t want to hear it.

As far as there being too much spin on the ball for them to be attacked...I am not dead certain that you are absolutely correct here. Although you may be. Certainly there is nobody out there today to prove you wrong. But I wonder if McEnroe believes wholeheartedly in this theory. I wonder about Connors. Gonzales.

This is the most interesting question of all as questions about culture can raise some fascinating discussions...that is if you are not afraid of being politically incorrect which is the kiss of death these days. But I have read some rather interesting articles about Swiss culture and the question may not be one of if they have gone crazy but if maybe they have always been this way. Just consider their stance on remaining neutral all of the time and what kind of implications that may have on you average Swiss Gustaf or Eva. The inability to take a definitive stance on anything would be quite debilitating to me. I have read of some sort of feeling of a “Stepford Wife” sensation when you enter the twilight zone of Swiss culture. To outsiders it can feel to be quite enigmatic. But I guess it is always like that if you are a foreigner. Keep in mind this is highly speculative and I for one am not advocating that this is the truth about the Swiss. It’s not my theory. Maybe Phil can shed some light on this.

[GeoffWilliams]

Fed is a master at hitting his forehand short cross court for the angle, to open things up, and to do it, he hits slower to make sure the ball does not go wide. Lots of pros hit short to lull an opp. into going for too big a shot and beat themselves. All the lull masters do that: murray, simon, etc. Once the angle is hit the full court is open unless the opp. does something with it, he has to dump it down the middle. Players like Gilbert used to gun it down the line when pulled out wide off a short angled cc shot. High risk=little reward for most of us.

Nadal hits short when playing the no miss game, and he will then open his fh up dtl off a short reply or a forced reply.

I've been practicing that shot off a ball machine. Short angled fh. Anything that makes your opp. run hard off the court is good.

[giancarlo]

Interesting responses from all of you--thank you. I would love to hear Craig O'Shannessy's opinion on this. Perhaps he could load the patterns into his system and run the analysis, and then we can also count the spin and get the MPHs from shot spot--to get a ball park number for how much spin and speed is required to get away with hitting just past the service line. For most of us without the pro arm, I just don't think it's an option, as our ball would present a very nice approach shot to our opponet. Ok. Let's get to work on this!

[GeoffWilliams]

Nadal gets hurt when he does it on hard courts or fast surfaces, if the ball is service line short down the middle. That's how a flat hitter like James Blake or Delpo beat him.

[giancarlo]

That's right. Good point. It's the same when they play on faster, low bouncing tennis courts during the indoor season.

[tennis_chiro]

Did you see how deep Rafa hit in the 4th set of the final?

I'm a little late on this one (4th day out, just got to about Cleveland, 2400 miles out), but didn't you guys see how deep Rafa hit in the 4th set with Djokovic. He had to do it and he coudn't pull it off in those 8 games he lost in a row. But he really hit deep with the rest overnight. Djoker couldn't push him back. Rafa didn't have to do this against anyone else he played at RG. But for just a few games he had no trouble keeping the ball deep.

don

[don_budge]

Go tennis_chiro!

I'm a little late on this one (4th day out, just got to about Cleveland, 2400 miles out), but didn't you guys see how deep Rafa hit in the 4th set with Djokovic. He had to do it and he coudn't pull it off in those 8 games he lost in a row. But he really hit deep with the rest overnight. Djoker couldn't push him back. Rafa didn't have to do this against anyone else he played at RG. But for just a few games he had no trouble keeping the ball deep.

don

So great to here from you on the road. I thought it would make for some great reality TV show...anything you care to share with us so far? Hmmm...

Hope you waved to bottle when you were driving by Detroit. Keep us posted.

[tennis_chiro]

Who are you all picking for Wimby?

So great to here from you on the road. I thought it would make for some great reality TV show...anything you care to share with us so far? Hmmm...

Hope you waved to bottle when you were driving by Detroit. Keep us posted.

Well, I made it. Actually, I got to about 40 miles short of NYC in under 100 hours from departure (4 nights). I'm trying to get settled into where I'll stay for the next 2 months, but I won't go in there until I come back from doing my 5-day clinic for 5 kids in CT beginning Sunday. Hopefully, I'll have some interesting before and after video from that clinic that I can post.

But no, don_budge, nothing worthy of reality TV on my drive. The one thing is it is a great reminder of how vast the USA is. And how much untapped potential there is here. If we really turned to taking advantage of the great things we have here and investing in making our resources productive, we would cut unemployment in half in no time and create an economy that would start to grow again. Unfortunately, I don't hear any strong voice trying to move the country in that direction. Just a lot of dissonant complaints.

Who is everyone picking for Wimbledon?

don

[stotty]

Who is everyone picking for Wimbledon?

don

In order of favourites:

1 Djokovic
2 Nadal
3 Murray
4 Federer
5 Me (well, if I were playing my chances would be the same as the remaining players)